mshilarious
Banned
Sillyhat said:
Is that a rule?
Is that a rule?
E
EDAN
New member
Sillyhat said:
If I must
I did catch that and edited my previous post.
Farview
Well-known member
If you want to keep up. (kind of like knowing theory)mshilarious said:
E
EDAN
New member
Anyway, the songwriters are not the worker bees. A studio musician at very best might make a good living although this is pretty rare. A songwriter is waaaayyyyy up on the food chain and "can" and do become filthy rich, even multi millionairs. A studio musicain can never become truly rich doing thier job, there is a cut-off point, there is none with songwriters. Diane Warren makes over 20 million a year and her catalog is estimated to be worth a half a billion dollars!
Farview
Well-known member
[sarcasm]Yup, and Diane is really big on breaking the rules. She always writes the most innovative songs. She takes more musical chances than anyone I can think of.[/sarcasm]EDAN said:
E
EDAN
New member
The public likes things simple, she's on to something. Just because you stay with something that works, like within the frame work of pop writing, verse verse, chorus or whatever doesn't mean they are rules. The songs that go outside that frame work simply don't have mass appeal and are usually called fusion 
Farview
Well-known member
So what you are saying is that you don't like the word 'rules'.EDAN said:The public likes things simple, she's on to something. Just because you stay with something that works, like within the frame work of pop writing, verse verse, chorus or whatever doesn't mean they are rules. The songs that go outside that frame work simply don't have mass appeal and are usually called fusion
You just explained that going outside the 'framework' (the rules of pop song writing) will not have mass appeal. You are proving my point again. Thank you.
Farview
Well-known member
Saying "Learning music theory will ruin your songwriting" is like saying "Learning to spell will affect the way you speak in a negative way". That's just stupidity.
E
EDAN
New member
Sillyhat said:
Take your silly hat off and use your head. Learning music theory in a formal way is not going to help you be a better songwriter, not even a little bit. That's not at all how great songs are written, you just don't get it. Many songwriters don't even use an instrument to write. The ideas, where it comes from, the melody, the feel, etc., comes from a place deep down, a place that can't be explained and theory has never visited.
Farview
Well-known member
I never said it would. You're not paying attention again.EDAN said:
Most of your posts come off as if you are saying that having knowledge will somehow subvert your creativity. That just stupid.
You also seem to think that being a songwriter is some how more noble than being a musician. It isn't.
Last edited:
eraos
Local Spiderman
EDAN said:
Until you've taken a course in theory, I don't think you can say what it will or will not do.
X
XLR
______
Thank you for remembering that one. Might be a losing battle though because it's presented incorrectly on some often-quoted and respected sites that talk about ac guitar mic'ing.Sillyhat said:
Tim
E
EDAN
New member
eraos said:
I believe otherwise, the two are apples and oranges.
mshilarious
Banned
EDAN said:
That is simply false. Take vocal harmony for example. Exploring music theory may lead one to styles of harmony not previously imagined. Creative use of vocal harmony can really set a track apart.
But go on, keep using the same ol' tired third harmonies. You won't even realize you are doing it.
Let's revisit keys. Nobody answered my question of why there is more than one key. Well of course they are THERE, there are twelve notes after all, but why use more than one key? Aren't they pretty much all the same?
Of course they are not, and there are several different reasons why, an understanding of which *might* lead one to select a key based upon the mood of the song.
True, that could be learned by trial and error, but can you honestly same you try all twelve keys each time you write a song to see which one fits best?
You also seem to believe theory is only concerned with harmony. That's a big chunk of it, but hardly all. There are theories of rhythm and melody too. There are thoeries of counterpoint and accompaniment. There are theories of orchestration and arrangement.
I have only scratched the surface with my knowledge of theory, but each tidbit I learned makes my songs better.
No, I don't write fusion, and I don't like it either.
E
EDAN
New member
Sillyhat said:
No, knowlegde is great, but theory is not going to help in the creative process as far as songwriting goes, no one will ever convince me of that. Now, it may or may not help you be a better musician, but songwriting, no.
Sillyhat said:
Well, I'm not sure what you really mean by that. There is nothing wrong with being a studio musician, but as far as the record industry goes, songwriters are certianly thought of as higher up in the ranks. There are coutless musicians they can get to lay down tracks, but good or great or hit songs are much harder to come by and good great songs along with the artist is what sells albums, not the hired hands who laid the tracks down. I will certianly say that a good musician with taste and talent can sometimes add something to a recording that can help make it shine, but lets face it, without the song and songwriter there is nothing to make shine, there are no studio musicians there are no singers (who don't write), there are no producers nor record labels. It all starts with the song and the songwriter.
E
EDAN
New member
mshilarious said:
Who are you talking about? I haven't even said a word about harmony, although that is part of the arraigning, not the writing, that's the icing on the cake and when I come up with a harmony I don't give a rats ass what the notes are, I try different parts out and use what sounds the best to me. Action is how I get things done not by theory shmeory. I posted a song I recorded out here and to be frank it's of some of the highest quality out here, in fact I've really heard no better but a lot worse. I'm not saying there isn't any better and I'm not saying those that are worse are bad, I'm just pointing out this musician, songwriter, producer and engineer knows nothing about theory and VERY little about technical end of recording but can produce very high quality recordings from home, better than almost anything I've heard from any of the in-the-know big mouths with all the answers and $20,000 worth of gear, oh and their theory diatribe.
X
XLR
______
There's more than one key?
...must be an invention of singers who just can't hack singing in the key I play in.
Seriously, I think knowing theory... form analysis, harmony, counterpoint, arranging, etc is very valuable. But hell, I have a conservatory degree so of course I'd say that. But one puts all the intellectualization out of mind when in the heat of the moment in a performance. Maybe that's part of the challenge - to SOMETIMES be analytical and SOMETIMES be purely passionate depending on what the situation inspires.
Tim
Dogman
Unkle Ticklefingers
Timothy Lawler said:
mshilarious
Banned
Timothy Lawler said:
That gets back to there not really being any rules.
Hey Tim, you remember Rumble #1? Shades of that thread, revisited.
EDAN, I'm sorry I didn't get to hear your song, but if you get a chance, check out Lawler's playing on Rumble #1:
The thread:
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=154757&page=2
Tim's entry:
Creamyapples1
www.murphycabs.com
EDAN said:
I'm pretty sure someone said this earlier, but if I were you, and I didn't know theory, I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what it will and will not do.
Example: I own a calculator, I know enough about said calculator to make it function for what I need it to do, and it does it well, no complaints here. I'm not only an adding mother fucker, I'm a multiplying, dividing, subtracting and square rooting machine. However, I would never dream to tell a Mathmatician that learning Trig, Calculus, Geometry, etc will NOT help me operate my calculator any better than I already can.
/emo runs
