Need critique on reverb for this bluegrassy tune

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banjo71

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I've been working on finding a good reverb for this style of music. People have going towards a dry sound, but still with some kind of character resembling reverb. This song has Waves Renaissance Reverberation on it. I still haven't learned enough about tailoring all of the controls in reberb, so I'm using a preset called "bedroom". I like it, but I'm also fickle and open to suggestions. Please give it a listen and let me know your opinion on this, or on anything else you hear that could improve.

I'm finally getting some work that is substantial. Although I can record, I've been getting tons of work through people recording onto their portastudios, and they make wav files and I get to mix in Pro Tools. That's how this one was done. In fact, this is the group I'm in, Illinois Rail. Peggy Schippert wrote the song, and sings the song. I think she has an incredible voice.

Anyway, here's the song:

View attachment Take That Train.mp3
View attachment Take That Train no2.mp3
 
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I was taught to point out the good, first- and there is much good in that song and your mix. Balance of the instruments (vox included) is good. I especially appreciate the banjo NOT being too loud. The song is excellent- more on that later.

IMO, the song is more than a little boomy and muddy. To my ear, the sound being filtered through MP3 and my computer speaker's limitations (my computer speakers have a sub, fwiw,) it has too much reverb. I think you might pull the bass out of the mix and put reverb on that mix, then put the (dry) bass back in for your final mix. Or, put some reverb on the vocals, only... no, scratch that last thing- just listened again, and the lead vocals are a little muddy and indistinct, already. I'd like to hear it with no, or very little reverb; my gut feeling is it would sound better.

I am not really liking the bass in the mix- too boomy, too "bass-y." Sounds like an electric bass DI's, all of the character of an upright bass- the slap, for instance- is gone. The bass is, to me, distracting. I tried turning my 'puter speaker's bass all the way down, and found it already IS at it's minimum- so I gotta repeat- TOO MUCH BOOM IN THE BASS. This ain't rock n roll, match the bass to the genre'.

Now, about that song... please, put me in touch with the singer/songwriter. I'd like to perform the song (not for money) and want to respect her intellectual property. PM me her email addy, if you would. Thanks.
 
Beautiful tune. I think her vocal needs some definition and the whole mix could benefit from some middle-side sparkle.
Levels sound good to me, but seems a bit middle heavy, which muddies it all up slightly.
I don't hear too much reverb or bass, but I'm on phones.

You're lucky to be in such company. Good luck.
 
Very good, reverb good. I hear a hiss with the singing but it doesn't sound like general gated mike hiss. I agree the bass is boomy, and not well defined. Experiment with the EQ and level. Start by trying to add some bight between 1 an 2 KHz and see if you can reduce the boom and generally give it a lighter touch.
 
I thought the reverb was nice. I wouldn't change it if it were me. Very good performances.

A boomy bass note or two jump out. Only a guess but I'd say it's around 100-140hz. I'd find the exact spot, notch out 6dbs or so and then boost the overall track by 1-2dbs.

I can hear some cloudiness on the vocal. Like somewhere between 600-800hz. Try to find a spot to cut somewhere in there but be *real* careful that you don't make the vocal sound harsh.
 
It's hard to tell what part of the chain the vocal distortion is being introduced. I get the feeling it might be at the mastering end, when other things might have had more attention. Anyway, you can go back to the raw vocal takes to see if the problem is in the recording, and work through the mix from there. Never allow your interest in reverb to distract you from the vocal treatment :)
 
I really do appreciate everybody's input. We do this one with an electric bass, and so I worked on that and the eq problems that I could hear and your suggestions. Her vocal comes out much clearer, and it just sounds better to my ears because of what I learned here. The second mix on the song should appear on the op soon.
 
Sorry Banjo, I prefer the 1st version... (the problem with advice is that it is usually wrong) I still hear the vocal "fuzz" in the 2nd version, which at the moment is my biggest bug..
 
The banjo and vocal on the second mix sound very thin. The bass is lower in the mix. In short mix2 is not nearly as full as mix1.
 
My take:

The bass is uncharacteristic of bluegrass: notes sound too long; no transient thump....sounds like electric bass...and really moofy. Kind of a flaw. Need upright!

I didn't hear distortion in the vocal. Might be my bad HF hearing; but it does sound like a condenser mike catching every smack of the lips and swallow she makes. Sounds just like my KSM27 Shures. Harsh. Strange. A good dynamic mike can smooth that stuff right out. A cheap dynamic...like a 58...will prolly do a better job, I think. Homoginize the stuff that comes out her mouth.

The freq spectrum shows a STRONG bump in 500-1K range. I did a little fiddlin' with it. The banjo and mando are mainly responsible. The guitar is scooped in the mids. Usually it's backer in the mix, but retains more of its mids....fills out the sound, but barely audible...until it's featured. It sounds better with some EQ adjustin', but it has to be applied in individual tracks to keep from gutting other elements. I reckon.

A really nice tune. Nice playin'. The bass just sounds non-compliant w/ the genre. That'd go a long way toward fixin' things. MHO
 
I agree with jeffmaher partially, its up to the band whether they want to play electric or upright, both have a distinct sound and if that's what theyre going for go for it all the way. The playing technique however is something different, hear some of the modern upright players playing electric, like the bassist for Deer Tick or the Avett Bros. They're playing upright parts, on an electric. It translates well if you dont switch too much of your technique. but that's all in the hands and ears of the bassist of course.
 
Mountain [hey neighbor]

Been thinkingnabout what you said. And I agree, to a point.

Thing is, that blugrass instrumentation drives the playout. Short note durations, strong transients....the reason bluegrass guitarists have their action set one degree before unplayable heighth.

And the 2 and 4 on the mando, the 1 and 3 on the guit, the triplet figures in eighths on the banjo, the 4on the floor of the bass..with occasional eighths: it's a pleasing formula. Made up of lots of space that makes the grind of a bluegrass machine really funky. The fiddle sustains, but it's HF...and very suprano vocal-like. On top of the woof and warp.

A boomy, sustaining bass swallows the space that makes the machine work, I think.

Anyway, I was thinking about how to illustrate my point, and thought of an old-time stride pianist. He lets the notes on the left hand sustain. Just kills the feel. No counterpoint to the right hand...or at least a lot less effective.

Just thinkin'. I kind of concluded...after listening to this piece, that the even and sustaining bass is wrong...just wrong...and not a stylistic option. It just doesn't seem to work well with the other stuff. Eats up the space between the other parts and kills the groove. It ceases to be 'grassie'. Like Geezer from Sabbath playing with Rice and Grissman. MHO :^) [ok...I'm bored]

But I gotta say, I was really impressed with the mando playing on the cut: that muted chop isn't as easy as it sounds...I can't do it.
 
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