Need help finding uk suppliers

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LemonTree said:
#2... make sure you square off your frame before you nail on the first sheet of ply and I should have mentioned to caulk or glue up the seams when you flip it over

Reading that all back, playground safety rubber and car door seals...no wonder everyone thinks us scottish are tight fisted bastages with our money lol
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Well, we are! I'm exactly the same. For doors, drive round looking for skips!!! There will be somebody, somewhere, throwing out a good old door :p. I got 4 of them, from somebody on my road, but unfortunately they were all too big for my build :(
 
LemonTree said:
A quick note on doors..... I built my own for buttons

I bought some 4"x2" timber, and a couple of sheets of 8'x4' ¼" plywood, some 8x4 plasterboard and 4 2" right angle brackets.

I cut the 4x2 timber down to 3x2 on a table saw, 2 sides a top and bottom.

1.Use the angle brackets on the insides of the corners of your door frame on the 3" side of the wood

2 nail a sheet of ply over one side of the frame and flip the whole thing over

3. cut 2 sheets of plasterboard (this should be the 12.5mm stuff I should mention), green glue one sheet of plasterboard inside the frame and onto the plywood.

4. drop in some 2" RW45. If you cut the frame down to 3" you should have 12.5mm left to drop in your other sheet of cut plasterboard

5. green glue it and cover with the other sheet of plywood and nail it all around the frame.

6. stand back and admire your super new door :eek::D

Don't worry that it has no handles or latch mechanism...the handles that go right through the doors with a bar that works the latch need a big hole that you can never seal properly. Instead get a fixed screw on handle for the side that pulls, you don't need a handle to push a door open on the other side.

Get one of them little screw on sprung ball latches from B&Q for a couple of quid....buy a cheap small chisel with the change from your fiver to mortice out the recess in the door for the sprung ball mechanism to sit in and to take a bit out the frame for the same purpose when the door is closed.

Now a door is a door but it's the seal and the frame that make a door a good studio door. Best thing you can do is MAKE the doorframe to fit the door you just made, it's easy. This time use 6"x2"...think I used 5"x2 if I remember correctly cut from 6x2 on the table saw. Lay the door down and build a 4 sided frame around it using 2" thick for the top and sides and 1" for the bottom...yeah everyone forgets and trips over it but it lets you put a good seal all the way around the door. Don't use that sticky backed foam stuff on a roll for the seal. You want the good hollow circular rubber stuff........you're thinking that's gonna cost more than the door, right? Wrong....get up your local car scrap yard with a stanley knife and help yourself to some door seals...volvo ones are good if you can get them ;)
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No offense LT, but i think he'd be better of with 2 solid core doors. Your door sounds great if you have one of them, but two would effectively make a 4 leaf structure.
 
See I would have not even realized that If I just followed those instructions blindly. No offense either. I truly appreciate everyone's help. I wish there was a straight up, simple to follow instructions on how to construct a sound-lock door with PHOTOS form buying a simple solid core door. Unfortunately I can't find one anywhere. Hopefully cakewalkKaKed will come to the rescue:D.
 
anemicrock said:
See I would have not even realized that If I just followed those instructions blindly. No offense either. I truly appreciate everyone's help. I wish there was a straight up, simple to follow instructions on how to construct a sound-lock door with PHOTOS form buying a simple solid core door. Unfortunately I can't find one anywhere. Hopefully cakewalkKaKed will come to the rescue:D.
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If you want two doors(might be better isolation) just buy or find 2 solid-core doors. I bought fire doors 'cause they're pretty heavy, solid and could be cut to fit the spaces(preferably to make the frame to fit the door, but i had to do it the other way). If not, just follow LTs instructions. His door sounds pretty decent. You can buy 3"x2" wood instead of 4x2 and cutting it down.
 
I just been looking at some fire doors. I can get them pretty cheap so that's a nice surprise. All I should have to do is get some acoustic seals and hopefully job done! What do you think about the products from these guys?

http://www.norsound.co.uk/
 
First off, you want to define exactly what the job of the door is. In home construction there's no way you are going to achieve total sound block on DIY prices. If you crank up the budget you have to think about the return you will make from it. i.e. will you be making money from your studio that will eventualy cover the cost of your build?

Chances are, and granted I don't know your circumstances, you are building a home studio to learn and improve your own music recording and mixing skills. That's where I started off about 7 years ago on my first studio build. I'm now at the stage where I have a handfull of clients that are constantly growing through word of mouth.

I have been working with a single room and a cupboard that doubles as an iso booth / vocal booth. I get away with that setup because I use Roland V drums and not an acoustic kit. Trying to achieve total sound block just wasn't and still isn't in my budget. The door I built went on the cupboard and was to stop spill from the control room being picked up in the mics in the iso booth. I listen through the monitors to get the mic sound I'm after then when it comes to tracking I'll get under the headphones. It's not ideal but it works and it's kept my budget to a bare minimum.

I think you have to be realistic about what you are trying to achieve. Take a look through the big thread with all the pics "show me your studio" I think it's called. There are a lot of nice spaces in there. Some very minimal, some over elaborate, and some which are obviously not home studios...by this I mean a purpose built structure outwith the 4 walls of your home. Now you could sit in that thread drooling for hours wanting one just like this one or that one but, have a look at the older builds and follow up the posters links to their music and see what results they are achieving. You'll soon realise that some of the lesser impressive looking spaces that were thrown together for less cash are producing some of the better sounding results.

It's far too easy to be drawn in blind on the first run overspending on stuff e.g. acoustic caulk for one only to finish your studio seriously out of pocket and extremely disapointed with the results of your "sound proofing". There are very few materials on the planet that are truly sound proof. You need mass and air both of which take up space and space is the one luxury most home recers don't have.

Your best bet is to do the best job you can to keep outside noises from getting into your studio and spend the rest of your budget acousticaly treating your room, THEN find a level to work at that won't annoy the outside world.

Oh and a tip on double doors.....if you make them seal perfectly you will create a vacuum between them and have a hard time getting them open again. ;) Sorry, I have a tendency to type out loud as I think it and do go on a bit some times.
 
LemonTree said:
Oh and a tip on double doors.....if you make them seal perfectly you will create a vacuum between them and have a hard time getting them open again. ;) Sorry, I have a tendency to type out loud as I think it and do go on a bit some times.
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Yeah that can happen, but for isolation it's probably the best way. If you have a 2 leaf structure, with both leaves completely isolated from each other, then you need 2 doors.

Ohh i do that too, don't worry. ;)
 
Well look, here is my situation. I have produced and mixed all of my bands album that have been released worldwide and have been happy with the results. For guitars we have just been using amplitube and pods. For drums we have been using BFD. I love BFD and think with some of the expansion packs you can get great realistic results. Thats all well and good recording that way for your own band but I want to start recording other bands I know and hopefully like you, word of mouth will get around and then I can seriously think about getting a PROPER location rather than my apartment.

I can't or should I say don't feel comfortable having bands show up to record and then tell them there drummer has to record on some electric kit. Most bands I know would straight up refuse and are fussy as hell. They want to use there kit. Also I need the practice with recording real drum kits. Granted it might be harder to record in a small space but that is the card I have been dealt with. The purpose is to build a room isolated enough so my neighbors won't complain. That is my main goal with this room. That is why I need a good door etc. Hope that makes sense.
 
anemicrock said:
Well look, here is my situation. I have produced and mixed all of my bands album that have been released worldwide and have been happy with the results. For guitars we have just been using amplitube and pods. For drums we have been using BFD. I love BFD and think with some of the expansion packs you can get great realistic results. Thats all well and good recording that way for your own band but I want to start recording other bands I know and hopefully like you, word of mouth will get around and then I can seriously think about getting a PROPER location rather than my apartment.

I can't or should I say don't feel comfortable having bands show up to record and then tell them there drummer has to record on some electric kit. Most bands I know would straight up refuse and are fussy as hell. They want to use there kit. Also I need the practice with recording real drum kits. Granted it might be harder to record in a small space but that is the card I have been dealt with. The purpose is to build a room isolated enough so my neighbors won't complain. That is my main goal with this room. That is why I need a good door etc. Hope that makes sense.
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Well if you're building a room within a room (inner completely isolated from outer) then I'd go with 2 solid-core doors. If you have a standard stud wall then LT's suggestion is perfect. What size is your space, and how far from neighbours etc? In fact, just give as much info about your space as possible and as much info about what you plan to do, and members here might be able to help you.
 
Okay. I'll try my best here to explain what I expect to achieve, where I'm building this room and why.

Please see attached photos of the space I will be using.

Internal room size 6 ft depth by 9 ft long by 8 ft tall.
I am planning to use a Mass-Spring-Mass type wall. The spring will be probably 3 inches. Like the Partition Photo.

I will be using a "FLOATING FLOOR" as I have neighbors below me. Also as you can see in the photos that is a neighbor just over the fence. I could build it right at the back of my roof terrace but I'm worried about the cables going that far as my control room is in the apartment. As stated before the roof floor WILL HOLD. I live with an architect who has approved it will hold and by a structural engineer. Also you can't see in the photos but my neighbor down the other end of the building has a HUGE hot tub on his terrace. His floor has not fallen through. I'm not worried about the floor at all. Sorry I just wanted to clear that up before I get blasted with comments regarding this.

I will be building this room to Isolate Heavy Rock drums from my neighbors below me and next door as much as possible. I will also use this room to record guitars cabs. I WON'T be using this room to have a live band play or anything like that. One instrument at a time. Also another reason for this build in regards to why I'm building it is that it's a good place to learn how to record drums without needing to rent a rehearsal space. Here I can record whenever I want. Obviously not at 3am. I'm trying to be as informative as possible so I apologize if I have missed something.

Also for my build I will be using 12.5 mm plaster boards. 3 for each leaf as 19mm is hard to find or way to expensive. Green Glue to stick in between them. No Resilient Channels and No MLV or Sheetrock. I hear it's a waste og money. The normal "Fluffy Stuff" for insulation. Myabe U-boats to float the floor but I'm looking into that. AC50 Everflex Sealant for all the joints. A double door system. I'm looking into the best options. NO WINDOW and I'm working on what to do for an Air vent. 2X6 studs not staggered. As few screws as possible. Like I said, I apologize if I have missed some vital Info.

Thanks.
 

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I wish you all the LUCK in the world isolating rock drums from neighbours THAT close.

Looks like with the money you will have to spend to get them down to anywhere near an acceptable level you could buy something like the Roland TD12 and trigger BFD or DFHS 2.0. This is by no means a "crappy elelectic drums" setup and will give you drum recordings that will be much more manageable to get an acceptable sound than recording in a 6 x 9 sweatbox.

I realise we're in the studio building form here so I'll quit now with alternative suggestions. However, I suggest you start a new topic asking how many people have succesfully built a drum booth 6 x 9 on the inside no matter how much mass they have on the outside to kill the SPL and got results, and I mean good results where they are content with their drum sounds.

80% of the drum sound on comercial recordings IS the sound of the room they are recorded in. With a 6 x 9 x 8 drum room you will need to make it completely dead and add artificial room characteristics with reverbs and delays. This is not an ideal way to get a good drum sound. I won't even go into the problems you will run into with standing waves and mic phase issues in a space that small.

I'm sorry to sound so negative about it and hopefuly you will realise the sincerity of my post that I'm talking from past experience and trying to save you a lot of time, effort and wasted money. Do some more research. And good luck with your findings.

Alex
 
Sorry Lemontree. I would have to completely disagree with you. First of all read this thread http://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-tchad-blake/123080-drums-small-room.html Also guys like Joe Barresi has said he likes to record drums in very small rooms. We're not in the 80's anymore. Most of the albums I listen to have very little room sound and that is most likely the kind of bands I expect to record.

As for the isolation. I never said I was going to be using the booth late at night or unreasonable hours. I don't expect miracle results. But let's just think about it for a second shall we. The outside wall which you can see in the picture is made out of the same materials I would be using for the walls of my booth. In fact my walls would be even better with the mass-spring-mass and the whole air tight business. So If I we're to say to you, oh I'm going to put the drums in a room within a room inside my apartment you wouldn't have been suggesting alternatives. Like I said, I am NOT expecting completely silent results nor is my head in the clouds. I have done enough research to know drums can sound great in a small booth and I believe I can get away with recording drums in my build if done right. My neighbors are cool and wouldn't mind a few hours in the day listening to a bit of muffled drums.

Also I will never buy an electronic drum kit. I have no problem with them and think there great, easy to work with and cause a lot less headaches but I know for a FACT that my clients would totally disagree.

One last thing to point out. I know you just trying to help and I apologize if it sounds like I'm slamming you, but when you said "Looks like with the money you will have to spend to get them down to anywhere near an acceptable level you could buy something like the Roland TD12" kind of makes me think you didn't read carefully what my WANTS for this booth was. I said I also want it to practice recording drums which I can't do on a Roland TD12 and If the cost for a Roland TD12 is about as much to build a room at an acceptable level then that is the option I am going with.
 
Hats off to you for determination and again, best of luck with your project.
 
Thanks. I smell the sarcasm and I know your only trying to help. But it WILL be built. I'll post a thread of the build and results soon. One last thing. As you said, " the money you will have to spend to get them down to anywhere near an acceptable level", Any recommendations? Since you said it I was wondering what else I can incorporate into my plan that would achieve this.

I thought a floating floor, double studded walls, mass double doors, no windows, and a decoupled ceiling would have been enough. What else is there to do? Have I missed something? I'm not being sarcastic. I would just like to know what I'm missing.

If you truly think it cannot be done without the help of Nasa or 10k then I'll give up the idea and think of something else but if you think I can pull it off with any other solutions you might have then lets hear them.

The only reason I'm getting a bit annoyed is everyone seems to just go by charts and stc ratings etc etc which is a good thing but has anyone built an actual drum isolation booth using the methods I plan to use or similar and actually proved it didn't do shit. Might as well play the drums in the neighbors living room or yea, it actually did a good job, I can still hear it but no way loud enough to complain when being used in the middle of the day.
 
anemicrock said:
Thanks. I smell the sarcasm and I know your only trying to help. But it WILL be built. I'll post a thread of the build and results soon. One last thing. As you said, " the money you will have to spend to get them down to anywhere near an acceptable level", Any recommendations? Since you said it I was wondering what else I can incorporate into my plan that would achieve this.

I thought a floating floor, double studded walls, mass double doors, no windows, and a decoupled ceiling would have been enough. What else is there to do? Have I missed something? I'm not being sarcastic. I would just like to know what I'm missing.

If you truly think it cannot be done without the help of Nasa or 10k then I'll give up the idea and think of something else but if you think I can pull it off with any other solutions you might have then lets hear them.

The only reason I'm getting a bit annoyed is everyone seems to just go by charts and stc ratings etc etc which is a good thing but has anyone built an actual drum isolation booth using the methods I plan to use or similar and actually proved it didn't do shit. Might as well play the drums in the neighbors living room or yea, it actually did a good job, I can still hear it but no way loud enough to complain when being used in the middle of the day.
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You're not missing anything, but more mass, more air-gap, being further from neighbours, etc. would all help.

People have done it, and it works if done right.

I have built a 9'x5' with 6'6" ceiling drum booth in an old world war(don't know which) bombshelter(with walls 3-brick-thick and concrete floor and roof). I lined the inside with plasterboard, and built an attempt at a "floating floor".

It's pretty well isolated, but you can still hear the drums outside. It's enough for what i need and, although my neighbours are close, they are not as close as yours, and i have a lot more mass. I've never actually asked them if they can hear anything in the house, but haven't had any complaints.

As for the sound inside. It doesn't sound great, and is really crampt(could do with an extra 1-2'), but i do have 4 gobos and 2 clouds. I get decent recordings imo, and would choose it over an e-kit.
 
That's a bit of relief pandamonk. Good to hear that it can be done. But remember I don't have to build my booth exactly there as shown in the photos. I can build it right at the end of the terrace which you can't see in the photos. It might help a little but worth a shot. If all else fails I can use it for guitars or vocals. I think it will work though. With a floating floor and a raised deck inside the booth for the drums like the one's aurolex make I can't see the neighbor's below me complaining. Also the neighbor's who live in the apartment you can see in the photos are pretty cool and are out most of the time. Monday - Friday they work 9-5 so I think things will be sweet.
 
pandamonk said:
As for the sound inside. It doesn't sound great, and is really crampt(could do with an extra 1-2'), but i do have 4 gobos and 2 clouds. I get decent recordings imo, and would choose it over an e-kit.
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Got any samples of your drum recordings panda?


Anem, there was no sarcasm. I know there is a lot of it going around on this site but you won't get any from me. I've been that fool who built a floating floor room within a room on the second floor of a building. What you get in the room below is all the low end stuff, muffled and thumping...sounds worse than a full spectrum of loud music IMO. A rock drummer's snare is going to be hit in excess of 120 Db most of the time, so if you do manage an STC rating of 60 with your mass and "the pink fluffy stuff" that's gonna make it half as loud...or so you would think. In actual fact it'll be half as loud only so far down the spectrum, don't expect to be shaving that off in the lower register because it just doesn't happen with a couple of sheets of plasterboard and some green glue.
 
Okay. Now that you have explained it to me like that I find it easier to understand what your saying.

But now I have two problems. If a snare drum being hit by a rock drummer is in excess of 120 Db most of the time and my wall is say an STC of 68, what can I do to improve the STC to get it somewhere like an STC of 90 or 100?
 
anemicrock said:
That's a bit of relief pandamonk. Good to hear that it can be done. But remember I don't have to build my booth exactly there as shown in the photos. I can build it right at the end of the terrace which you can't see in the photos. It might help a little but worth a shot. If all else fails I can use it for guitars or vocals. I think it will work though. With a floating floor and a raised deck inside the booth for the drums like the one's aurolex make I can't see the neighbor's below me complaining. Also the neighbor's who live in the apartment you can see in the photos are pretty cool and are out most of the time. Monday - Friday they work 9-5 so I think things will be sweet.
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Make sure to float the floor on neoprene or something, and have the mass of the floor the same, or maybe even more than the walls.
 
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