My recorded drums What am I doing wrong??

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rimshot86

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Ok first again im going to tell you guys what I have, 1 mic on my snare,1 mic on my small tom,1 mic on my mid tom, 1 mic in my base drum,2 overhead mics,all mics are going to a roland vs-2400 where I changed the eq and did some dynamics,and I might add, I have no moniters im doing everything through headphones.

Heres a link rimshot860.tripod.com hit the file called Recorded Drums,and answer this.
What am I doing wrong?In my opinion everything sounds very dry and has a little to much low end stuff but I dont have near the experience that most of you guys have so please help me!!!!!!!
 
everything is way too compressed. Take the snare mic WAY down and bring up the overheads in the mix. cut out some of the mids on the snare track. Use better mics!
 
undo that, dont do ANYTHING to the snare track, accept take it WAY down in the mix, and cut some mids. take the overheads WAY up int he mix. Almost everythign should be fromt he overheads. All the other mics shoudl only be for re-enforcment.
 
How much compression?

Generally, I only compress overheads at 2:1 ratio or less.

Your best bet is to start out getting a good drumsound through the overheads.
Then add in the kick drum.
Then the snare.
Then the toms.

Also, if you only have two tom mic's, I'd use one between the two mounted toms, and one for floors if you feel you need to mic the toms.


You could also use these mic's out in the room to add more ambience rather than putting them on the toms.


Tim
 
thanks for helping out a noob i will have a new clip soon
 
I agree with Tim. Most of the sound will come from the overheads. The overheads and/or room mics are what actually make the set sound like a drum set in the recordings. If you take out the overheads it's incredible just how bad it sounds. Dial in each drum until it sounds good.

Also keep in mind phase. If you've got one mic pointing up, and the rest are pointing down, reverse the phase on that mic. It makes a HUGE difference.

And for compression, avoid the "pumping" sound. You want to take down the peaks, but don't do it so severe that you hear the sound "pumping".
 
what do you mean pumping?Also my rooM is almost all windows will that effect overheads?
 
rimshot86 said:
what do you mean pumping?Also my rooM is almost all windows will that effect overheads?


On cheap compressors, or compressors not set correctly, you'll get this pumping sound..almost like breathing.

The Windows will make it a bit brighter sounding. Generally for overheads, I've found that the room sound is not always a major factor as long as the mics aren't like 20' up in the air. If you keep the mics within 5 feet or so of the snare, you should be fine.

The key is, make sure the kit is tuned to the best of your ability.



Tim
 
yeah, you need an entirely new approach to this:

The only thing that sounded decent was the kick drum.

I'll go down the list of problems and then a list on how to track and mix this the right way:


-Snare: way too much crack, very uncomfortable to listen to. The snare is either a piccolo or it's miced poorly. There's no body which means to lay off the compression (if any) or to use a thicker snare.

-Kick: Actually sounds fine, don't worry about that.


-Toms: they are non exsistent and they are not tuned optimally. They sound too roomy which means the OH and/or surrounding mics are picking up more of the toms than the actual tom mics.

-Overheads: Probably need to get them a little closer. Too far away for my tastes.


Now how to approach this:


-First, tune the drums correctly. Remember that your bottom heads are actually responsible for the shape of the tom. Not to say the top isn't important, but the relationship between the two need to be immaculate. If the heads are worn out and dented, you need to get new ones. I always advise Remo emperors for a heavier sound and quick decay or Ambassdors for a fuller "doooon" sound. So choose your pick.

On the bottoms, ambassadors work well.

- Micing:

Overheads:

2 condensors. If you're using the small diaphram condensors, then expect a thinner more focused sound....large diaphram cover a broader range, so they'll give you a fuller pick up. Place them at equal heights; one over your main crash cymbal and another over your ride. You do this because these are usually seperated well at either end of the drum set, and they more of a priority rythm factor.

Depending on the mic and preamp, you can usually place them anywhere from 3-8 inches above the source. Usually you'd use the 3 to 1 rule to prevent phasing issues. That means: "The miking distance should be less than 1/3 the distance between mics. For example, if two mics are 12 inches apart, they should be less than four inches from their sound sources to prevent phase cancellations."


Snare: Place a dynamic mic at the edge and point towards the center of the head; I'd say about 2 inches above the head. Point it towards the edge of the head if you want more resonance than crack. I'd avoid "clip ons" cause I'm particularity choosy about drum vibration, although it's not much.


Toms: Do the same as the snare but point it towards the center of the head.

Kick: You can still do what you where doing.

Extra: If you had an extra condenser or dynamic, I'd put it on the hi hat. Aim it towards the side that you play for more thickness or aim it towards the edge for less thickness and a little more sizzle. Also about 2-4 inches away from the source.

Tracking:

-Pull up all your faders at zero or a little under. Usually the board manual should tell you what "Unity or Unity zero" is. Thats going to be the optimal position to set the faders based on the cleanest sound the board circurity can provide.

Once you do that, get a good balance by using your gain dials, not your faders. Generally the kick and the snare come out a little more than everything else. Cymbals follow in close second. Toms in close third. The hi hat close forth.

-Avoid compression if you can, but usually the rule of thumb is about a 4:1 ratio on the drums. I prefer 2:1 going in.


-Avoid EQ unless you absolutly need it. If it was a tremedous console, then EQ is fine, but cheap EQs really do horrible things for the natural sound of an instrument (unless you like that "cool" effect).

Mixing:

This one is more of a freebie and personal taste thing. But I'd say as a starting point:

-Kick and snare up the middle
-Hi hat either slightly left or right (depending on perspective)
-Toms a little less then half way left and right. Probably like a 2 and 10 position.
-Overheads spread out a little more than half way but not fully left and right.

And REMEMBER: The mic relationships! If you decide to have your Overheads a certain way, then the toms and hi hat should be on the correct side!

Reverbs: I leave up to you cause then I'd have to talk about aux sends and all that jazz.


Hope that helps!
 
Hows come I ain't seein' no goldurn link to the clips?!!

What are you guys listening to? :confused: :confused:
 
I think you need to mic the snare closer, place the mic three fingers from the head. Move your OH's closer. Try moving the tom mics pointing to the center of the toms.

TS
 
my EQ isnt a cheap one do research on the roland vs 2400 for more info
 
rimshot86 said:
my EQ isnt a cheap one do research on the roland vs 2400 for more info


its not a very good eq. Most guys that want real control over the eq either use outboard stuff or use a computer. You can only do soo much with those recorders.
 
it is a computer has screen and mouse pretty much a computer.the problem is I dont know how EQ works
 
Don't know how EQ works?? At all?

The slider all the way to the left is bass frequencies. The slider all the way to the right is high frequencies. The sliders in between are the frequencies between the high and low. The more sliders, the better the EQ program.

The graphic EQ program in Sonar is so far the best I've used. You have complete control over each band. You can adjust the bandwidth and the center frequency of each band.

Who says avoid EQ? Where are you getting this info? Why do you say this? That doesn't make any sense to me. I record drums all the time, and I always have to adjust and tweak the EQ. Just a fact of life.
 
rimshot86 said:
it is a computer has screen and mouse pretty much a computer.the problem is I dont know how EQ works

sure, its a "computer", but you cannot choose your interface, software, plugins,...

With computers, you can download eq plugins, and get EXACT control over the sound. The eq in a roland recorder wont be on par with the eq in Nuendo, or Sonar or Logic.
 
I can get new plugins for it but Ineed to get good with the 4band EQ it came with first.
 
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