Need Some Advice ~ solo classical guitar recording ~

[quixilver]

Hi,
I have been recently helping my father’s interest to make a solo classical-guitar album. Unlike the common solo classical-guitar recording which contains only classical songs, this album will contains many kinds of music style. Still they are included but just a few. There are many kinds of genre here, including Jazz, Pop, Flamenco, Country, R&B, and more. But still in solo classical-guitar playing. I just want to get a recording that would be good enough to be a commercial CDs, because it will to be sold in his live concert.

My recording application will be exclusively applied to a single acoustic instrument, that is a classical nylon-string guitar. And I don't need any special effects like a new-age music. What I only need is just a smooth and clear sound of a guitar.

Here is a list of my current equipments. They are really far away of high-class recording equipment, but for a moment I use them to save money because I don't have a great amount budget for this project.
1. PC with Cakewalk Sonar 3 Producer Edition.
2. M-Audio Firewire 410.
3. Belden cables with Amphenol connectors.
4. Rode NT3.

When I connect the Rode NT3 directly to the M-Audio FW410 and turn on the gain, I read the record meter level in Sonar shows -60 dB. It will increased if I add more gain and vice versa.
FYI, the microphone is placed about 8-10 inches from the guitar.
Does it mean that I have some 30 dB of "noise floor" and I have <60 dB of headroom before it reach the peak ? Because the lowest level of the record meter is in 90 dB.
Is it a normal condition or there's something wrong ? I'm thinking there's must be something wrong.
Is there is anything I can do to make the noise floor lower than this ?

I've called few friends that have some knowledge in this kind of job, and they told me that the gain is too much so it makes the noise floor appear. This answer is very confusing. How can I increase the gain without increasing the noise ?

Hopefully someone can give some advice about this, it will be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

Michael.

 

[mshilarious]

When I connect the Rode NT3 directly to the M-Audio FW410 and turn on the gain, I read the record meter level in Sonar shows -60 dB. It will increased if I add more gain and vice versa.
FYI, the microphone is placed about 8-10 inches from the guitar.
Does it mean that I have some 30 dB of "noise floor" and I have <60 dB of headroom before it reach the peak ? Because the lowest level of the record meter is in 90 dB.
Is it a normal condition or there's something wrong ? I'm thinking there's must be something wrong.
Is there is anything I can do to make the noise floor lower than this ?

I've called few friends that have some knowledge in this kind of job, and they told me that the gain is too much so it makes the noise floor appear. This answer is very confusing. How can I increase the gain without increasing the noise ?

First off your mic is too close to the guitar. Try 2-3' away. Experiment with placement--more towards the 12th fret gives less boom, more towards the bottom of the soundboard gives warmth.

Second, what room are you recording in? Is the mic simply picking up room noise (vents, hum from computer, etc.) Is it a good sounding room?

Finally when you say level is -60dB, I presume that is without the guitar playing. Is that what you get with the gain on minimum, or some random setting? Quiet down the room, play the guitar at maximum volume (a good string pop should do the trick), set your gain so loudest guitar part is -3dB, then see what the noise floor is.

 

[quixilver]

First off your mic is too close to the guitar. Try 2-3' away. Experiment with placement--more towards the 12th fret gives less boom, more towards the bottom of the soundboard gives warmth.

I've tried it with 1½ - 2' but can't goes any further without lossing volume. The sound is much better but once again the volume is decreased. And I think it's impossible to take more than 60% of gain without getting the noise louder

Second, what room are you recording in? Is the mic simply picking up room noise (vents, hum from computer, etc.) Is it a good sounding room?

I'm using my "unused" bedroom. What's the meaning of "good sounding room" ?
My computer is in the same room, but is it a real big deal ?

Finally when you say level is -60dB, I presume that is without the guitar playing. Is that what you get with the gain on minimum, or some random setting? Quiet down the room, play the guitar at maximum volume (a good string pop should do the trick), set your gain so loudest guitar part is -3dB, then see what the noise floor is.

Yes, u're 100% right, it's just 60% of gain.
It has -84.4dB without any gain. Is it a problem ?
I'll keep the loudest part in -6dB for safe. And the noise floor is very audible.

Thanks.

 

[mshilarious]

Yes, u're 100% right, it's just 60% of gain.
It has -84.4dB without any gain. Is it a problem ?
I'll keep the loudest part in -6dB for safe. And the noise floor is very audible.

Yes, I have to believe that PC noise is a big part of the problem. The maximum level of your guitar is probably 90dB or so, and I bet the PC is at least 30dB. Thus if you set the maximum level of the guitar at 0dB, then you'll have noise at around -66dB (slightly less due to mic position).

The Rode is a condenser mic, those are very sensitive, and will easily pick up computer noise. Another thing working against you is the mic is hypercardioid, which means that it has some response to the rear of the mic. So even if you turn the mic away from the PC, you can still have problems (ideally you should turn it about 120 degrees away from the PC).

Try to quiet down the PC to see if that helps. Throw some heavy blankets over it (just for a few seconds!!!) and check the noise. If it drops, that's your problem. Or try a different technique--put the mic in a very quiet place (closet covered with clothes or pillows), and see how loud the noise is.

If the PC is the problem, the solution is to properly quiet your PC (quiet fans, quiet PSU, damping material, maybe even HD enclosures, or put the PC in a closet or another room entirely.

If you still have a lot of noise, then there is some equipment problem. Borrow a different mic. Try a different cable. Try your mic with somebody else's preamp. You gotta isolate each piece of gear until you find the problem.

Regarding your spare bedroom, no, that is probably not a good sounding room. If you don't have a good room, the best approach is usually to treat the room or a small part of the room (curtains, blankets, foam, rigid insulation) and then add reverb as an effect.

 

[ecktronic]

I have found that when recording in a bedroom style room, (unless very lucky to have good acoustics in the room) it is best to close mic the acoustic guitar. The sound will not be very airy or have as much spaceial feel. But it is a way of getting a desent recording without much noise (if you have sorted your original noise problem out.)
I think between the twelth fret and the hole is a good place to start with your mic placement. Right at the hole can sometimes give too much boom depending on th guitar and playing style. But classical guitar is quite a light sound usually right? If you could get a cable to reach into another room that would be good to try out different acoustics if you want to have mic placement a bit further.
Here is a song i recorded using very close micing. As close as possible really. about 2-4 cm! with a really bad mic which cost around £15! or $20. It was in my bedroom next to a main road! so i had to use close micing. I used my BR1180 and i think i have got pretty good results considering.
LINK BELOW

 

[ecktronic]

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/archamediesmusic.htm

The song is called "SO DISTANT"