Need teacher-Roland XP80/midi/finale/computer

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Patherzen

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Hi.. I live in the Ft. Lauderdale area and need a teacher (I can pay), to help me get rolling with varying needs. My goals are to
learn how to use the Roland XP80 to create songs, midi them into a Finale Program, edit as needed, learn how to create mp3 files, wav. files, burn CD's, take cassettes and make them into wav or mp3 files, etc. I am a quick learn but need an electronic musician
to get started. Please e-mail me. Thanks in advance...Patricia
 
Patricia, We're too far apart physically for getting together, but sometimes any help beats none. Roland products are generally notorius for crappy manuals, but their Video manuals actually help figure things out pretty well. I have an XP-50, which was the forerunner of your XP-80. Response to the 80 was much better than that of the 50, because the XP-80 was much more friendly (hearsay on my part) In fact, the 50 was so unfriendly they brought out the XP-60 to replace it, which is a shorter keyboard version of yours. If you don't already have it, I would recommend buying the Video Owners Manual for your XP-80. Here are the stores in your area that would be able to help you on that.

ABBA TRADING CORP
4622 N HIATUS RD
FORT LAUDERDALE, FL 33351
(954) 742-7400

MARS MUSIC #11 FLAU
5300 POWERLINE RD
FORT LAUDERDALE, FL 33309
(954) 938-7962

MUSIC ARTS ENTERPRIS
3301 DAVIE BLVD
FORT LAUDERDALE, FL 33312
(954) 581-2203

You mentioned Finale - again, I have no knowledge here except a general idea of capabilities. One thing you may find is that once you start working in a computer software program, you may give up entirely on doing sequences inside the XP-80. My MIDI software (Cakewalk/Sonar) really spoils you for speed of use, once you master the learning curve. However, I don't think I've seen any indication that Finale by itself will do all you mentioned you need to do. For example, cleanup and burning to CD of cassette tapes. If Finale doesn't do this, there are some of the general CD burning software that will do it. The newer versions of Easy CD Creator and possibly Nero Burning, have limited vinyl restoration algorhythms, which should allow hiss removal, and cost about $60 or so. Magix also offers some good inexpensive products that may help. If you want cleaner, and also want your wallet "cleaner", there are Sound Forge 6.0 (which may not have CD burning capability any more, not sure, since they stupidly removed their CD Architect product from the market) ;

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/

Here is a link to Soundchaser's digital audio offerings, most of the software I mentioned is availiable here for reasonable prices.

http://soundstore.holdit.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?category=13&x=2

You mentioned film work - if you want to do both film and sound on your computer, check out Vegas Video, also by sound forge.

Samplitude Studio, which is sold by Magix, is available from soundchaser.com - it has a pretty deep noise reduction function, which can sample the background noise between songs and get rid of anything like it during the song. Sound Forge can do this, but requires you to buy their separate Noise Reduction program. (Although, soundchaser.com has the previous version of Sound Forge bundled with noise reduction, etc. for $209.95. I also have Sound Forge in an earlier version, and it is fairly friendly as is Samplitude. Also, if you're composing, Sound Forge only does two tracks where Samplitude is unlimited. If you use Samplitude for multitracking, I would go for the more expensive Producer 2496. $500 at soundchaser.com. If your sure you won't be doing any multitracking, Samplitude Master is $280, here is a comparison of the three versions -

http://magixus.magix.net/magixII/e/home.nsf/contentview/D6AB62FAC323C59DC12569590053425B

Ignore the pricing, that page was just for info on the versions. I've been using Samplitude for the last 3-4 years, and it is the LAST program "they" will be able to "pry from my cold, dead fingers" - Translation - Does just about everything (except MIDI) and I really like it...

Here are some possibly helpful links to MIDI info -

http://www.midifarm.com/info/

http://www.studiocovers.com/articles10.htm

http://www.midi.com/

http://www.pc-music.com/

A good book on the subject is Craig Anderton's Midi for Musicians, available at Amazon.com.

I'm afraid I don't know anyone in your area that is knowledgable on this stuff, so if you get desperate, PM me on this bbs, and I'll try to help where I can. Hope this was helpful in some way... Steve
 
Thanks Knightfly

Knightfly: Wow... certainly wish you did live by Lauderdale...you are so knowledgable I can only envy you. I appreciate all your info and have made a copy of it to my e-mail for future reference. I think a teacher would cut my learning curve by 1000% and I will continue to hunt one down in my area. I will start by visiting the places you gave me and maybe some universities where they may be music students who are up on all this. Thanks again...you are a gem.... Patricia
 
You're very welcome...

Patricia, If you're going hunting in the Universities, see if you can get any recommendations from Ken Pohlmann - I don't know him, but I did recently buy the 4th edition of his book, Principles of Digital Audio - 738 pages of no-fluff, stuff you wish you never knew about digital audio - Ken is reportedly the head of one of the music departments at U of South Florida (or U of Florida, I forget, and naturally the book is at my office right now)

Anyway, Ken is obviously 'way too busy to get into a 1 on 1 situation right now, or else he's a witch in order to do all he does, but he may have some students that would be up for some tutoring. And, I agree your learning curve will be helped dramatically with live and local support.

BTW, thanks for the kind words - when you've been at this sort of thing as long as I have (if you should live that long) you would hope some of it would sink in... Steve
 
You're very welcome...

Patricia, If you're going hunting in the Universities, see if you can get any recommendations from Ken Pohlmann - I don't know him, but I did recently buy the 4th edition of his book, Principles of Digital Audio - 738 pages of no-fluff, stuff you wish you never knew about digital audio - Ken is reportedly the head of one of the music departments at U of South Florida (or U of Florida, I forget, and naturally the book is at my office right now)

Anyway, Ken is obviously 'way too busy to get into a 1 on 1 situation right now, or else he's a witch in order to do all he does, but he may have some students that would be up for some tutoring. And, I agree your learning curve will be helped dramatically with live and local support.

BTW, thanks for the kind words - when you've been at this sort of thing as long as I have (if you should live that long) you would hope some of it would sink in... Steve
 
Thanks Steve!

Steve: Yes.. I am burning the midnight oil. Received your reply and wrote down Ken Pohlmann. Such a shame that the great state of Florida is too great! Either University is about 3-5 hours away from me (around the corner down here!) The book sounds
excellent though. May check it out.
How did you get started in this electronic musician world? I have most of the equipment I need and now have the time and interest to pursue my goals... and thank God I am young enough to learn what I must!
But I do love a challenge and have a great idea for an on-line music business. One great need is convert an entire musical from audio cassettes back into a computer format (wav files or mp3 files) My brothers and I have a musical and Ed lost the floppy disks of 2 years worth of work (all the music). All I have is the sheet music and cassettes of the music. I have a software called CD Recording that says you can convert cassette tape into files....but I wonder if this approach really produces quality sound? I dread the thought of taking the sheet music or cassette tapes and having to redo this all over again. Can you scan sheet music into a computer and convert to wav files? Will it play back correctly? Is the audio quality decent if it was then burned onto CD?
Thanks in advance for more of your kind information. It is appreciated more than you know. All best wishes.. Patricia
 
You know for a technical genius, Knightfly sure makes a lot of double posts!:D

But seriously, the only point I would clear up is on Finale - Steve wasn't too clear on what it does and doesn't do - but as a Finale user for almost 15 years (since version 1.0!) I can say that it is an excellent program for doing professional level music copywork. But that is about all it does well.
As a professional copyist, I've used it for everything from simple lead sheets to full orchestral scores, with great results. But it's sequencer features are extremely primitive, as that's not really what it was designed for.

It's got kind of a hefty learning curve, but if preparing music copy is an important part of your overall goals, it may be worth learning. If on the other hand, your interests lie more in the recording/production end of the music business, it may not be a priority.
 
Re: Thanks Steve!

Patherzen said:

One great need is convert an entire musical from audio cassettes back into a computer format (wav files or mp3 files) My brothers and I have a musical and Ed lost the floppy disks of 2 years worth of work (all the music). All I have is the sheet music and cassettes of the music. I have a software called CD Recording that says you can convert cassette tape into files....but I wonder if this approach really produces quality sound? I dread the thought of taking the sheet music or cassette tapes and having to redo this all over again. Can you scan sheet music into a computer and convert to wav files? Will it play back correctly? Is the audio quality decent if it was then burned onto CD?
Click to expand...

This just came in while i was typing my other post!

What exactly was on the floppy disks that were lost? Was it the document files of the music in some notation program? Obviously it wasn't audio files, as they wouldn't fit on a floppy.

The good news is it is possible to scan printed music and convert it to midi or notation files on the computer. It will not be converted to wav or mp files, because it is not audio - just notation. However, once it is in a midi file, you could use it to play a synthesizer, for instance, and recreate some of the audio that way. Although, obviously, any vocals would have to be resung.

The drawback to this method is that the scanning software is still kind of rough - you have to do a lot of editing because a lot of stuff comes out wrong. It sometimes is almost faster just to re-enter the notes from scratch.

As far as cassette tapes go, you can always burn a CD of a cassette tape, but it may never sound much better than the original cassette, so you may not be gaining much, other than a more permanent and stable archival medium.
 
Hi Littledog

Littledog: Thank you for your reply! I suppose it would help if I further clarified my goals. One is as a composer. I own a Roland XP-80 (which I need to learn how to use- how's that for starters!!! LOL). I want to play the keyboard and have it notate into a software program (which I realize will require editing to perfect). My brother used to work with Finale and I realize for publishing quality sheet music that may be the most professional.
Is Cakewalk better if you want to midi for recording though?
I upgraded my computer to include a CDRW drive. My second goal is to start a website business. I would like to be able to convert all original music into files that can both be burned into CD's and also downloaded from a website I want to develop for business. All I need is a teacher to help me learn this process!!!
Do you compose orchestrations of music? My personal composing style is new age classical. I hear male and female voices conversing in my work.
I recently discovered Home Recording.com and feel I have found a home for my journey. The folks here are so very nice
and helpful. It is a great pleasure to meet you and thank you again for any help you can give me. All best wishes..Patricia
 
Getting closer...

Patricia - In order:
The Ken Pohlmann book may be too deep a water if you're just getting into this stuff - goes into things like clock jitter when clocked by external, pro/cons of the added jitter when the PLL is trying to lock to a better quality external clock, then in the second paragraph...
I got started, sort of thumbnail resume - piano @ age 5, trombone @ 12, organ @ 15, along with Baritone horn + Tuba, first band @ 15 consisted of piano/sax/drums, then guitar @ 19 when I learned that pianos didn't fit in duffel bags - drums @ 21 (drummer couldn't play a part, had to learn in order to teach him) hiatus while starting a family, then bass guitar @ 35, cello @ 37, first tape recorder @ 15, first multitrack (8) in '82, first synths in '81, (non-MIDI, still have 'em) , now have about 11 keyboards, 5 acoustic guitars, 6-7 electrics, 4 basses including 1 6-string fretless, 3 mixers (one digital)and several racks full of various processing gear, 2 trombones, 2 trumpets, sold the cello and immediately kicked myself; All this time, working in tech fields including service mgr of 3 different pro video and audio companies, test development for Memorex for 5 years, lately process control instrumentation tech for rare metals manufacturer, and always a composer... Sorry, you asked -

Now, for the important part - "Can you scan sheet music into a computer and convert to wav files? Will it play back correctly? Is the audio quality decent if it was then burned onto CD? "
There is a company called Musitek that puts out three different levels of software, one that just does two scores, called pianoscan - one that Converts scanned sheet music into MIDI files for playback, transposition, etc, and one called Smartscore, which is A complete scoring package with scanning features a la Midiscan - I cheated and used cut/paste for part of that, again at Soundchaser.com. here is the link to their page -

http://soundstore.holdit.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?category=34&x=2

Prices run from $64.95 up to $279.95. I've not used any of their software, all I know is that it's been around for several years.
Once you were to use this software, you would end up with MIDI files of the sheet music, which would let you pick whatever sounds you wanted your sequencer (XP-80, whatever) to play. The output of the synth could then be input to a computer sound card (preferably pretty good quality) and recorded as wav files.

There is supposedly another way to accomplish this, using Finale and another program. I'm not sure how the other program decides which piano sound would be used to play the piano parts, but here's a link to Coda's support pages on the subject -

http://www.codamusic.com/coda/faq_d...ord+the+music+from+my+Finale+files+onto+a+CD?

Awave Studio sounds like maybe all you would need, in conjunction with Finale - It's only $100, and you can download a free demo. Just go to this site and click on Awave audio, the top item on the left sidebar.

http://www.fmjsoft.com/

What little experience I've had with notation programs, I think you may still need to input the MIDI files into another program, such as Sonar or Cubase or Logic, and tweak the notes in that program before playing it back to convert from MIDI to wav. The resulting audio quality will depend a lot on the quality of the sound card/sound source/recording software. You could conceivably get anything from "shakey but acceptable" up to "wow, I didn't know it could do that" - You say you have all or almost all the gear you need. If you want, let me know what you do have, exactly, including company names, software exact titles and versions, and if there is anything else you want to be able to do with it other than the project you mentioned. I'll then see what suggestions I can make that will get you there, and what it would cost. (It wouldn't hurt to know approximately what kind of budget you were looking at, to the nearest $100 or so, and an example of the quality you're looking for) This last part may take more time, as I have a schedule that's different from almost anyone else I know. Check out some of this info and get back - sounds like we've got this turkey on the run... Steve
 
Wow Steve: You said a mouthful!

Steve: You are lightyears beyond my technical know how. But that is great because I will really have to roll up my sleeves with these projects! Do you think it would be easier to have a professional take the musical audio cassettes and sheet music and convert them into a file that would be downloadable on the internet? The learning curve seems enormous if my needs are more immediate (to start a busniess) though I can chug along at a slower pace for new stuff going foward.
I just had my computer upgraded but need to reinstall some software that I own: Soundblaster awe 32, Digital CD Recording Studio, Quad Studio by Turtle Beach (4 track). I also had a CDRW 16x12x40 installed. The computer guy also reinstalled an old version of Finale 2.0.1 which no longer runs on windows 98..hence I need to decide if I should pay Coda to upgrade or go with a different notation program like Cakewalk.
I do not own a scanner. I have an epson laser printer.
I can afford to do what is necessary as long as I am convinced
I am doing the right thing. I will check out the info you last gave me and respond back.
My bio... came from a musical family.. piano started about age 9.
Continued playing in a band in college and composing..but realized my real talent is in composing. I am not a performing artist. Hold an M.Ed.,taught p.e. and piano, raised a family, kids now in college, hubby died, so I am free to pursue my musical dreams once again. I am a member of the Composers Guild of NJ though I now live in the Ft. Lauderdale area. You are so generous with your time and knowledge. It is refreshing to know kindness still exists.
Thank you again... more soon... all best... Patricia
 
Littledog... good afternoon!

Littledog: I just printed out all the replies from last night (morning?) and noticed your "just in" reply. Hmmm ... it makes it clearer to me that I do have a whopping problem on my hands.
I used an Ensonique (borrowed in those years from school) to play the musical score while by brother Ed used Finale on his computer to midi in the sound files. He then edited each note and added orchestration as needed. As I say...it took 2 years to complete this project. He then left the music business, moved several times, and cannot find the original floppies. He put all the music onto cassettes which I used for a high school production of our musical (no orchestra). It is now 10 years later and I have the time to pursue an idea I have had for years re: an on-line music business. I want to get the musical back to whatever type of file is needed to become downloadable..both in text (say sheetmusic) and as audio... ??? for anyone on a computer wanting to use our work. I only possess the actual cassettes, sheet music and libretto. Time is a problem to redo all.
I thought I could learn enough to do this all by myself but now realize it may take me years to acquire the know how.. unless I have a teacher or pay someone to do it. Of course... I still want to learn and have the rest of my life to do so. I just want to launch a business off the ground sooner than later.
Gee... I can't thank you enough for all this quality input into a
problem that isn't even yours! You are a wonderful person and this website is lucky to have you aboard. So am I!!! Patricia
 
Patricia, I hate to say it but without the original midi files or rerecording the parts into a sequencer you are not going to be able to print a score, create a midi file or redo the music.

Since you have the original score you could just scan it and put it up as PDF files.

You will be able to put the original casette versions as MP3's on the net but if you want to redo the recordings the you are back to the same problem as before.

There is no easy way to convert complex music to a midi file. You will really need to redo all the music and midi if you want the 'data' to work with.
 
TexRoadKill

Hi! Just finally got to read your reply. Site has been down all day.
Your reply was my worst nightware. I have been hoping there was a way out of redoing all the music to a 2 hour musical to recreate the lost midi files. My brother bought a software called Digital CD Recording Studio and gave it to me. It says you can record from any source- even records and tapes...it is compatible with analog and digital sources and converts all sources to 16 bit digital files:
CD's, MP3, MIDI, and wav files.
Does this mean if I used this software, it would not create from the original musical cassettes the files needed for others to download "playable" music, or sheetmusic?
Now don't be afraid to tell me the truth...I have a bullet here to bite on!!! LOL Thanks in advance... Patricia
 
Don't panic...

Hey Patricia - If your scores are scannable (clean, never been through a mudslide, etc) there is probably a way to accomplish your goal. I will be pretty scarce for the next 3-4 days due to heavy schedule, just in case you didn't get my email. This site was totally strangled last night, I think they need to expand their server capabilities.
What I need you to do is let me know what condition your scores are in, and if you think they would scan OK, then there appears to be a way. May not even be too technical to get done in a reasonable time frame. I also need to know as much about your computer hardware/operating system as you can tell me. I don't need info on other software, sounds like it's too outdated for the most part. Gotta run, doing 12-hour shifts the next 4 days.

If this site is going to be useless due to traffic, maybe we should PM our email addresses and continue this offline... Steve
 
Knightfly: Check your e-mail!

Since this site has been difficult to access...I wrote you a response via e-mail. What do you mean PM our e-mails? I have AOL but see you have compuserve. As always... thank you soooooooo.....
More soon... Patricia
 
HI again:

To PM someone, just click on the button that says "PM" at the bottom of one of their posts.

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings (that should be Blue Bear's job) but here is the real problem as I see it:

Let's assume you have good clean printed scores.
Let's assume you have a scanner.
Let's assume you have the right software.

What does that give you, in a "best case' scenario? It lets you create midi files (although not as easily and as error free as you might like).

Now you have to find sounds in a synthesizer or sampler that correspond closely to the original sounds. This assumes, of course that the sheet music is in "full score" form, showing the full orchestration: written out bass lines, string parts, etc. Certainly a lead sheet won't generate this information. And what about drum parts? It's rare that they are written out in a way that can be converted into a useable midi file.

But even assuming you solve all of the above problems, the result will not resemble the original performance for a number of reasons:

Sheet music generated from a performance quantizes or rounds off all the rhythmic values to the nearest possible subdivision of time (i.e. sixteenth note or eigth triplet etc.) If you use that music to generate a midi file, you will get a totally rigid (100% quantized) playback, which will sound very mechanical. Any subtle tempo changes (rubato), articulations of notes, dynamics, and other playing variations that make the performance sound "human" will be lost.

Painful as it sounds, trying to regenerate the original music will require a degree of expense and time that might as well be spent just rerecording from scratch which should give a far superior result. There are people who can create wonderful and realistic midi orchestrations who can work very quickly. Your best bet is probably to take your sheet music to them and let them start from scratch.
 
I would have to agree with Littledog. I've wasted many an hour looking for shortcuts, only to find that my time would have been better spent doing it the "right" way.

The program that you were referring to that can change audio (from cassettes) into MIDI / notation, is undoubtedly similar to the same function that Finale has. The technology exists for a computer program to recognize single-note audio, but not for complex audio (like Tex said). Typically this is helpful for basic melody lines, saxophones, (sometimes) the human voice, and other single-note instruments that are isolated on the recording.

Don't give up on it though. Once you get the hang of it, it might not be as bad as you thing to re-create it.

Best of luck :D
 
littledog and seanmorse

littledog and seanmorse: Your replies are sinking in though knightfly has an idea he will run by me. Had another sleepless night fretting over this. I think when I go to NJ in July I will talk this over with my bros. Looks like the work will have to be redone. Would you have any idea how much it would cost to hire someone to play all the sheetmusic for a musical that is lightly orchestrated to create downloadable files for a website?
Will I have to retype the libretto and lyrics? I don't have a scanner but guess I could buy one if need be. Any suggestion on which one (all in 1-fax,copy,scan?) - Ebay?
Oh and thanks for your continued help. I am digesting this site and have discovered the "PM" now. I also updated my buddy list but cannot figure out how to put the same person as an on-line and off-line listing. All best wishes... Patricia
 
...wish I could help with hiring someone - I wouldn't even know where to begin, except maybe to look into college student music majors. I know plenty of capable folk, but none that would want to take on a big project (I know, don't we all).

I would stay away from multi-function printer/scanners though - they're a pain more times than not. You don't need a state-of-the-art scanner for what you're doing - a midrange cheapie ($75 new) would do nicely (get one with a USB connection if possible - not parallel - they're too slow).
 
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