Need some direction

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db_loser

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Hello.

So I'm another one of those "where do I go from here" people who are a little (a lot) confused on how to setup a simple but effective home recording setup.

I'll start off with what I would like to do, then I'll share the gear I already have, and then hopefully someone can give some opinions on how to make it all work.

Basically I would like to create electronic music. I am a musician (play bass and keys)... Some of our influences include Arcade Fire, Talking Heads, Sonic Youth, Yeah Yeah Yeahs), you get the idea... For that, all I'm looking to do is load the recorded song (1 track including all instruments) and simply cleanup the sound. We got one of those small recorder home studio things, the sound is surprisingly great.

Onto the stuff I'd like to do on my own. I really enjoy electronic music, synths, analog and digital. It can range from Radiohead, NIN, Daft Punk, Chem. Bros, Kraftwerk, Massive Attack, 80s synths, etcetc. So what I would love to do is to have a home recording setup where I can mess around with different beats, add some synths, some bass, and for my own personal pleasure, try to come up with something decent.

As for gear:

I have a brand spanking new computer (PC) that will mostly be dedicated for music. 4 Gb ram running at 1066, quadcore, and lots of space. I haven't purchased a soundcard yet, not knowing what I should go for. Right now I got a logitech 2.1 speaker setup connected to the internal soundcard (which has 7.1, but I'm not looking for the whole home theatre setup)... These speakers do sound great, even at high levels.

I have a:
- Korg DSS-1 that I would love to connect to the PC thru Midi.

- Drum Machine (Korg something or other.. One of those synth/drum machines... Not the higher end models.. Maybe worth about 250)

- A bass, (fender Jazz)

- Guitar (jazzmaster, Strat)

- bunch of pedals.


What I would love from you guys is if you can guide me in the right direction on how to make everything work.

I'm thinking of getting a small Rolland cube for the bass... I'm thinking I'll need a soundcard with Midi input for the synth, I'll prob. need a mixer for any external sound (guitar, bass, mic,) but I don't know where to start looking...

This is a passtime for me, and I can't spend thousands ...

Can anyone help out on how to setup a small recording studio that will make everything work together?

Do I need an external soundcard? Is a mixer necessary? How do I connect both the synth and drum machine thru Midi? What software should I use to run everything?

As you can see, I'm very confused...lol . .

I'd appreciate any info you guys can share..

Thank you,
 
I am in no way able to offer advice, as I am a noob, but I came across this thread last night, and there are a couple of really long posts that do an awesome job of expaining the basics.

I'm sure that there are many helpful people here who will chime in, but for now it will get you started and I found it very helpful.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=311394
 
Sounds like all you really need is an interface. You don't need a mixer, most audio interfaces come with mixing software. You can get them with MIDI or you can buy a separate MIDI box. What kind of budget? Most come with a DAW program so that may also be a consideration or you can get something like reaper which is only about $50 (free if you want to put up with a nag screen).

SPeakers may be a bit of an issue. If you use the internal sound card and an interface at the same tim your going to have lag. If possible you want to monitor through the interface. So you could either buy studio monitors to connect to an inteface or use headphones. Or maybe connect your computer speakers to the phones jack on the interface.

Here's a good link that tells you everything you need to know about interfaces...
http://www.tweakheadz.com/audio_interfaces_1.htm

Just to get you thinking here's a couple that might do the trick for you....
http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=53

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackPro.html
 
TetraFish said:
Sounds like all you really need is an interface. You don't need a mixer, most audio interfaces come with mixing software. You can get them with MIDI or you can buy a separate MIDI box. What kind of budget? Most come with a DAW program so that may also be a consideration or you can get something like reaper which is only about $50 (free if you want to put up with a nag screen).

SPeakers may be a bit of an issue. If you use the internal sound card and an interface at the same tim your going to have lag. If possible you want to monitor through the interface. So you could either buy studio monitors to connect to an inteface or use headphones. Or maybe connect your computer speakers to the phones jack on the interface.

Here's a good link that tells you everything you need to know about interfaces...
http://www.tweakheadz.com/audio_interfaces_1.htm

Just to get you thinking here's a couple that might do the trick for you....
http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=53

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackPro.html
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the info.

OK, to try to understand this... If I go with the m-audio, this means that it'll come with a copy of pro-tools? If not protools, I'm assuing the appelton live is the program which will allow me to work on a project?

The main things (midi) I would like to connect to the interface are my keyboard and my drum machine. Seeing how there is only 1 midi in and out, that means I'll be able to only record one instrument at a time right? (excuse my ignorange)...


Basically with this unit I'll be able to record live instruments using mics that will be connected to the m-audio, and it has the midi port for midi capable instruments.. The software will work together with the interface and everything should work?

Cause if that's the case, I'd be happy with that as a starting point.
 
db_loser said:
The main things (midi) I would like to connect to the interface are my keyboard and my drum machine. Seeing how there is only 1 midi in and out, that means I'll be able to only record one instrument at a time right? (excuse my ignorange)...
Click to expand...

Yes. But there are products like this...

http://www.philrees.co.uk/products/selector.htm

To avoid having to switch plugs in and out.

I think that's also the function of the MIDI Thru port? Not 100% sure.

Oh and...you don't record any audio through MIDI, just the performance data. Just an FYI.
 
db_loser said:
Thank you very much for the info.

OK, to try to understand this... If I go with the m-audio, this means that it'll come with a copy of pro-tools? If not protools, I'm assuing the appelton live is the program which will allow me to work on a project?
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe it comes with appleton live. You can always get reaper if you don't like it

db_loser said:
The main things (midi) I would like to connect to the interface are my keyboard and my drum machine. Seeing how there is only 1 midi in and out, that means I'll be able to only record one instrument at a time right? (excuse my ignorange)...
Click to expand...

Yes, you could also buy a MIDI interface like this.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MIDISPORT2x2.html

db_loser said:
Basically with this unit I'll be able to record live instruments using mics that will be connected to the m-audio, and it has the midi port for midi capable instruments.. The software will work together with the interface and everything should work?

Cause if that's the case, I'd be happy with that as a starting point.
Click to expand...

Well that's the idea, you'll find that trouble shooting is a valuable skill in the home studio.

And just to reiterate what funkdaddy said. You are only recording MIDI data when you use the MIDI ports. So you either have to use VST instruments or send the data back to the device it was created with and then record the audio.

For example: If you had a guy with v-drums and you just record the MIDI data you could go in and fix any flubs in the MIDI track and then send that data back to the v-drums and record the audio. Or you could use the same MIDI data to play a VST instrument like EZ-Drummer. It's still a good option but takes an extra step to get the audio file recorded.
 
Well the question I have is what do you need the synth hooked up to MIDI for? You would hook the keyboard with MIDI if your looking to use it as a controller for a VST instrument or slave off of the drum machine.

Basically you can look into fruity loops (flstudio) or something like reason for software instruments and ability to make drum loops. You can just run audio from the synth and record it to the daw.

The drum machine is a bit more difficult. Most have a little sequencer in there and different channels for different instruments. This is where the MIDI will lead you. Your going to use the MIDI for timecode (the daw controls the tempo) and record the audio from the drum machine. Wont go to much into it because I dont know which drum machine you have but just a little info on it.

Basically all you need is a interface with MIDI. Maybe 2 inputs and just figure how to work the cables. I dont think a mixer is needed at all though.
 
stealth_prod said:
Well the question I have is what do you need the synth hooked up to MIDI for? You would hook the keyboard with MIDI if your looking to use it as a controller for a VST instrument or slave off of the drum machine.
Click to expand...

Can only speak for myself, but when I'm working on instrumental stuff it's usually all through my keyboard. I like to record the MIDI, even if I'm using a sound patch in my Fantom, so I can edit the performance if need be. A great track of a complex part can be ruined by one off note if I'm recording audio, but with MIDI I can go in, fix the one sour note and be left with my otherwise great performance. I can also change the key, tempo, etc of the song in a flash.
 
I might be way behind on this, because I haven't worked with MIDI for years. But, don't most MIDI instruments have a MIDI "THROUGH"? Can't he somehow use that to be able to use one MIDI input on his interface?

db_loser said:
(excuse my ignorange)...
Click to expand...

I have nothing against un-educated citrus fruit.
 
Yeah I use the MIDI through to slave my keyboard to my software controller. It basically gives me an extension of the original controller. I havent tried it myself but im pretty sure recording the keyboard audio with the MIDI timecode could be done the same as directly connected.

@funk daddy
I understand what your getting at, but when your using the fantom, your still recording its audio. MIDI is only information and absolutely no audio. So you can use MIDI to "control" a virtual instrument, or to control hardware from the daw/program to sync up the tempo. When I make a beat/song with my triton, I then use MIDI and protools and set the tempo. Connect the mono out of the keyboard to the interface. Then I use protools to tell the keyboard to play and record the audio.

Just to clarify that MIDI is NOT audio.
 
stealth_prod said:
@funk daddy
I understand what your getting at, but when your using the fantom, your still recording its audio. MIDI is only information and absolutely no audio. So you can use MIDI to "control" a virtual instrument, or to control hardware from the daw/program to sync up the tempo. When I make a beat/song with my triton, I then use MIDI and protools and set the tempo. Connect the mono out of the keyboard to the interface. Then I use protools to tell the keyboard to play and record the audio.

Just to clarify that MIDI is NOT audio.
Click to expand...

That's what I said in my first reply in this thread, MIDI isn't audio.

I meant even when I'm using a sound patch on my Fantom, I record the MIDI and then drive the Fantom with the MIDI from my DAW. I usually save the MIDI even after I've recorded the audio, in case I change the key later on.
 
Thanks for the replies/clarification.

Main reason I want to use midi is because it can be manipulated.

I guess I'll do without the mixer.


What I have planned is to get a:

- Cube 30 for bass
- decent mic (any recommendations?)
- maudio pro (about 250$ or so... any others you guys would recommend?)
- software... (no idea what to go with)


for the speakers.... So in order for this to work using the logitec speakers I already have, I'll have to run the speakers through the computer and not through the interface, which can cause some lag, right? I can't really afford studio monitors anytime soon, so I'm hoping this will work!...
 
Almost forgot!

Sequencers.. The DSS-1 doesn't come with one.. Can you guys suggest one?

I heard there are software sequencers.. Is it worth going that route or should I look for hardware that will work with the DSS-1?
 
A lot of DAW programs let you create MIDI tracks so they are acting as your sequencer.

For your speaker set up you could connect your PC speakers to the headphone jack on your interface. PC speakers are far from optimal but if you don't have a choice that's what I would do. Try and forget your onboard sound card even exists.
 
db_loser said:
Almost forgot!

Sequencers.. The DSS-1 doesn't come with one.. Can you guys suggest one?

I heard there are software sequencers.. Is it worth going that route or should I look for hardware that will work with the DSS-1?
Click to expand...

Hi.

Reaper. Its the best DAW and the midi is top notch. Once you start using the glue function and free item positioning you will be hooked.


For your audio interface, why not check out the Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1. It has midi in/out and comes with a sampled Grand Piano and guitar amp simulator software ( very nice sim ).

Maybe download the FREE Komplete Players 7 to get a taste of Native Instruments sounds and GUI.
 
TetraFish said:
A lot of DAW programs let you create MIDI tracks so they are acting as your sequencer.

For your speaker set up you could connect your PC speakers to the headphone jack on your interface. PC speakers are far from optimal but if you don't have a choice that's what I would do. Try and forget your onboard sound card even exists.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

I'm pretty sure I'll be using headphones most of the time, so I don't really need quality studio speakers just yet...

I was going to spend quite a few $$ on a soundcard.. Fortunately I came here first.
 
CFox said:
Hi.

Reaper. Its the best DAW and the midi is top notch. Once you start using the glue function and free item positioning you will be hooked.


For your audio interface, why not check out the Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1. It has midi in/out and comes with a sampled Grand Piano and guitar amp simulator software ( very nice sim ).

Maybe download the FREE Komplete Players 7 to get a taste of Native Instruments sounds and GUI.
Click to expand...

Sounds good, man.. Thanks for the info... That reaper program looks interesting.

I'll read up on it and see how it goes.

I found the Audio Kontrol on Craigslist for 150 Can. I might pick it up...
 
db_loser said:
Sounds good, man.. Thanks for the info... That reaper program looks interesting.

I'll read up on it and see how it goes.

I found the Audio Kontrol on Craigslist for 150 Can. I might pick it up...
Click to expand...

Maybe better to get it direct from the site, that way you get all the vouchers and you have recourse should something go wrong. Their price includes free shipping. :)
 
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