Need a mic for soft, bossa nova vocals

F

freeztar

New member
BTW, I've read the faqs, including Harvey's awesome post :)

I'm in the market to get a LD condenser mic. I would primarily be using it to record vocals for bossa nova music (soft and whispery vocals). It needs to be pretty hot to get clean tracks on quiet parts. Clarity and high freq. resolution are most important to me.

I'd like to spend $300 or less, but am willing to spend up to $500 if it will make an appreciable difference.

So far I have auditioned the Shure KSM27 and the Rode NT1A. I liked the KSM27 more because it had more presence, but the Rode was hotter. Can anyone recommend a mic that sounds similiar to the KSM27, but hotter? What other mics are worth auditioning at this point?
 
freeztar said:
BTW, I've read the faqs, including Harvey's awesome post :)

I'm in the market to get a LD condenser mic. I would primarily be using it to record vocals for bossa nova music (soft and whispery vocals). It needs to be pretty hot to get clean tracks on quiet parts. Clarity and high freq. resolution are most important to me.

I'd like to spend $300 or less, but am willing to spend up to $500 if it will make an appreciable difference.

So far I have auditioned the Shure KSM27 and the Rode NT1A. I liked the KSM27 more because it had more presence, but the Rode was hotter. Can anyone recommend a mic that sounds similiar to the KSM27, but hotter? What other mics are worth auditioning at this point?
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I'd look into the Marshall V69 and the V77 as well as the Studio Project multi-pattern tube mic, and the AT 4050 and 4060. Another contender might be the Shure SM-7. I haven't heard the better Rode or Cad mics, so I can't comment on them.
 
Harvey gives excellent advice (as usual!:))

I've been using using two 4033's for a couple of years now and am a big fan of them. However, I recently purchased a B.L.U.E Baby Bottle ($500) and was blown away by how hot this mic is!!!

Just another 2¢...

Earl
 
IMHO the T3 has better clarity than the V69ME.

Also the V69 is "hotter" and will therefore reveal the deficiencies of an acoustically untreated room more.

Chris
 
chessparov said:
IMHO the T3 has better clarity than the V69ME.

Also the V69 is "hotter" and will therefore reveal the deficiencies of an acoustically untreated room more.

Chris
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The TLM-103 has better clarity than the V69ME due to the elevated treble of the TLM-103. But, it won't give you the mellower sound of an Astrud Gilberto type voice like the V69ME will. Sometimes clarity is not as important as tone. This may be one of those times.

Most bossa nova vocals are recorded at point blank range (3" or less from the mic), so the room shouldn't be much of a factor. Just hanging a packing blanket behind the mic should eliminate most of the room sound.
 
Thanks Harvey for bringing up the point about close miking.

Has there been some typical EQing starting points with your SM7?

My guess is around 12 kHz using a shelf type of equalizer is a reasonable try, or has the "on board" EQ been enough?

Sorry if it wasn't clear, meant the Studio Projects T3 rather than the Neumann BTW.

Only recently been appreciating the fine balance between "warmth" (tone) and clarity.

Personal taste also can muddy :) the waters of course.

Chris
 
chessparov said:
Thanks Harvey for bringing up the point about close miking.

Has there been some typical EQing starting points with your SM7?

My guess is around 12 kHz using a shelf type of equalizer is a reasonable try, or has the "on board" EQ been enough?

Chris
Click to expand...
I try to avoid using any eq when recording vocals, so I mainly switch around mics till I get close to what I want. Then, during mixdown, I'll add some eq as needed.

This way, if a singer comes back next month to redo a line in a vocal, I know I'll be able to match the original sound without jumping thru hoops trying to remember the original eq settings.

I just leave the SM7 switches set to flat; I think Alex may have moved one of the switches once in about 5 years.
 
Thanks Harvey for the explanation.

Judging by my long gone Rode NT1, would assume the NT1A would probably keep the "family sound" of being a bright vocal microphone like the other Rode's (other than NTV?). Unlikely to be a first grab for Boss Nova style vocals then.

Chris
 
I wouldn't recommend any of these hyped colored mics for mellow bossa nova. And the T3, C1 and C3 fall in that category. So does NTK and most of the Røde mics. The TLM 103 falls in there, too.

I wouldn't even go for some of the more neutral, present, bright mics, like the AT40 series, AKG 414.

I'd go for something smoother with some tone.

Mics that have a more classic, natural warm sound would be MXL V69ME, ADK TC, SP TB1, GT44. Take a look at this mic characteristcs graph I'm working on. Something near the middle or darker end of the spectrum. Even a ribbon mic could work great. A nice dynamic would work, too.

Dan Richards
The Listening Sessions
The Project Studio Handbook
 
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Thanks for all the great info!

I'm definitly going to try the V69 as well as some of the "darker" mics listed by dot.

I hope to emulate a vocal sound like Joao Gilberto (guy who sings on "Girl from Ipanema"). Can anyone make a guess as to which microphone he may have used? "Girl from Ipanema" was recorded in 1963, which would seem to minimize the possibilities.

I currently use an AT PR99 and SM57 to record my voice and I don't like the results with either (I usually don't like the results anyway, but that's a different problem altogether :) . Based on my trials and Harvey's big post, I have decided to stick with a LD condenser as my next mic purchase.
Also based on Harvey's post, I would be surprised if Joao was using anything but a LD condenser. I'm also thinking that an omni condenser might help to capture the bossa-nova-style, classical guitar (any comments on this?).
 
I know when Jobin was on TV with Sinatra for one of his "Specials", they were using EV RE15's. Strongly suspect they used the RE15 and/or the RE16 for their album together at Reprise.

So therefore we already know the RE's "work"...

Chris
 
I did find some pictures on google that showed a young Joao Gilberto using a mic that looked like the RE-15. I also found an article from last year about a show he played at the Hollywood Bowl and he threatened to not continue because he was upset with the mic and wanted an AKG 414. Obviously his voice has changed over the years and this is probably indicative of his microphone preference change. Also technology has come a long way. I wonder which is a bigger determining factor.

In any case, both these mics are out of my price range :)
 
The biggest "determining factor", as you probably know, is whether the singer is producing the appropriate tone for any style to begin with.

Someone has "first dibs" on it, however one of my RE16's is up for sale at a very low price.
Supposed to let me know by this Tuesday.

I have two and need only one.
Just can me know if you want notification in case
it's still available.
We can discuss it further via PM in that event.

Chris
 
I think that the mic and the pre-amp chosen both are two halves of a complementary pair. I have used a Rode NTK and a Focusrite Trakmaster together on female vocals for bossas and sambas with a degree of success.

Failing that, a Beyer M-88 is always a reliable vocal mic for female vocals.

The use of a tube pre-amp will probably attenuate the brightness of many of the brighter mics in use.

On a good quality mic you can EQ the sound to suit your taste in any case. A few db difference in the 500 Hz-2kHz region and also the 10khz region will alter the brightness of most vocals to suit your backing. Compression often adds the required smoothness here - more important than EQ in many ways. I'm thinking Sade style vocals - but I may be wide of the mark here.
 
I read http://prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/7E01340C209C8C99862568AD0072955BBruce Richardson's scathing review of the MXL 2001P, and this put a good scare into me over Marshall mics.

Yes, I know Harvey likes Marshalls, and that counts for a whole lot with me.

:D

As a former networking editor for a national magazine, I put more confidence into a reviewer who will rise to the challenge and severly bash a piece of shit product. It takes balls and integrity to do this, in light of advertiser revenues, etc, that tend to make a reviewer more docile with crap products.

I read DOT's review of this mic, but I don't recall reading a DOT review where he trashes a crap product. This is not a flame of DOT, but perhaps a reflection of his style: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

BR's review of crappy electronics has me soured on Marshall. Cold-flow solder joints are not restricted to low-end products. If the company lets them through on one product, they can come through on all products.

The V69ME looks like a nice coloration complement to my existing mic, but the Marshall cheapie thing scares me. This is the newbie point of view.
 
Well Dot can certainly speak for himself. But I believe I have read his statement to the effect that he doesn't choose to review products he considers poor or substandard.

I'm very interested in this discussion as I'm looking to add a vocal mic on the warmer side for not a lot of money. My main vocal mic at the moment is the Marshall V77, which I really like. It would be nice to have a more colored option, however... Ah! I"m succumbing once again to G.A.S.

Fab
 
No flame toward DOT was intended nor implied. I figure he chooses not to review crap, and that is all right.

But... the BR review was quite scathing of the component quality in the MXL 2001. He made the point that he would be willing to sing the praises of other MXL mics of better quality, but so far nothing has come from it.

As for the V77, and looking for something with more color... I though the V77 was about as colored as it gets. DOTs chart makes it look that way except for possibly the Blueberry.
 
Actually it's the V69 that's supposed to be colored. The V77 isn't on the graph that I can see. I believe it's less colored and more clear - certainly it's clear to my ear, but I only have a few (cheaper) mics to compare it to.

What I'm trying to determine is, would the V69 be DIFFERENT enough, more colorful enough, to be worth getting as I already have the V77? Or should I be focusing on "tubey" sounding dynamics? (My only dynamic is a Shure 545).

Fab
 
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