Myths

[EDAN]

Sorry I've played in cover bands, and it's a pain in the ass rewriting the chart for the one member who can't transpose. I would have fired such people if I had the authority.

You also continually assume that composers cannot read music or even simple chord charts, but you neglect that until about 1950 or so, the only way for a composer to make money was to sell sheet music.

So modern ignorant composers are successful in spite of their laziness, not because of it.

I've been in cover bands most of my life and I have NEVER EVER been asked to read music to learn a song. I've always learned them by ear or perhaps a half dozen times in twenty years by tabliture. Ok, you are now goingto say, that's theory! I know theory! BS.

Eddie Van Halen:

"The only thing reading music if good for is playing something that someone else already wrote, fuck that, I write my own music!"

It should be noted that Van Halen was one of the most popular cover bands before they started performing thier own songs. Eddie learned the covers by ear, like many if not most cover bands do.

 

[Creamyapples1]

That's cool that you can speak for the thousands of musicians in cover bands and atest to the way they learned the songs.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I've been in cover bands most of my life.

And you have never been told by a bandleader, "OK, for this one starts out in G, moves to D and back to C, with the bridge in E"? I don't believe that.

G.

 

[eraos]

Eddie learned the covers by ear, like many if not most cover bands do.

I'm in no way trying to insult anyone here, but every song I've heard covered (by a local cover band) has been a top 40 or whatever, which don't contain the most complex songwriting. So they're not impossible to learn by ear.

In the few bands that I have played with, whenever we wanted to cover a somewhat more complex song, half the band would say "that's too hard, let's do something easier."

 

[mshilarious]

Yeah, or I suppose you could find them changing pop music forever, writing songs like "Yesterday," "Elenor Rigby,"

From wikipedia:

Martin attended the Guildhall School of Music in the years after World War II, paying his way with a veteran's grant (he had served during the war in the Royal Air Force). Following his graduation, he first worked for the BBC's classical music department

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He first auditioned the Beatles in 1962, after they had been turned down by Decca Records and most of the major British labels. Although his initial reaction was that "they were pretty awful", Martin signed them to a recording contract. This marked the beginning of a long relationship, in which Martin's musical expertise helped fill the gap between the Beatles's raw talent and the sound they wanted to achieve. Most of the orchestral arrangements and instrumentation on Beatles records were made by Martin, in collaboration with the band. (A good example of this was on "Penny Lane", where Martin worked with McCartney on a piccolo trumpet solo: McCartney hummed the melody, and Martin wrote it down as sheet music.)

Martin's distinctive work on Beatles recordings appears in "Eleanor Rigby", for which he scored and conducted a strings-only accompaniment, "Strawberry Fields Forever", where he turned two very different takes into a single master through careful use of vari-speed and editing, "I Am the Walrus", a quirky and original arrangement (for brass, violins, cellos and choir) effectively complementing the surreal imagery of the song's lyrics, playing a speeded-up Baroque piano solo on "In My Life", and the orchestral 'windup' appearing in "A Day In The Life".

Now it's true, for example, that the guy from the London symphony who played on "Penny Lane" probably could have played the melody from Paul singing it to him--after all, he was a professionally trained musician, and Brian Wilson employed the same technique with the French horn player on "God Only Knows".

But again we can see the best music comes from the interaction of talent and musicianship. One need not be subservient to the other.

 

[Farview]

Now, when we talk about learning theory, to me it's coming across as sitting in a classroom, reading books etc. That has NOTHING to do with the Madonna's of the world.

No, but it does have something to do with the people who write and arrange her songs for her.

 

[mshilarious]

And you have never been told by a bandleader, "OK, for this one starts out in G, moves to D and back to C, with the bridge in E"? I don't believe that.

G.

I kinda believe it. 97.2% of the usual cover band suspects are in the few keys that are really easy to play on guitar--C, G, D, A, and their relative minors (OK, maybe not Bm or F#m too often. Barre chords are hard, and you'd need theory to figure out alternate voicings--or a chord book, but hey, that's theory too! ). Sometimes E, but more rarely C#m.

Few hack cover bands transpose anything--if its out of their singer's range, they just drop the song, or the let the singer suffer. There are probably thousands (millions?) of cover bands that have never performed a tune in a flat key.

Why are there twelve keys anyway? If you have soul, you should really only need one key

OK then, from now on, all songs must be in G or Em, except no one is allowed to know that, because that would be learning theory, and no one has to follow that, because it would be a rule

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I kinda believe it. 97.2% of the usual cover band suspects are in the few keys that are really easy to play on guitar--C, G, D, A, and their relative minors (OK, maybe not Bm or F#m too often. Barre chords are hard, and you'd need theory to figure out alternate voicings--or a chord book, but hey, that's theory too! ). Sometimes E, but more rarely C#m.

Few hack cover bands transpose anything--if its out of their singer's range, they just drop the song, or the let the singer suffer. There are probably thousands (millions?) of cover bands that have never performed a tune in a flat key.

Why are there twelve keys anyway? If you have soul, you should really only need one key

OK then, from now on, all songs must be in G or Em, except no one is allowed to know that, because that would be learning theory, and no one has to follow that, because it would be a rule

Hahaha, way to go msh.

Yeah, the key (pun intended) word there is "hack". I was just about to post, before I read yours, the very question you brought up: what happens when you're at practice and the vocalist has a hard time with the key, so the leader says, "OK, let's try it in E instead?" If the band is a bunch of Xerox machines and not a bunch of musicians, they stare at each other.

Many cover bands are little more than underqualified tribute bands. The lead singer even goes out and get the same hiar style and clothes of the guy he's covering. Good cover bands cover the songs, but put their own signature on them, and know how to structure their sets with songs from different bands and genres to work the crowd. And, to a person, they will know their chords and progressions and transpositions. It's the musicians in those bands that will advance in their music careers, not the ones who sit in their bedrooms playing the same songs from their same idol in the same key and with the same pick and finger noises as what's playing on their stereo and learn or at least explore nothing about music beyond that.

G.

 

[c7sus]

You can really tell who plays keyboards around here just looking at this thread.

 

[EDAN]

And that is total bs, again asserting that those who have the skills you lack are not creative, and are just "worker bees".

I would bet that working in a small cover band in no way competes with what true studio musicians can make. And they can be (not necessarily are, because once again you are confusing skill with creativity and talent) more creative than you are.

but whatever lets you sleep at night

In Nashville there are a few top notch first-call session players making a "good" living, it's a small circle. Most of the rest of second-call master session studio cats do demo work in between making far less money to help pay the bills. The vast majority of studio musicans are part-timers (and not by choice) who don't make enough to live off or at least live good off. They are the worker bees of the business, that's not a put down, it's just reality. The thing you don't seem to realize is becoming a first-call session player who makes a real good living is about as hard as making it big as an artist.

As far as making money in a GOOD cover band, you can make more than your average studio musician.

 

[mshilarious]

You can really tell who plays keyboards around here just looking at this thread.

I'm a bassist who can't play keyboards to save his life, reads bass clef slowly, treble a little better (a couple years of self-study classical guitar helped there), and has a high school level understanding of music theory--because I took music theory in high school

I did get an "A" in university-level music . . .













. . . appreciation

 

[EDAN]

No, but it does have something to do with the people who write and arrange her songs for her.

The worker bees, yes.

 

[Farview]

The worker bees, yes.

Yes, the people who WRITE the songs. The people who arrainge them. You are correct, the people who do the work. Without the people who do the work, Madonna would be whistling to herself in Detroit. You have made my point. Thank you.

 

[EDAN]

I'm in no way trying to insult anyone here, but every song I've heard covered (by a local cover band) has been a top 40 or whatever, which don't contain the most complex songwriting. So they're not impossible to learn by ear.

In the few bands that I have played with, whenever we wanted to cover a somewhat more complex song, half the band would say "that's too hard, let's do something easier."

A voice of reason. You hit the nail on the head, cover bands play mostly top 40 songs, even the oldies bands play top 40 from that era and 90% of all top 40 is easy enough to figure out by ear, maybe 5% takes a little more time, if so take a look at some tab or screw it and say, close enough! this is rockin roll!

 

[mshilarious]

The worker bees, yes.

Who get the mechanical royalties

 

[Farview]

BTW Another myth:

The 3 to 1 rule applies to using multiple mics on one source.

I saw this in another thread, thought I would post it here.

 

[EDAN]

Yes, the people who WRITE the songs. The people who arrainge them. You are correct, the people who do the work. Without the people who do the work, Madonna would be whistling to herself in Detroit. You have made my point. Thank you.

No no no, the studio musicians are hired hands, they simply are a work for hire and not anything like a songwriter. The writers get rich off royalties, VERY RICH. I'm a songwriter, I know many songwriters and a few hit song writers from Nashville and this theory stuff has even less to do with songwriting then it does with musicianship!

 

[mshilarious]

No no no, the studio musicians are hired hands, they simply are a work for hire and not anything like a songwriter. The writers get rich off royalties, VERY RICH. I'm a songwriter, I know many songwriters and a few hit song writers from Nashville and this theory stuff has even less to do with songwriting then it does with musicianship!

Nashville numbers are music theory, ya know

Oh yeah, and what was the chord progression to the last song you wrote?

 

[EDAN]

No no no, the studio musicians are hired hands, they simply are a work for hire and not anything like a songwriter. The writers get rich off royalties, VERY RICH. I'm a songwriter, I know many songwriters and a few hit song writers from Nashville and this theory stuff has even less to do with songwriting then it does with musicianship!


Ok, I actually read your post wrong. The musicians don't get any royalties, you don't get royalties for arraingments.

 

[Farview]

No no no, the studio musicians are hired hands, they simply are a work for hire and not anything like a songwriter. The writers get rich off royalties, VERY RICH. I'm a songwriter, I know many songwriters and a few hit song writers from Nashville and this theory stuff has even less to do with songwriting then it does with musicianship!

If you look at what you quoted, I said the people who write and arrange. You've got to pay attention.