Solved Need session files!

  • Thread starter Thread starter danny.guitar
  • Start date Start date
D

danny.guitar

Guest
I'm making an instant messenger like MSN/ICQ/AIM/Yahoo! etc. It will have a built in collaboration feature for musicians. One of the options is transferring recording sessions from one computer to another so more than 1 person can work on a song, regardless of what DAW software they use. This way, 2 or more people can all work on the same song with different recording software and it will handle it automatically.

So I need some session files for Sonar, Cubase, etc. As many DAW programs as possible. As many different versions as possible. It'd be best if the session was using a lot of different things (panning, effects, volume envelopes, etc.).

This will be a long/hard task but I'm going to try and work on it a little each day. I noticed some session files are cryptic and might be nearly impossible to implement.

So I don't need any WAV or audio data at all, just the project/session file. For example, Reaper's is .RPP. They're usually small files.

You can zip them up and attach them here or e-mail them to me:

Danny@DannyDotGuitar.com

Anyway, I think a lot of people will find this useful so hopefully I can get some help and some of you will post your session files. ;)
 
NL5 said:
I"ll send a Cubase SX3 session file in just a minute......
Click to expand...

Thanks. :cool:

Edit: Got it. If you open the file with notepad or some other editor you'll see what I have to deal with.

Is there some format that software can export the session as? Some kind of standard? I remember hearing about it, .edo or .edl files or something. That would make things a lot easier. ;)

Otherwise I'm just gonna have to try & figure out the file format myself since there is no online documentation at all that I can find.
 
Danny, That sounds like a very ambitious and excellent project! I'll send you some stuff from Adobe Audition 1.0 (in case you need/want to support a slightly older version...not sure just what/how many version numbers you want to cover) as well as Sony Vegas.

Translating those session files could be quite difficult; I hope you realize what you're in for ;). By that I mean that for some settings and data there may not be direct translations in one application for what is held in another.

A perfect example has to do with panning laws. I'm not sure which software - if any - actually stores that setting in a session file vs. a global application registry setting. But either way, it can be a problem when moving projects between applications because the different pan law options that the different applications offer are not all necessarily identical. This can have a big effect on how a panned mix sounds between applications even if you have the track levels and pan locations set the same in both of them.

I'm not trying to discourage you with this info; on the contrary, I back your efforts all the way! Just wanted to give you a fair heads up on some of the Excedrin moments you may have ahead of you is all :).

EDIT: similar translation problems can happen with EDL (Edit Decision List) files; they can cover common denominator information, but a lot of custom edit information is not necessarily carried by basic EDL files. My expereince with them is probably a bit dated now, but I used to have to deal with them all the time back in my D-Vision days. Perhaps there are new standards that are a bit better. But the basic ones - or at least the three main formats - that we used to deal wih then were CMX, Sony and Grass Valley. I'm sure that if you started your searches with those names followed by "edl", you'd probably have a good start to finding EDL specifications to work with along with (hopefully) any updates.

Also look into BWAV (Broadcast WAV) and OMF file formats.

EDIT #2: Audition and Vegas session files sent via e-mail.

HTH,

G.
 
Last edited:
Register for geatslutz and search for metalcore mix contest. There's a 40 something track song over there available for download.
 
ez_willis said:
Dude, RecordingProject.com has a Collaboration Forum. Same concept.

Go for it though.
Click to expand...

Same concept, different format. I think the instant messenger approach si awesome.

Danny, I can send you some SE3 files this evening. Do they have to have much in terms of content?
 
Thanks for all the replies.

Glen - I do know what I'm getting into and I do have some doubts. There is a deadline for when this is supposed to be released and I still have other things to work on. But I think with enough research/Excedrin/beer I can probably do this. Thanks for the session files too, I got them. :)

johnnyc - I'll take a look thanks

ez - Yea there are a lot of collaboration forums, but I think this has its advantages. You start a project, invite people to the project, and all files are transferred automatically. WAV files are compressed into FLAC (lossless) before being sent and then decompressed on the receiving end. Only files that have been modified are sent, etc. There will be chat rooms especially for the project and the people working on it. And a lot more too.

TelePaul said:
Same concept, different format. I think the instant messenger approach si awesome.

Danny, I can send you some SE3 files this evening. Do they have to have much in terms of content?
Click to expand...

The more they have the better, but really any session files you have will work. Thanks. :cool:
 
Just sent ya a PT 7.1 file :) should have plenty of automation in it..
 
MessianicDreams said:
Just sent ya a PT 7.1 file :) should have plenty of automation in it..
Click to expand...

Great, thanks. :cool: I imagine a lot of people will be using Pro Tools so I definitely need it.
 
After looking at all these session files it seems hopeless especially since I don't have those programs to make test sessions and stuff, but I'm not sure.

How many programs support exporting to EDL format? I notice Reaper has 2 export options for EDL, Vegas and Samplitude. These are standard text files and it would make things so much easier.
 
danny.guitar said:
How many programs support exporting to EDL format?
Click to expand...
Not many...at least not the circa 2000 EDL formats I listed in my earlier post. The problem is that those EDL formats are too basic, and somewhat skewed to videotape editing. They were really designed so that one could take their video (with audio) projects into an automated editing bay or suite and perform basic clip editing and show assembly from B-roll content. But the amount of more custom mixing information they are meant to convey such as fade information, automated levels, automated panning, plug-in effects, etc. is severly limited.

Maybe there are more advanced EDL formats since the ones I've dealt with in the past, but I have not seen even the basic ones those appear as options in many audio editors yet, let alone more "advanced" ones.

I don't know much about these, but you may want to also checkout BWAV and OMF file formats, which I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong here) contain editing information within the actual data file itself. But even there, they don't seem to be formats which have caught on very widely as export options in many audio editors yet. Possibly that may change in the near future, I don't rightly know. But for now I personally know of no "Rosetta Stone" EDL or data files that carry comprensive audio edit information that are widely adopted among the differing brands of editing software.

Maybe if BENNY CHICO or someone currently working in a similar post-production field that he is (and I used to) glances at this thread, they may be able to correct me or add some more up-to-date details that I am unaware of.

G.
 
Thanks, Glen. I wish there was a standard for this stuff (like there is for most things) but I guess since DAWs differ so much that it's not that easy.

I'm gonna give it a shot with the session files but I'm starting to have a lot of doubts. :(
 
danny.guitar said:
I wish there was a standard for this stuff
Click to expand...
Half of me is suprised at this, and half of me isn't.

One one hand, it seems like such a logical and obvious idea to be able to make collaborative projects editor-brand independent. I would be very suprised if you were the first one to ty it (no slight meant on you). Actually it makes me wonder if there might be an open source initiative or two working on some kind of "universal translator". You might want to check Slashdot and Sourceforge and places like that to see if maybe there is such a project under way. You might be able to collaborate with that project and/or intergrate some of their stuff into you IM package.

OTOH, I look at the industry and see that collaboration is really still at a fairly early stage. It's getting quite popular and has quite an underground/independent movement to it, but it hasn't really hit mainstream outside of the higher-echelon Pro Tools factories yet. And one can't really expect Digidesign to open up much on that as long as they are in the "It's our way or the highway" mode that they currently can afford to enjoy, and as long as they have no real serious market share competition in the pro shops.

As far as the rest (Steinberg, Sony, Cakewalk, etc.), unlike VST and similar standards, there is not a whole lot of market advantage to inter-compatability with other brands (except maybe PT.) They are busy battling each for market share; for one company to make other copmanies' software compatable is just opening up the option to the consumer who wants to collaborate to buy the competitor's app instead of theirs. Right now, if you want to collaborate on a project mix level with someone using Cubase, you need to get either Cubase or Nuendo. Should Steinberg open up, then you could get Logic or Audition instead, costing Steinberg a sale.

What's needed is for those companies to decide that they should not be battling each other, but rather that they need to come together to battle Digidesign, as that's where the real market share wars need to be fought. Perhaps if they DID get together by creating a common EDL format or at least a set of standards as you say, they together might be able to combat Digidesign in the growing collaboration and distributed production market.

In the meantime - unless again there is something I am not up-to-date on - I think that a potential open source initiative (as personally distasteful as I might find that...but let's not go down that road) might be your best bet.

G.
 
Yea there's a lot of good stuff on sourceforge, never thought of checking there, but I doubt there's one for converting DAW projects from one session format to another. :(

I consider myself a really good programmer, although I'm not really a "computer geek" so I might not be able to pull this off. It's really complex stuff...

I agree that the DAW companies (Steinberg, etc.) should make a standard format, but that's easier said than done since most DAW software varies so much. Even different sessions using the same DAW can differ a lot, so it's hard to make a standard. Unlike HTML/CSS or other web-based stuff for which there is a standard.

Anyway, I've been working with the session files and I've made a *little* progress, but I still have a lot of doubts. You would think these software companies would release a specification of their file formats so other software could implement an "Import" function. But I guess not. Since that is a potential loss of sales. :( Since their sessions can be converted to another software program.

Anyway, I guess I'll keep working on it. If worst comes to worst, then people working on a project will have to be using the same DAW. :( It can still handle file transfers and stuff automatically and keep everyone up-to-date on the same project.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top