Need advice with my home recording

[JohnG]

Hello everybody... nice forum...

Well, I'm recording my band's demo and I want to hear a few advice from the experts. I'm using the following setting for the guitars... (Trademark 60 and Les Paul Standard). Now that we recorded a few songs with that setting, we change the guitar amp for a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL100 with the 1960A 4x12 cabinet… Much better indeed…

For recording everything we have a Roland 2480.

Now that I’m using the Marshall and 4x12 cabinet…

What's the best mic for recording the guitars and which is the best way to mic the 4x12 cab to capture the best sound?

I have 3 songs in Myspace.com… there you can listen on the sound quality we have with the Trademark 60 and the Gibson Les Paul.

Here is the link – www.myspace.com/templeofheads

 

[LemonTree]

what mics do you have at your disposal?

 

[JohnG]

what mics do you have at your disposal?

We are using SM57 and KSM35 (Shure)... We also have a beta 87A but we are not using it.

 

[soundchaser59]

I cannot find any reference to a "KSM35"....??? You sure about that number?

Do you have a Beta87A or 87C? The 87C will have less room noise pickup than the supercardioid 87A.

The 57 is probably your best bet there.

Assuming you have great tone coming from the amp in the first place, and knowing that the 57 is one of the standard choices for mic'ing an amp, the rest of the equation is mic placement.

The only way you can know where to put the mic is to kneel down in front of your amp and pretend your ear is the mic. A lot of guys make the mistake of standing 6 feet away from the amp and they love the sound, then put the mic 6 inches from the speaker center dome and assume it will "hear" the same sound that they hear with their ears. Not so. You have to find that "great sound" that you want the mic to pick up by putting your ear int he same place where you will be putting the mic. If it sounds harsh and buzzy and wax papered with your ear touching the grill cloth in front of the speaker dome, then it will sound that way to the mic also.

 

[JohnG]

I'm sorry... I mean a KSM32...

I cannot find any reference to a "KSM35"....??? You sure about that number?

Do you have a Beta87A or 87C? The 87C will have less room noise pickup than the supercardioid 87A.

The 57 is probably your best bet there.

Assuming you have great tone coming from the amp in the first place, and knowing that the 57 is one of the standard choices for mic'ing an amp, the rest of the equation is mic placement.

The only way you can know where to put the mic is to kneel down in front of your amp and pretend your ear is the mic. A lot of guys make the mistake of standing 6 feet away from the amp and they love the sound, then put the mic 6 inches from the speaker center dome and assume it will "hear" the same sound that they hear with their ears. Not so. You have to find that "great sound" that you want the mic to pick up by putting your ear int he same place where you will be putting the mic. If it sounds harsh and buzzy and wax papered with your ear touching the grill cloth in front of the speaker dome, then it will sound that way to the mic also.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

Man, don't put your ear right up to the speaker cab....You'll kill yourself! Just listen to what the mic is picking up through your monitors. Place the mic that way.

 

[warble]

...The only way you can know where to put the mic is to kneel down in front of your amp and pretend your ear is the mic. A lot of guys make the mistake of standing 6 feet away from the amp and they love the sound, then put the mic 6 inches from the speaker center dome and assume it will "hear" the same sound that they hear with their ears. Not so. You have to find that "great sound" that you want the mic to pick up by putting your ear int he same place where you will be putting the mic. If it sounds harsh and buzzy and wax papered with your ear touching the grill cloth in front of the speaker dome, then it will sound that way to the mic also.

You're kidding, right?

 

[FALKEN]

also it can help to turn the amp down and place while wearing headphones.

 

[soundchaser59]

If your amp is too loud to put your ear in front of, then its too loud to record. Ear shattering volume is not necessary at all to get killer guitar tracks. How many of the so-called "legendary" guitar tracks of classic rock were recorded with a little 10 or 15 watt practice amp that couldn't move my farts out of the way with SPL...... a bunch!

 

[Chibi Nappa]

If your amp is too loud to put your ear in front of, then its too loud to record. Ear shattering volume is not necessary at all to get killer guitar tracks. How many of the so-called "legendary" guitar tracks of classic rock were recorded with a little 10 or 15 watt practice amp that couldn't move my farts out of the way with SPL...... a bunch!

And other "legendary" guitar parts were so loud you had to wear ear protection just to be in the same room with the guitar cabs. It works both ways.

 

[soundchaser59]

Yes, I can absolutely see it going both ways. Obviously, I would not put my ear 6 inches from a Twin Reverb that is cranked up load enough to give that legendary soul food speaker distortion that I love so much. If a guy is using an amp that must be cranked up loud enough to make you blow snot in order to get the right tone, then Falken's suggestion to listen to the headphones or the monitors to hear what the mic is getting is probably the way to go.

But so many of the newer amps with pre-gain structures, especially the solid state and the modelers, will sound the same whether they are whispering at 3am or rattling the windows at 12 noon, and they are made so that speaker volume and output power do not enter into the final tone formula. In this case, I can use my ear to place the mic, and I can record at volumes that wont get the swat team outside my house at 3am. At least turn it down long enough to get the mic placement right, then stand back and turn it back up to 11 and hit record.

My point was basically this: dont make the mistake of thinking that the great sound you love when you are standing 10 or 20 feet away from the amp playing window rattling screaming leads will be the exact same sound that the mic will record 3 inches from the grill cloth. A guitarist must always consider mic placement and do test recordings and test playbacks before committing to a recorded sound in his mix. I would still maintain that the 3 ingredients in great guitar amp recording are amp tone, mic choice, and mic placement, and that raw ear splitting SPL and volume are not essential in order to get a great recording.

Now.....with that being said.......I confess.......I will be the first one to want the amp turned up to 11 so I can practice my SRV impersonation when no one is looking.

 

[JohnG]

Hey guys... thanks a lot for your advise. Keep them comming...

 

[JohnG]

I recorded one song with my new Marshall JCM2000 DSL... Here is the link so you can here it and give me your opinion. I used a Les Paul Standard and Crybaby 535Q... directly to the Marshall...

http://www.myspace.com/templeofheads

 

[giraffe]

If your amp is too loud to put your ear in front of, then its too loud to record. Ear shattering volume is not necessary at all to get killer guitar tracks.

ummmmmmmmmm................. it's not that you're wrong, but this is anything but absolute. sometimes youneed to move the speakers to get the sound you want.
sometimes you need to be loud.

How many of the so-called "legendary" guitar tracks of classic rock were recorded with a little 10 or 15 watt practice amp that couldn't move my farts out of the way with SPL...... a bunch!

this is true, but some sounds you just can't get out of thoes small amps.

 

[brummygit]

ummmmmmmmmm................. it's not that you're wrong, but this is anything but absolute. sometimes youneed to move the speakers to get the sound you want.
sometimes you need to be loud.


this is true, but some sounds you just can't get out of thoes small amps.

very true. the way a marshall amp gets driven by a les paul - wow. i dont actually record amps directly much, but more use effects pedals, etc, but from my experience of marshall amps (and most amps i've tried to be fair) - turning the volume up is NOT just an increase in volume, but an actual change in the tone and various other characteristics of the whole sound.

yes you can get a killer guitar tone out of a small amp

but i'd never disregard shifting the mic to an 'ear comfortable' level away from a 4x12 cab with a 100watt head, and turning that fucker right up.

 

[JohnG]

New Songs @ Myspace... what do you think?

http://www.myspace.com/templeofheads