Need help building a soundproof section inside my living room

[me_kaush]

Hi, I am looking to build a 6ft long x 4ft wide x 8ft high section inside my apartment that lets as little sound to escape out as possible, so that my wife can practice her singing inside it without disturbing my neighbors.

Music details: She is an Indian Carnatic classical singer who sings in pitch F to the accompaniment of a drone instrument that plays this pitch (http://www.karnatik.com/shrutibox/shrutiF.wav). Mostly she practices alone, sometimes along with another person who also sings in the same octave. There are no other percussion/string instruments.

Apartment details: My apartment has extremely thin concrete walls, and concrete flooring and is non-carpeted with vinyl floors. We do own the apartment.

Section details: I have a handsketch here of the section. So if you take the frontview of this section, the left side is the existing side wall of my apartment. There is a window on the end of the section facing the backyard, but i'm not concerned with keeping out noise from outside the window as my wife doesn't plan to record anything inhouse yet. I would like to build the other 2 sides, the right side wall and a front facing wall with a door.

Could you please advice on what material is most suitable for building this section? I am thinking of using a combination of plexiglass and sheetrock with some fiberglass insulation between the 2 layers. (I am thinking plexiglass so that this section adds some value to my apartment, come time to rent it out or sell, later on). I am also guessing that once i build this, i may need to attach some sound absorbers to the inside of the walls. I have a budget of around 1500$ for all the materials.

Thank you.

 

[Mindset]

You shouldn't build the walls parallel to each other, and you also should have a floating floor, or false floor, or whatever you want to call it, the floating floor should have layer's of like floor, noise reducer, floor, noise reducer, floor, etc... Also, your walls should have some cusion inbetween them, not just sheetrock by itself, you might want to try have space inside the wall also, along with some type of noise reducer between them, plus your studs' could sit 24" apart, and be jagged instead of um uniform. On your ceilings, have that false ceiling, but also add some sound enforcement with it on the real ceiling. That'll all help slow down & stop escaping sound too.. On the inside of the room, use that non-hardening caulk to seal off everything air tight so that sound does not travel out of it... Also sound lock the doors, and that shouldn't let sound escape at all... or reduce it a whole lot....

As materials go, you could try regular ply wood, BUT just 1 layer or just 2 layers wouldn't absorb sound that much. HOWEVER, using it along with other types of cheap methods, and it works just as fine... For glass, I suggest using thick glass, and not have them parallel together, otherwise the sound will bounce a lot too... On the floors, I heard floor matts, like the ones used in gyms, and some rubber roll on stuff, would work well along with giving maybe like an inch or 2 air space so that the sound can keep traveling and slow down and hit another type of sound enforcement.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

You shouldn't build the walls parallel to each other, and you also should have a floating floor, or false floor, or whatever you want to call it, the floating floor should have layer's of like floor, noise reducer, floor, noise reducer, floor, etc... Also, your walls should have some cusion inbetween them, not just sheetrock by itself, you might want to try have space inside the wall also, along with some type of noise reducer between them, plus your studs' could sit 24" apart, and be jagged instead of um uniform. On your ceilings, have that false ceiling, but also add some sound enforcement with it on the real ceiling. That'll all help slow down & stop escaping sound too.. On the inside of the room, use that non-hardening caulk to seal off everything air tight so that sound does not travel out of it... Also sound lock the doors, and that shouldn't let sound escape at all... or reduce it a whole lot....

PURE UNADULTERATED HORSESHIT

You shouldn't build the walls parallel to each other

In a small space such as this it plain doesn't matter. You will get modal buildups regardless.

the floating floor should have layer's of like floor, noise reducer, floor, noise reducer, floor, etc...

Like floor? What the fuck are you talking about. Since the existing floor is concrete, then you mean concrete, no? If he took this advice, you would have a THREE or FOUR leaf CONCRETE assembly.
Are you suggesting pouring two or more SLABS with......
wait.........., exactly WHAT is a "noise reducer"? good grief... And exactly what are you going to "float" this kind of weight on?

Also, your walls should have some cusion inbetween them,

Please explain the term.."cusion". Haven't got a clue to wtf you are talking about.

you might want to try have space inside the wall also, along with some type of noise reducer between them,

Space? According to your description you ONLY have the depth of a stud as an airgap. PERIOD. And again, exactly what material are you referring to as a "noise reducer"? Between what? Layers or leaves?

and be jagged instead of um uniform.

Hmmm, theres a new one on me....jagged?....instead of uniform? Perhaps you can explain this new terminology please. Is this some form of new stud "surface"...such as "RESAWN"...thats jagged to an extent. Although I don't understand what difference it could possibly make.

On your ceilings, have that false ceiling, but also add some sound enforcement with it on the real ceiling.

SOUND ENFORCEMENT??????WTF are you talking about??? First off, if this is a typical "dropped" drywall ceiling, exactly how would you have access to this space without cutting an access to it?? If this is a "grid" dropped ceiling, it has no mass and is rediculous to use as a ceiling to a space you are trying to ahem.....soundproof. Not only that but this space above would act as a flanking path to the existing walls that DO reach the structural ceiling...thereby NEGATING any additional mass added to these walls below the dropped ceiling...good grief.

That'll all help slow down & stop escaping sound too..

Slow down "excalating" sound? What do you mean by "excalating" sound? And xactly how do you propose to change the laws of physics? The speed of sound in AIR is approx. 1300 fps at sea level. The speed of sound in MATERIALS is typically much faster. So how do you propose to "slow down" sound?? As to "stopping" the propogation of sound via "caulking air leaks, yes you are correct. However, if TOTAL soundproof is the goal, please be aware there is no such thing as "soundproof".

Also sound lock the doors, and that shouldn't let sound escape at all... or reduce it a whole lot....

Sound lock?? Are we talking another space such as a vestiuble with TWO doors? That IS a sound lock. Perhaps you could enlighten us.

As materials go, you could try regular ply wood, BUT just 1 layer or just 2 layers wouldn't absorb sound that much.

Typically ALL materials ABSORB to one degree or another. However, if you are looking for ABSORPTION as a subset of TRANSMISSION LOSS, you are barking up the wrong tree. unless you are talking about the absorption of different spiecies of wood flooring, typically, absorption is NOT a characteristic that is valued in TRANSMISSION LOSS rated materials and assemblies. MASS is. Since plywood has much less mass than drywall....forget plywood.

HOWEVER, using it along with other types of cheap methods, and it works just as fine...

Fine? at what? For transmission loss applications...thats hogwash. Drywall is the best bang for the buck.

Should I go on?

Actually friends, I can't go on...the problem here is the propogation of "disinformation"(aka "net fact" that is so extensive it leaves one speechless. Vague theory, little scientific fact, techniques with basis so bare it leaves much to the imagination, and total disregard for plain common sense, it also makes one wonder...WHAT THE FUCK?????????????

In conclusion...

would work well along with giving maybe like an inch or 2 air space so that the sound can keep traveling and slow down and hit another type of sound enforcement.

Should I say more?

 

[thegunshyboy]

no, but can you answer a question.

why are you so fucking rude to everyone?

the point of these forums is to help people with questions.
i don't post much here, but i lurk alot, and all i EVER seem to see you do is tear people a new one, often on the basis of your own mis-reads.

1. he didn't say float a concrete floor, don't know where you got that, or why you would infer that.
3. he misspelled cushion and you know it, so don't act like a dumbass
4. he said escaping, where the crap are you getting 'excalating'?

how about instead of tearing apart other people, you actually try and suggest something useful.

 

[me_kaush]

Hello,
Thanks for the clarification. It is very much appreciated. My workplace has conference rooms with floor-to-ceiling clear-plexiglass of 1/2 inch thickness and you can only hear if people really start shouting inside them. The plexiglass is anchored to the floor and the ceiling over aluminium tracks. There's no frame around the glass.

I very much like this design but am not sure about its efficacy for soundproofing music. In one of the earlier threads, someone had explained that for high-frequency music, sound absorbers are pretty effective. So if i use floor-ceiling plexiglass with sound-absorbing foam clamped on the inside, will it reduce the sound emanating out? This way, i need only have this foam during her practice, other times i can simply unclamp and store them away.

The reason i would really like to avoid having to build visually obstructing partitions is because as it is, we live in a 450 sqft apartment and any such partition makes the apartment look even smaller.

Thank you.

 

[thegunshyboy]

sound proofing is never 100%, and is very, very expensive to do right. i think building something like this would be very costly, confining, and may even work against you if not done correctly. I think there are other ways around it though.

would the room be primarily used for the singer?
singers aren't very loud (in comparison to drums or loud amps)
do your neighbors complain about noise?

you might be better off trying to talk to the neighbors and figuring out a schedule of when you can record and it won't disturb them. and then acoustically treating the room so it sounds better.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

no, but can you answer a question.

Sure. Do it all the time. In fact Mr. Brilliant, if you look at my post count there a bit over THREE THOUSAND, of which at least 2000 of them are not only answering questions to the best of my knowlege, but I also have spent about 1000 hrs drawing FUCKING SOLUTIONS for people. The fact is, I WAS going to answer his questions but ran out of time.

and all i EVER seem to see you do is tear people a new one, often on the basis of your own mis-reads.

My misreads? Oh P-ULESE. Spare me. If anything I've CLARIFIED many many other peoples DISINFORMATION. Besides, would you have the author of this thread BELIEVE him...and actually do what he said? If so, TOO BAD. Thats the whole point. You don't seem to get it.

1. he didn't say float a concrete floor, don't know where you got that, or why you would infer that.

I DIDN"T say he did. HE is the one that said...."like floor"....which I ASKED if he meant "like" the existing concrete floor. So get your facts straight. I was asking for clarification dimwit. REGARDLESS, he still suggested a multiple(3-4) leaf floor of ANY KIND....with...lets see, how did he put it...oh yea....."noise reducer," between leafs or layers, or wtf ever he was talking about. I don't think even he knows. noise reducer indeed...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Like there is some magical product that reduces transmission....good god. Spare me.

3. he misspelled cushion and you know it, so don't act like a dumbass

What happened to #2. Hmmmm, mispelled? Hell, I don't even know what hes talking about even if it were spelled correctly...which I didn't even notice in the first place. What the fuck is this........"cushion"...?????????

4. he said escaping, where the crap are you getting 'excalating'?

Hmmm, so he did. Well,theres always a first time. I could have sworn he said....nevermind. My mistake. But the point was "slowing down" sound. Care to delve into that one for me?

how about instead of tearing apart other people, you actually try and suggest something useful.

I wasn't tearing ANYONE apart. I was trying to ....nevermind, you wouldn't get it anyway. Ok scroll down to the Isolation section. I'll be back later. I'm outta here for now.

http://forum.studiotips.com/index.php

 

[thegunshyboy]

...and you still didn't answer the original poster's question. did you run out of time again, mr. 3,000 and counting? i DO disagree with much of what mindset said, but i'm not going around saying he's fucking clueless or full of shit. if it's disinformation, by all means help correct it, but people will be more inclined to listen without the insults and diarrhea pouring out of your mouth.

you're right...typical floating floors aren't 3-4 layers. the 'cushions' i believe are the thick rubber pucks usually placed under the framing of the floating floor to decouple it from the actual floor. (actually going back and reading i see he was talking about walls when he said that, but same principle i believe.) the 'noise reducer' would be the insulation to go inbetween the framing of the new floor. (or walls) you know...rockwool, oc703, whatever. if 'you're' so brilliant to go around correcting disinformation, you should have at least some deductive skills. mindset was using wrong terms for some things...but easy enough to figure out if you think about it for a second.

anyway...i don't doubt your knowledge. it's just to me you come off like a complete asshole when you dispense it.

 

[Seeker of Rock]

Rick posts a lot here, and even though some suggestions are overcomplicated I agree, is a good resource. I think there are some flaws with mindset's suggestions as well. For example, standard construction stud spacing is 16"oc to give enough fastening support for what you will treat your wall with, as you said, sheetrock. From 0 to four feet, you will get exactly 4 studs on this spacing as opposed to three. Especially if you are only 6', I wouldn't spread the studs further apart. I would use 15" spacing. Less structure=more vibration, and if I read you right, vibration is what you don't want.

And the floor, you just want it to be framed, suspended from what will now be your subfloor (old finish floor in reality) and the crossmembers nailed to the studs, and a simple step up as you enter. Yeah, you should put some rigid insulation in between, but not layer upon layer. You would be wasting your money and, given the average ceiling height is about 8', narrowing your inside height to less than you already should be, unless you have high ceilings. I know from experience Rick is a bit forward sometimes, but he has some good info, too. I haven't followed his or nightfly or Rod or even Ethan's advices, with some liberal interpretations and changes, in my project, but Rick made me think about some things that I would've done differently, if not for his intervention, along the way.
What you need is not too complex, and with a $1,500 budget, you're in like flint, with money left over for a decent mic.

 

[Mindset]

I'm just getting information that was given to me by a real producer & engineer, one that has a REALLY great track record (Destiny's Child, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Pantera, Janet Jackson, Dr Dre, Kanye West etc) I go to school at Dallas Sound Labs, and just passing knowledge of how pro-studios were set-up. Maybe I got some of the things wrong, but I do think that dumb fucks like you misunderstand people a lot, because your in your little world of 'being right' all the time.

Anyways, I just figured that a lot of us might not be in the professional studio side of things, or however you want to word it, though some are... There's a lot of us that got the 'project studios' and home studio thing going on.

 

[Seeker of Rock]

Maybe I got some of the things wrong, but I do think that dumb fucks like you misunderstand people a lot, because your in your little world of 'being right' all the time. QUOTE]

Are you addressing me as a dumb fuck, little Cock-Gobbler? Go back to school, boy, or if you want to battle me let's bring it to the Cave.
I only mentioned that I didn't agree with a few of your ideas, namely the one that suggests layer upon layer of flooring. If it is just to buffer his wife's singing and he has a concrete slab for a floor, likely not much of the sound from a vocalist would penetrate that. If he wants something more, I think he could build one suspended floor and be done with it.

 

[notbradsohner]

I don't understand how people can get so upset when smart people like Rick correct their information. If you think he is being rude about it, many times he is correcting safety issues. Being harsh is the only way to get the message through some of the thick heads here. Calm down, and listen up.

 

[Mindset]

No I'm not addressing you as one lol. I'm addressing Rick. IF I came out at someone as "Oh my god this dumb ass, no it's such and such is correct" or if somone said something and you reply "What the fuck are you talking about?" how would someone percieve that? As just correcting? Naw, not in my book. You were more polite than he was at that point.

ATTACHED IS SCANNED PARTS OF MY TEXTBOOK.. MAYBE YOU CAN EXPLAIN TO ME EXACTLY WHAT THEY MEAN. Explained to me by the teacher.

Maybe I got some of the things wrong, but I do think that dumb fucks like you misunderstand people a lot, because your in your little world of 'being right' all the time. QUOTE]

Are you addressing me as a dumb fuck, little Cock-Gobbler? Go back to school, boy, or if you want to battle me let's bring it to the Cave.
I only mentioned that I didn't agree with a few of your ideas, namely the one that suggests layer upon layer of flooring. If it is just to buffer his wife's singing and he has a concrete slab for a floor, likely not much of the sound from a vocalist would penetrate that. If he wants something more, I think he could build one suspended floor and be done with it.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

it's just to me you come off like a complete asshole when you dispense it.

Ok, but as opposed to what?...people who dispense information that is incorrect are ok in your book I suppose huh? Look, I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't see it the way I do. If I read posts that I know are either incorrect, or lacking in clarity and scope, I'm gonna say something, regardless if you don't like the way I come off. And btw Mr. Netiquette, get a grip. I mean no harm, only insight, cause when push comes to shove...if I built something according to something someone posted on a forum....and it was WRONG...and I just spent a bunch of time and money......I"D BE FUCKING PISSED!!! At least when I post an opinion or solution for people, I offer one or more of the following:
1. An expert status disclaimer so the person I am responding to, knows I am not an expert.
2. A drawing showing EXACTLY what I am trying to convey.
3. A link to information if I don't want to appear as if "I" am responsible for it , and usually this info is posted BY experts who ARE.
4. A request for more information from the threads author.
5 One or MORE solutions...in verbose detail.
6 An apology if I am wrong....which so far hasnt occured to the point I wasted peoples time and money...well, maybe your time if you didn't like my post.


But just to show I'm here to help.. lets start with #4 but remember #1.
Ok, me_kaush, lets get some facts straight.

First off, WHERE are these neighbors? Above? Adjacent apartment on the same floor? Are there neighbors on the other side of the existing wall you want to use as one wall of the booth?

What is this "false" ceiling made of?
Please give me an accurate height from existing floor to this false ceiling.

Have you had neighbors complain already? If so, where is their apartment?

Where do you located(country)

Is there a building inspection department? The reason I ask, is in my country, you are NOT allowed to partition off existing space without obtaining permission by virtue of obtaining a building PERMIT. There are various reasons for this. For one, egress(safety). For another..minimum room size requirements. For another..electrical. For another, HVAC...as should you block off either a supply or return duct from the existing room, the HVAC will not function correctly. Another is to guarantee your construction meets minimum building codes. Another is hardware safety. For instance, should you inadvertantly place a latchset that locks from the outside, someone could get locked in this space. Another is material.. some people will use ANYTHING at thier disposal, to build something that is plain unsafe....like CARDBOARD as shiething ...and don't laugh...I've seen it happen.

Which brings up the question of PLEXIGLASS. Forget it. It has a lousy Transmission Loss(TL) characteristic, its VERY expensive, and any thickness that would match the TL of the adjacent wall would take your WHOLE budget for one sheet. And THEN, try to cut 1/2" plex...hahahahaha! Have fun. Not only that, you'd need TWO leafs to create an airgap. In fact, personally, I'd forget using plex or glass PERIOD.

Which brings to mind your drawing. This is the problem with sketching things that take DIMENSIONAL space to build. Your simple line drawing doesnt reflect reality. Your drawing suggests LARGE windows on each side of the door. Ha...heres the reality. Even if the wall was 60"(5'), a 32" minimum size door leaves 28". Split it in two for each side and that leaves 14". By the time you add framing for the door(double stud to provide support for a SOLID CORE door, and fraiming for the window, trim etc, you'll be lucky to have a window on each side wider than 8". Hardly worth the trouble. So much for sketchs I see people here all the time with line drawings that may look good, but when it comes time to build,...they scratch their head and go....oh, I forgot that a stud is 1 1/2" thick...oh....and its 3 1/2" wide...crap, now what do I do? I didn't ALLOW for REAL STUFF!!!

Next...since you are ONLY trying to keep sound from transmitting to adjacent neighbors space, and NOT your apartment, I would FORGET a floating floor, and concentrate on THOSE partitions(including ceiling) that seperate you from your neighbor. In this case, that means ONE existing wall and the ceiling...
But without knowing SPECIFIC information(like neighbors location and EXACT existing construction, it would be futile for me to suggest anything positive.
Personally though, from what I DO know, I would build TWO walls as you show. Forget glass. Frame the end wall for a solid core door. Depending on neighbors location, I'd build a covering for the existing window which allows for the application of RESILIANT CHANNEL to be place OVER the window. However, this may NOT be code compliant by virtue of safety concerns. If that were the case, you may NOT be able to cover this window which MAY negate any other solutions by virtue of sound transmission THROUGH this window glass. By virtue of diffraction, Sound may propogate to a neighbors adjacent window, but thats hard to say.

The point being, you NEED to decouple 2 layers of drywall on the ENTIRE interior leaf. This means, depending on the nature of the existing dropped ceiling, you MAY need to actually frame another ceiling support from the new walls to the existing wall. Then this will support a new DECOUPLED ceiling leaf by virtue of RESILIANT CHANNEL which will support this new cieling leaf.

However, this is ALL pure conjecture. IF, your wifes vocal db profile reaches high SPL levels, a more robust solution must be utilized. You see, without knowing PRECISE knowlege, we have no way of predicting actuall performance of any solution offered. For instance, if your wifes vocal db profile overcomes the transmission rating of ANY solution offered, whats the point? So, what I suggest is this.

The very FIRST thing I would find out ...is HOW LOUD DO THE NEIGHBORS HEAR HER VOICE???????????? In fact, you need to LISTEN in THEIR apartment. Only you can do this. Secondly, your ears tell you NOTHING. You need to MEASURE the SPL in YOUR apartment as well as THIER apartment. Only then will you be able to tell how much transmission is occuring through the existing partitions, which will THEN tell you what your target TRANSMISSION LOSS RATING should be. Untill then, you are spitting in the wind my friend. You and we can only guess, which means, ANY solution offered is subject to total failure...which means...yup..you got it.....WASTED TIME AND MONEY. So, thats what "I" would do. You need to FIND OUT exactly what is going on and only then design a solution to meet the problem.

BTW, I hope these apartments are NOT fed from a common HVAC. IF so, depending on the circumstances, you may NOT be able to successfully build this. On the otherhand, info is king. Which actually brings up another question. Exactly how are you going to VENTILATE this space. Remember, "soundproof" is analogous to "airproof", and if I know singers, they like to breath.
fitZ

 

[notbradsohner]

Hey Mindset, thanks for the anonymous negative rep, you pussy.

 

[Mindset]

are you dumb enough not to know it was me? how would you want me to let you know it more clearer.

 

[notbradsohner]

how would you want me to let you know it more clearer.

First, use correct grammar. Then sign it.

 

[thegunshyboy]

Ok, but as opposed to what?...people who dispense information that is incorrect are ok in your book I suppose huh? Look, I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't see it the way I do. If I read posts that I know are either incorrect, or lacking in clarity and scope, I'm gonna say something, regardless if you don't like the way I come off. And btw Mr. Netiquette, get a grip. I mean no harm, only insight, cause when push comes to shove...if I built something according to something someone posted on a forum....and it was WRONG...and I just spent a bunch of time and money......I"D BE FUCKING PISSED!!! At least when I post an opinion or solution for people, I offer one or more of the following:
1. An expert status disclaimer so the person I am responding to, knows I am not an expert.
2. A drawing showing EXACTLY what I am trying to convey.
3. A link to information if I don't want to appear as if "I" am responsible for it , and usually this info is posted BY experts who ARE.
4. A request for more information from the threads author.
5 One or MORE solutions...in verbose detail.
6 An apology if I am wrong....which so far hasnt occured to the point I wasted peoples time and money...well, maybe your time if you didn't like my post.


But just to show I'm here to help.. lets start with #4 but remember #1.
Ok, me_kaush, lets get some facts straight.

First off, WHERE are these neighbors? Above? Adjacent apartment on the same floor? Are there neighbors on the other side of the existing wall you want to use as one wall of the booth?

What is this "false" ceiling made of?
Please give me an accurate height from existing floor to this false ceiling.

Have you had neighbors complain already? If so, where is their apartment?

Where do you located(country)

Is there a building inspection department? The reason I ask, is in my country, you are NOT allowed to partition off existing space without obtaining permission by virtue of obtaining a building PERMIT. There are various reasons for this. For one, egress(safety). For another..minimum room size requirements. For another..electrical. For another, HVAC...as should you block off either a supply or return duct from the existing room, the HVAC will not function correctly. Another is to guarantee your construction meets minimum building codes. Another is hardware safety. For instance, should you inadvertantly place a latchset that locks from the outside, someone could get locked in this space. Another is material.. some people will use ANYTHING at thier disposal, to build something that is plain unsafe....like CARDBOARD as shiething ...and don't laugh...I've seen it happen.

Which brings up the question of PLEXIGLASS. Forget it. It has a lousy Transmission Loss(TL) characteristic, its VERY expensive, and any thickness that would match the TL of the adjacent wall would take your WHOLE budget for one sheet. And THEN, try to cut 1/2" plex...hahahahaha! Have fun. Not only that, you'd need TWO leafs to create an airgap. In fact, personally, I'd forget using plex or glass PERIOD.

Which brings to mind your drawing. This is the problem with sketching things that take DIMENSIONAL space to build. Your simple line drawing doesnt reflect reality. Your drawing suggests LARGE windows on each side of the door. Ha...heres the reality. Even if the wall was 60"(5'), a 32" minimum size door leaves 28". Split it in two for each side and that leaves 14". By the time you add framing for the door(double stud to provide support for a SOLID CORE door, and fraiming for the window, trim etc, you'll be lucky to have a window on each side wider than 8". Hardly worth the trouble. So much for sketchs I see people here all the time with line drawings that may look good, but when it comes time to build,...they scratch their head and go....oh, I forgot that a stud is 1 1/2" thick...oh....and its 3 1/2" wide...crap, now what do I do? I didn't ALLOW for REAL STUFF!!!

Next...since you are ONLY trying to keep sound from transmitting to adjacent neighbors space, and NOT your apartment, I would FORGET a floating floor, and concentrate on THOSE partitions(including ceiling) that seperate you from your neighbor. In this case, that means ONE existing wall and the ceiling...
But without knowing SPECIFIC information(like neighbors location and EXACT existing construction, it would be futile for me to suggest anything positive.
Personally though, from what I DO know, I would build TWO walls as you show. Forget glass. Frame the end wall for a solid core door. Depending on neighbors location, I'd build a covering for the existing window which allows for the application of RESILIANT CHANNEL to be place OVER the window. However, this may NOT be code compliant by virtue of safety concerns. If that were the case, you may NOT be able to cover this window which MAY negate any other solutions by virtue of sound transmission THROUGH this window glass. By virtue of diffraction, Sound may propogate to a neighbors adjacent window, but thats hard to say.

The point being, you NEED to decouple 2 layers of drywall on the ENTIRE interior leaf. This means, depending on the nature of the existing dropped ceiling, you MAY need to actually frame another ceiling support from the new walls to the existing wall. Then this will support a new DECOUPLED ceiling leaf by virtue of RESILIANT CHANNEL which will support this new cieling leaf.

However, this is ALL pure conjecture. IF, your wifes vocal db profile reaches high SPL levels, a more robust solution must be utilized. You see, without knowing PRECISE knowlege, we have no way of predicting actuall performance of any solution offered. For instance, if your wifes vocal db profile overcomes the transmission rating of ANY solution offered, whats the point? So, what I suggest is this.

The very FIRST thing I would find out ...is HOW LOUD DO THE NEIGHBORS HEAR HER VOICE???????????? In fact, you need to LISTEN in THEIR apartment. Only you can do this. Secondly, your ears tell you NOTHING. You need to MEASURE the SPL in YOUR apartment as well as THIER apartment. Only then will you be able to tell how much transmission is occuring through the existing partitions, which will THEN tell you what your target TRANSMISSION LOSS RATING should be. Untill then, you are spitting in the wind my friend. You and we can only guess, which means, ANY solution offered is subject to total failure...which means...yup..you got it.....WASTED TIME AND MONEY. So, thats what "I" would do. You need to FIND OUT exactly what is going on and only then design a solution to meet the problem.

BTW, I hope these apartments are NOT fed from a common HVAC. IF so, depending on the circumstances, you may NOT be able to successfully build this. On the otherhand, info is king. Which actually brings up another question. Exactly how are you going to VENTILATE this space. Remember, "soundproof" is analogous to "airproof", and if I know singers, they like to breath.
fitZ

now, that post is full of good info, and you didn't call anyone an asshole.
i've looked at some of your other posts too. some great knowledge shared, i just seemed to be always bumping into the threads where you were...um...correcting people.

 

[me_kaush]

Ok, me_kaush, lets get some facts straight.
** Hi, i will try my best to reply inline, though for some things like SPL, i'd have to google and try to understand a bit more.

First off, WHERE are these neighbors? Above? Adjacent apartment on the same floor? Are there neighbors on the other side of the existing wall you want to use as one wall of the booth?

** My apartment is on the 4th floor in a 14-floor building. So there are neighbors to my left, right, top and bottom. But the complaining one is on my right side and i've attached a diagram of the top view. The sound gets to him thro' the right side wall that we share as well as thro' my door to his.

What is this "false" ceiling made of?
Please give me an accurate height from existing floor to this false ceiling.

*** Sorry if i gave you this impression, but no, there's no false ceiling already built. I drew it as something i need to do in my section. As of now, the floor-to-ceiling (both concrete) is 8ft.

Have you had neighbors complain already? If so, where is their apartment?
*** Yes, just one, to my right.

Where do you located(country)
*** In New York City, USA

Is there a building inspection department? The reason I ask, is in my country, you are NOT allowed to partition off existing space without obtaining permission by virtue of obtaining a building PERMIT. There are various reasons for this. For one, egress(safety). For another..minimum room size requirements. For another..electrical. For another, HVAC...as should you block off either a supply or return duct from the existing room, the HVAC will not function correctly. Another is to guarantee your construction meets minimum building codes. Another is hardware safety. For instance, should you inadvertantly place a latchset that locks from the outside, someone could get locked in this space. Another is material.. some people will use ANYTHING at thier disposal, to build something that is plain unsafe....like CARDBOARD as shiething ...and don't laugh...I've seen it happen.

*** I'd have to get my condominium board's approval if i need to alter the structure in any way (like knocking down a wall), but if i'm only building something that is not load-bearing, then it is fine. This is to the best of my knowledge, but i will check with my building supervisor. Tks for your note on the HVAC. That thing never occured to me. Btw, in manhattan, i think the only restriction is in how large a room can be, not how small ). Just kidding.

Which brings up the question of PLEXIGLASS. Forget it. It has a lousy Transmission Loss(TL) characteristic, its VERY expensive, and any thickness that would match the TL of the adjacent wall would take your WHOLE budget for one sheet. And THEN, try to cut 1/2" plex...hahahahaha! Have fun. Not only that, you'd need TWO leafs to create an airgap. In fact, personally, I'd forget using plex or glass PERIOD.

*** The only reason i prefer some type of transparent material is because any type of partition that actually blocks light will make my apartment look even smaller . My idea was to put plexiglass floor-to-ceiling and then add some sound-absorbing material to the inside that i can clip on to the inside during her practice, then remove it once she's done.

Which brings to mind your drawing. This is the problem with sketching things that take DIMENSIONAL space to build. Your simple line drawing doesnt reflect reality. Your drawing suggests LARGE windows on each side of the door. Ha...heres the reality. Even if the wall was 60"(5'), a 32" minimum size door leaves 28". Split it in two for each side and that leaves 14". By the time you add framing for the door(double stud to provide support for a SOLID CORE door, and fraiming for the window, trim etc, you'll be lucky to have a window on each side wider than 8". Hardly worth the trouble. So much for sketchs I see people here all the time with line drawings that may look good, but when it comes time to build,...they scratch their head and go....oh, I forgot that a stud is 1 1/2" thick...oh....and its 3 1/2" wide...crap, now what do I do? I didn't ALLOW for REAL STUFF!!!

*** Yes, sorry, it was just a sketch i drew to illustrate better. I do realise the measurements may need to be more accurate for the actual building part.

Next...since you are ONLY trying to keep sound from transmitting to adjacent neighbors space, and NOT your apartment, I would FORGET a floating floor, and concentrate on THOSE partitions(including ceiling) that seperate you from your neighbor. In this case, that means ONE existing wall and the ceiling...
But without knowing SPECIFIC information(like neighbors location and EXACT existing construction, it would be futile for me to suggest anything positive.
Personally though, from what I DO know, I would build TWO walls as you show. Forget glass. Frame the end wall for a solid core door. Depending on neighbors location, I'd build a covering for the existing window which allows for the application of RESILIANT CHANNEL to be place OVER the window. However, this may NOT be code compliant by virtue of safety concerns. If that were the case, you may NOT be able to cover this window which MAY negate any other solutions by virtue of sound transmission THROUGH this window glass. By virtue of diffraction, Sound may propogate to a neighbors adjacent window, but thats hard to say.

*** I have read about the 2 window setup, but that's generally been to keep outside noise from coming in. Can it also serve the reverse purpose?

The point being, you NEED to decouple 2 layers of drywall on the ENTIRE interior leaf. This means, depending on the nature of the existing dropped ceiling, you MAY need to actually frame another ceiling support from the new walls to the existing wall. Then this will support a new DECOUPLED ceiling leaf by virtue of RESILIANT CHANNEL which will support this new cieling leaf.

However, this is ALL pure conjecture. IF, your wifes vocal db profile reaches high SPL levels, a more robust solution must be utilized. You see, without knowing PRECISE knowlege, we have no way of predicting actuall performance of any solution offered. For instance, if your wifes vocal db profile overcomes the transmission rating of ANY solution offered, whats the point? So, what I suggest is this.

The very FIRST thing I would find out ...is HOW LOUD DO THE NEIGHBORS HEAR HER VOICE???????????? In fact, you need to LISTEN in THEIR apartment. Only you can do this. Secondly, your ears tell you NOTHING. You need to MEASURE the SPL in YOUR apartment as well as THIER apartment. Only then will you be able to tell how much transmission is occuring through the existing partitions, which will THEN tell you what your target TRANSMISSION LOSS RATING should be. Untill then, you are spitting in the wind my friend. You and we can only guess, which means, ANY solution offered is subject to total failure...which means...yup..you got it.....WASTED TIME AND MONEY. So, thats what "I" would do. You need to FIND OUT exactly what is going on and only then design a solution to meet the problem.

*** Unfortunately i don't think i can go to my neighbor's house and try to listen to see how much sound comes through. I've tried talking to him and he's proving to be a complete ass. From googling i find that SPL is sound pressure level, i wonder if there's a software tool i can install on my pc (or mac) to measure it rather than having to buy a tool for this. Do you know?

BTW, I hope these apartments are NOT fed from a common HVAC. IF so, depending on the circumstances, you may NOT be able to successfully build this. On the otherhand, info is king. Which actually brings up another question. Exactly how are you going to VENTILATE this space. Remember, "soundproof" is analogous to "airproof", and if I know singers, they like to breath.

** We have centralised AC/Heater. The radiator is in next to the middle window (3rd). As for ventilation, my wife probably needs to open the window just a bit, and it probably won't matter much that sound gets out that way since all other windows will be closed, so there will be lesser sound coming back in?!

If instead of all this, i can buy a 2-person vocal booth 6ft by 4ft and around 6ft high that has 3 sides with the 4th side being my already existing window, that i can dismantle, that would be perfect. But from the ones i've researched the price is a bit steep for these.

Tks a lot for all your time and advice.

fitZ

 

[gummblefish]

How big are those closets?