Need skills... help

[MrStitch]

Not really a recording issue (right now), but more along the lines of "I suck and I know it"

For my band, I'm the only guitar player. I can play the hell out of any riff given to me. However, when it's time for a lead solo, I totally suck on every possible level. I think I spent way too much time pissing around with being heavy =)

So here's the deal...... Our band has a few originals worked up, and I have some really good IDEA'S for leads. I can hear 'em in my head, but they completely fall apart when applied to the fret board. Obviously I just need more practice.

Every instructor I've talked to said the same thing "You know all the basics to playing, rather well... you just need to practice your scales"

Problem is, if I play a scale, I don't know if i'm playing it in the right time, so I cant' tell if what i'm doing is correct.

I would like to pick a song with a good lead solo in it, that way I can hear what it should sound like.... but I really don't want to get over my head.

So... should I really stick with the scales, even if I don't know what they really sound like.... or should I get a good song to practice too?

Any song ideas?

 

[TeleMasters]

Keep practicing your scales is never a bad thing. It sounds like you just need some experience under your belt. Just keep on truckin!

 

[guitarjesus]

First thing you need to know is the notes on the finger board in all positions. Practice your scales in all positions in every key the major, minor, blues scales.


I am not going to lie to you. This takes years to master. I mean to not get lost in a solo. Playing chords and rhythum is one thing but to master solo's and play solo's like say Joe Satriani, Eddie Van Halen takes years and years. Believe me these guys practice their shit every day for hours. Because once you get the hang of it it is addictive and you will want to keep practicing.

 

[guitarjesus]

What I do is listen to the radio, and play solo's to a song. Jazz songs are good to play solo's to. When you hear a song you should find the key it is in right away. If you can't do this then you need practice with your music ear.

 

[Scottgman]

When I am writing a guitar solo over for a particular chord progression, the first thing I do is figure out what key the chord progression is in. Next, I print a picture of fretboard with every note in that key. I lift mine from this site:

www.guitarbasics.com

You can just copy the fretboard (he has all the keys written out for you already) and paste it into Notepad or some other text editor.

This accomplishes two things:

1. I don't have to worry so much about "finger patterns" for the scales, which can sound very academic and boring.

2. I'm not wandering around the fret board blindly.

From there, it's just a matter of playing around and letting the creative juices flow.

Of course, when writing any solo, you should have the underlying chord progression recorded so you can replay the progression as often as you need while sussing out the solo.

This method has worked well for me personally, something about seeing all the notes on paper helps to organize my ideas so I can be creative without worrying about whether a note is out of key or not.

 

[JR#97]

What worked for me was to learn a scale.. or at least a few positions of the scale, and then apply those to a song. I'm a huge a Randy Rhodes fan and his stuff was very educational. He plays a lot of classical type lines that are easy to learn/play and very easy to relate to the scales they come from.

 

[BlindCowboy]

Any person learning to solo, or educated and wanting a good reference, should check out:

www.looknohands.com

In my opinion, one of the best sites on the web for scales, chords, patterns, etc...

As for soloing, I recorded a 12 bar blues progression, stepping up every run. So, 12 in E, 12 in F, 12 in F#, etc...

It's a nice length recording, at a comfortable pace (85bpm). That was my favorite practice tool. I'd put the CD player on random, and as the progression started, i'd have to pick out what key it was in, and then solo on top of it. Didn't take me long. Recorded it in an hour. Still use that to this day.

Blind Cowboy...

 

[lotuscent]

when you practice your scales, remember technique! If you play a lot of power chords and boxy riffs (sabbath, zep. most classic rock and metal) you may have a tendency to play flat fingered and favoring the index side of your hand. Watch your left hand play a scale - does your pinky swing a lot compared to your index? Does your index finger more or less pivot or hinge on the neck? If so, try to balance your hand more by moving the thumb closer to the middle of your finger span... does this make sense?

When you practice scales remember your pinky is just as important as your index... if you play with your guitar low, this will be difficult - ever notice how the shredders of the 80's all played with their necks high? It's a classical technique influence, and it works. Jimmy Page played by his knees, and I love Zep, but his playing was sloppy as hell when he was standing.

Good scales to begin with are pentatonics - every mode contains a major or minor pentatomic scale. Once you can play these fluently. you can play easily 80% of what you hear in rock guitar - then add a blue note (flat 5). If you feel good phrasing with these, check out minor and dorian patterns - all you do is simply add a few notes to the pentatonics you already know. Then just keep going...

Most rock tunes don't modulate, that is they don't change keys. Put on yur favorite tunes and find the key and rip with them.
Good luck.

 

[guitarjesus]

lotuscent

Yes, I agree. But look out for Jeff Beck, Joe Satriani they change keys in their songs a lot.

 

[Mr. Moon]

Use a metronome!!

Dude, do what everyone has suggested up to this point in this thread, as there are some great suggestions for you....

Another thing you *HAVE* to do is pull out your trusty $20.00 metronome (buy one of you don't have one, now!) and play along with that for a few hours, or at least an hour daily. This will help you develop "solo" timing; the ability to solo in time with the rhythm section while at the same time developing "interesting" and "monster" phrasing, rather than just running scales up and down the fretboard, which gets old fast!

Start with chromatic finger excersizes to warm up properly, then run through your scales slowly, and increase the speed on the metronome once you've mastered a scale at a certain speed. Try to get consistent results so it sounds like a fluid motion of notes rather than 3 or 4 note "chunks". Start playing around with melodies that you create on the spot....

Once you get a feel for the whole "soloing" thing, record your chord progression, or the entire song, and play along with it. Maybe start by just breaking down the chords and plucking the chord's notes one at a time, and then go from there. Use your ears and heart, if you'r pissed off, get angry and express the anger through your guitar. For me the guitar is an extension of my heart and soul, rather than my c#ck...

Good luck!

-Mr. Moon

 

[64Firebird]

When I solo I don't really use scales. I focus on the intervals and how they will sound.

Here's an example in the key of A:

Bar 1 over A7 chord

E|-----------------5-------------------------------------|
A|------------5--------8---5-----------------------------|
D|----7(B)----------------------5(H)6--------------------|
G|-------------------------------------------------------|
B|-------------------------------------------------------|
E|-------------------------------------------------------|

In that lick I end on the Major 3rd of the A7 chord.

Bar 2 over D7

E|-------------------5-----------------------------------|
A|--------------5--------8---5---------------------------|
D|-----7(B)-----------------------4(H)5------------------|
G|-------------------------------------------------------|
B|-------------------------------------------------------|
E|-------------------------------------------------------|

This time I played the same thing but I end on the 7th of the D7 chord. Get it?

If you stay focused on the notes of the chord you can play almost anything just end up on one of those chord notes.

 

[mekkab]

Scales scales scales- know what you can play anywhere on the fret board. (start with a simple pentatonic box!)

Then once you've mastered that, learn when you can play outside the notes of the scale

Another idea is to have a set of "tricks"- little musical "bits" that you can string together.

And then the final piece of the recipe is CONFIDENCE. You have the knowledge of the fret board backwards and forwards, you understand the feel of the song- now play without thinking and "make it happen"

I don't mean to get all "new age" on you, but there is a significant portion of letting go involved. This is where many musicians have turned to alcohol - look at John Coltrane, or Charlie Parker.
So if you can feel confident in your abilities, you won't need any chemical help!

 

[lotuscent]

And then the final piece of the recipe is CONFIDENCE. You have the knowledge of the fret board backwards and forwards, you understand the feel of the song- now play without thinking and "make it happen"

yeah - good point. But I think confidence is crucial every step of the way. If all you can play is simple stuff, do it confidently, convincingly, with heart, soul and crotch! You can make a believer out of anyone that way.

remember - the more sophisticated your playing gets, the more listeners you will alienate. The more musicians you will impress, but remember, 95% of people out there couldn't tell who was better, Cobain or Coltrane... they only know how they feel when they hear it.

I'm not saying dumb it down for the masses, just don't focus on technique and theory withou developing your ability to COMMUNICATE!

FEEL IT AND MAKE THEM FEEL IT!

 

[amt7565]

The secret to good guitar playing is playing along with your favorite band on CD. This way you can compare if you are as good as the band. If not, you keep striving until you are able to play like a pro(not necessarily Satriani or Vai).

20 Years ago, this is what I used to do. Played along with Deep purple and Iron maiden tapes, until I was 90% as accurate as them. My band did the entire "Killers" Album.

The most important thing to do is to be able to decipher the 'Key' of the song. I am assuming you can do this. If you are unable to find the key to a song played on the radio, then this is where you need to concentrate before your solo ambitions kick in. No point in learning scales if you don't know how to and where to apply them.

Best wishes!

 

[BlindCowboy]

I'm hearing alot of ya'll talking about "Being able to determine what key your in" before you can solo. But, not giving any advice on how to train your ear for that. I solo fairly well, but still have trouble determining the key on the radio, or in a song. The second I see the guy's fingers, it's over. Like I said in my previous post. I try to work on this by recording and changing up a 12 Bar to solo on. But I still have troubles with radio songs. I look up the tab.

So, what are some helpful tips on determiniing the key of the song by ear?

Blind Cowboy...

 

[MrStitch]

God damn... this minor pentatonic scale is kicking my ass.

Mostly because, according to my book... I don't use my ring finger.

Being a rythme guitarist all these years, my ring finger has become mandatory =)

But I love this practice tho... And my fucking pinky finger is absolutely killing me!

Furthermore... where can I find out how to read all this music you're talking about. I suck, so all I can read is tabliture... I don't know a single thing about A7b, or whatever the hell else you guys are talking about.. hahah =)

For instance... My book says this scale can be played over Am, Am7, A7, A7#9, C6, BbMa7#11... and a bunch of other stuff thats way over my head =)

 

[MrStitch]

another hard part is learning to "let go"

I do this often with rythme... but on this lead stuff, it becomes way more complicated =)

 

[amt7565]

I know nothing about theory. I play by ear.

As for finding the exact key of a song: it's hard to explain in writing. But I will try!

1) Know the chord progressons. For example, do you know all the related chords for C-major and C-minor?. Do you know any of your favorite songs in the key of C major? Does that song have related chords? A typical country song, if it is in the key of C-major, will have 'F' and 'G'. (F and G are related to C, you must also know the related minor for C : which is 'A-minor' ).
So you see, first try to understand an easy song this way.

Here is another example. Listen to an easy song(start with country.... agggh!). You know there are only 12 notes in western music. Each note has an associated chord. Now this can be 12 Major chords or 12 minor chords(there are other special chords, but for now consider these 24 chords).

So play a chord along with a song on the tape. From trial and error, you should be able to find atleast 1 out of the 24 chords which will match the song.

Now assuming you have found ...let's say, 'G'. You are 100% positive there is a 'G' chord in the song...but not sure if this is the key. So your next step is to find another chord. Another chord will be a reference for the first chord. Now let's say you found "C" which seems to match parts of the song. So now you have "G" and "C".

NOW YOU MUST MAKE A DECISION: Refer to your chord progressions. If "you think G" is the key, is "C" related? yes, for a key of 'G', "C" is related.
next, if you think the key is "C", is "G" related? Answer: Yes it is!
Darn! Now how do we know which is the key? both G and C are related to each other.

Now assuming this song has atleast 3 chords, you can easily find the 3rd chord by playing either "F"(which is related to C) or playing "D"(which is related to G). If the matching chord is "F" then you know the song is in the key of "C". If the matching chord is "D", then you know the key is "G". (Note: C and D are not related, G and F are not related).

Hope this makes sense.

I have a music publication. It has little theory. Check it out if you like: http://www.angelfire.com/musicals/andrewsguitarpage/

 

[BlindCowboy]

Ah, Andrew..

Thanks for that post. Fortunately, I am fairly versed on music theory, not as well as i'd like, but fairly. I understand chord progressions I, IV, V and the such, and what chords, majors, minors, 7ths, 9ths, sus', dims, etc.. within the scale. That, unfortunately is not my issue. I currently do the "hunt and peck" method in order to determine the progression.

My issue is, I see people pick up the progression soooooo much quicker than I can. They've got it in the first 4 bars, and i'm rewinding the song to take another shot at it. And then, they change on the bridge, or move up a key, and i'm screwed, cause i'm still hunting and pecking at the first part.

Make sense?

Blind Cowboy...

 

[amt7565]

Seems like all you need is more experience.
Get out your favorite band/album. Sit and work out all the progression for all the songs. Then transpose them to another key.

Transposing is much easier for guitar than piano. All you are doing is sliding up or down the same pattern.
Good luck.