Need help in getting vocal to fit track + how to mix it better

[kratos]

Im trying to a cover of Nothin on You by BOB but its proving quiet difficult.
http://soundcloud.com/user245745


Yeah, this is the best i can do with an sm58 and a dmp3. So before i buy a new condenser mic please critique my mix.

Heres what i did to the vocals and would appreciate any advice on how i can improve it:
Vocal layering on both chorus and pre chorus: 2 times and lowerd the 2nd one by 2dB.
Chorus effect on pre chorus: hard left and one hard right only. Yeah i know im out of time in a few sections.

Compressed: Thresh: -28db, Ratio: 8:1, hard compressed, fast attack 20ms, slow release 200ms for chorus.
For pre chorus: -25dB, Ratio: 4:1, medium compressed, fast attack, slow release 200ms.

Eqed: cut 60Hz (below), 165Hz, 606Hz, 8000Hz raised 770 Hz and 3000Hz,
dB its at: -12 to -16dB
Reverb plate: small room reverb

Plus when i rasise the eq it it adds background noise to it for some reason even though there was none when i recorded it. I raise it ass otherwise it would sound dull since my sm58 is dull.
i used a pop filter too and recorded in a relatively quiet room.
Plus judging by my voice could you suggest a suitable condenser mic too. Thanks

 

[Hegs]

hey man doesnt sound too bad, but here the thing, imho:
I believe an artist needs to learn to sing and sound good without ANY effects and compression and eq. Your voice isnt too bad (tho becomes a bit pitchy and weak at higher notes). Sounds to me like if you worked well on it it could be fantastic. But at the moment you are trying to hide it behind all these fx and compression to try and make it sound better than it is. Fx and compression should be used to enhance a vocal but not mask its inadequacies in my opinion.
So to the point, i think what you have done is a decent effort but you have over used the fx and should work on making your voice stronger (improved pitch and tone) as opposed to working out ways to make it sound better with fx.

hope my opinion seems valid, feel free to contest it
good work mate, peace

 

[kratos]

hey man doesnt sound too bad, but here the thing, imho:
I believe an artist needs to learn to sing and sound good without ANY effects and compression and eq. Your voice isnt too bad (tho becomes a bit pitchy and weak at higher notes). Sounds to me like if you worked well on it it could be fantastic. But at the moment you are trying to hide it behind all these fx and compression to try and make it sound better than it is. Fx and compression should be used to enhance a vocal but not mask its inadequacies in my opinion.
So to the point, i think what you have done is a decent effort but you have over used the fx and should work on making your voice stronger (improved pitch and tone) as opposed to working out ways to make it sound better with fx.

hope my opinion seems valid, feel free to contest it
good work mate, peace

I dunno its just that when i sing into the sm58 mic my vocals feel claustrophobic and automatically (could be something to do with me) i cant seem to hear high notes (it sounds a bit muddy)
Btw i did a quick recording of that just this morning. Its a not a final version obviously so i didnt really put in time to correct on my errors.
I think i need to change the mic so if you could suggest one which might suite me then it would be great thanks

 

[RAMI]

hey man doesnt sound too bad, but here the thing, imho:
I believe an artist needs to learn to sing and sound good without ANY effects and compression and eq. Your voice isnt too bad (tho becomes a bit pitchy and weak at higher notes). Sounds to me like if you worked well on it it could be fantastic. But at the moment you are trying to hide it behind all these fx and compression to try and make it sound better than it is. Fx and compression should be used to enhance a vocal but not mask its inadequacies in my opinion.
So to the point, i think what you have done is a decent effort but you have over used the fx and should work on making your voice stronger (improved pitch and tone) as opposed to working out ways to make it sound better with fx.

hope my opinion seems valid, feel free to contest it
good work mate, peace

I agree with this 100%. No offense to Kratos, but he has started at least 2 other threads in the Recording and Mixing forums. People have given him the same advice over and over, about the talent and practicing part of it. But he seems to want to ignore it. No matter how many times people say it, he still seems to think he can mask talent with a bunch of effects.

Kratos, I hate to break this to you, but I guarantee you that 99% of your favorite stuff to listen to wasn't drowned in effects to make it sound good. You'd be surprised how little difference there is between the raw track of a good vocal, and the finished "produced" product.

 

[Hegs]

singing is like any instrument, it takes practise. the best condensor in the world wont make a poor voice better it will just change the characteristics of the recording. In fact condesors are far more senstive so they pick up flaws in tone more easily. I use a Studio Projects B1, it is cheap and great imo. I would recomend practisting by recording as you are doing, but without fx and then listen back and try and work out your strengths and weaknesses.

 

[kratos]

I agree with this 100%. No offense to Kratos, but he has started at least 2 other threads in the Recording and Mixing forums. People have given him the same advice over and over, about the talent and practicing part of it. But he seems to want to ignore it. No matter how many times people say it, he still seems to think he can mask talent with a bunch of effects.

Kratos, I hate to break this to you, but I guarantee you that 99% of your favorite stuff to listen to wasn't drowned in effects to make it sound good. You'd be surprised how little difference there is between the raw track of a good vocal, and the finished "produced" product.

I have taken your advices from the last threads. I just need "new" advice on how to mix/eq the vocals properly now!
Im still an ultmate noob to recording, ive got the books and stuff but the forums are better as they are advice from people whove done this shit before.

Jeez...

 

[TripleM]

I'd back off some of the effects. Personally I'd ditch the chorus entirely. Your voice is pretty good. Caught a couple of pitchy spots, but you could punch those out. Caught a couple of spots where the double tracking could have been tighter. But again, you could punch those out.

It's risky giving EQ advice, but here goes... I don't see where the vocal track needed a boost at 3K. That's an edgy part of the spectrum. You might get a bit of clarity if you moved it up to around 5K. It'd take some edge off too.

Caught a pop at about :17.

 

[Bguzaldo]

ive got the books and stuff

Read about some of the vocal recording and mixing techniques, try em out, analyze the results and repeat. This is probably the most efficient way to get results. Everyone here is great and they give great advice but they dont always know what YOU'RE looking for, only you do. Its about listening and if you don't know how to listen to what your tracks are telling you then that's what you must work on first.

Your voice sounds good, but everyone can use more practice so don't get upset when everyone tells you to practice more. I've recorded hundreds of bands and the best sounding recordings are always the bands that are the best players this is not a lie its not a myth, its fact and its proven.

Hope this helps,
-Barrett

 

[kratos]

Read about some of the vocal recording and mixing techniques, try em out, analyze the results and repeat. This is probably the most efficient way to get results. Everyone here is great and they give great advice but they dont always know what YOU'RE looking for, only you do. Its about listening and if you don't know how to listen to what your tracks are telling you then that's what you must work on first.

Your voice sounds good, but everyone can use more practice so don't get upset when everyone tells you to practice more. I've recorded hundreds of bands and the best sounding recordings are always the bands that are the best players this is not a lie its not a myth, its fact and its proven.

Hope this helps,
-Barrett

Just wondering when I compress my vocals it sounds a bit chirpy/crackly/extra dry. I dunno if that's supposed to do that. Could it be coz my sm58 is giving that undesired result? I stand 6 inches away. I've tried many diferent takes and still when I compress it sounds like that. Would a condenser mic make a difference such as a rode nt1 or nt2 coz I'm looking at them right now.

 

[singlespeak]

Compression is meant to lower the volume by a certain amount when the signal hits a certain threshold. It's not "supposed" to make anything crackly or chirpy. If it does, you're overdoing it which in certain cases can be what you want. If you're not happy with the result, it isn't. I was extremely pleased when I switched my SM58 for an NT1a. It sounds so much richer and clearer in my opinion. SM58 for vocals, for me, is just a hassle.
Your vocals sound like you just inhaled helium. I don't know if that's just your voice, if it's the point or if it's an effect. There's no bass. I try to steer clear from this genre but I'm pretty sure it's usually quite bass-y. If you add one you'll see that making the voice fit just becomes a different task afterwards. The whole fragment needs more bottom. Hope this helps.

 

[kratos]

Compression is meant to lower the volume by a certain amount when the signal hits a certain threshold. It's not "supposed" to make anything crackly or chirpy. If it does, you're overdoing it which in certain cases can be what you want. If you're not happy with the result, it isn't. I was extremely pleased when I switched my SM58 for an NT1a. It sounds so much richer and clearer in my opinion. SM58 for vocals, for me, is just a hassle.
Your vocals sound like you just inhaled helium. I don't know if that's just your voice, if it's the point or if it's an effect. There's no bass. I try to steer clear from this genre but I'm pretty sure it's usually quite bass-y. If you add one you'll see that making the voice fit just becomes a different task afterwards. The whole fragment needs more bottom. Hope this helps.

I generally try to sing in falseto (inspired by michael jackson and justin timberlake). I know its hard to do that but im also trying differnt singing styles to record so that i can decide which way i can best record them for a 5 track EP im planning to do.
It doesnt have much bass because i was standing 6 inches away and that i removed a whole bass part because it was muddying the vocals.
ordered a rode nt2 though and hopefully i can get better results by both the new gear and hopefully by practising more.

 

[Bguzaldo]

Just wondering when I compress my vocals it sounds a bit chirpy/crackly/extra dry. I dunno if that's supposed to do that. Could it be coz my sm58 is giving that undesired result? I stand 6 inches away. I've tried many diferent takes and still when I compress it sounds like that. Would a condenser mic make a difference such as a rode nt1 or nt2 coz I'm looking at them right now.

First of all what kind of comp are you using? Hardware or software? I'm guessing it's some plug ins though. Does it sound better without compression? If so...don't compress it, or look around the net for better plugins, some are free, I'm not a digital guy so I couldn't tell you whats good, but I know they're out there. Look around this site http://www.kvraudio.com/

A different mic will make a differece, whether its an LDC an SDC or the mic built into your cell phone, but I know plenty of people have gotten awesome results with 58s.

How is your room? Is it treated? This is huge. If you don't have the time or money to treat your room, go into a closet with a bunch of clothes in it or something.

Like I said man you gotta try different things, not the same thing over and over again. Try positioning yourself at different distances from the mic, with different amounts of gain, in different rooms. Work on getting the best sound you can without compression and then try messing with it after you've done all you could and see if it makes it any better, if not don't use it. No where does it say YOU HAVE TO USE COMPRESSION ON THE VOCALS!

Experiment, that's where the fun is at.

Hope this helps,
-Barrett

 

[guitar zero]

After years of trying to take bad vocals and make them sound good with processing, I've learned that it is far easier and less time consuming to re-track the vocals (Not saying your vocals are bad by the way, but you are clearly not happy with them).

When you re-track, change the mic, change the pre-amp, change the room, change the distance from the mic, change things until you are HAPPY with the vocal sound from the get go. Once you arrive here, then adding effects is way more likely to give you a sound that will make you smile. Mixing made easy begins with good tracking, IMO.