My mix sucks at low volumes!

L

Laimon

New member
Well, actually it kind of sucks also at higher volumes :P
Ok, I'm by no means a pro, but I try to at least record my stuff in a way that wouldn't sound totally amateurish. At a decent volume it sounds fairly ok, but when I listen to it at lower volumes suddenly the contrast with professional products becomes evident: while the latter remains (often) very clear, intelligible and "alive", mine sounds dull and muffled...
So, how do you deal with this? Should I perhaps adopt more cutting eq for instruments? Should I start mixing at lower volume, so to drive the mixing towards being understandable also at low levels? Also, how do you deal with Fletcher-Munson? (that is, your bass and highs will always be either too low or too prominent, depending on the volume)
Thanks for the help guys!
 
Dood... You are over/or under thinking the whole process.

Every step of the way in regards to compression or eq of individual tracks leads to the final mix. Then the next level to bring up the volume or whatever..

To be honest, I track similar heavy rock bands regularly, and have templates setup that even have limiter on the master bus. Not because I am trying to master the recording myself, but because I wish to hear what I hear myself as the end result. This is not something I would recommend for someone who does not have experience in all stages of tracking. There is much to be aware of before reaching the master bus.

Aw shit, I should just shut up now.

I will bet you that the room you are recording in is your biggest issue, and also likely the best investment you could make at this point is to help in the regards to treating of your room.

Your statement of tracks being 'dull and muffled' is not a eq or effects thing. That should be addressed before you even hit record. Even before the mic-or chose another mic.

Seriously, the room and the source tone are the first order of things that you need to get working. Anything after that is just manipulation of what you have recorded.

Oh, and the need for a worthy means of listening to what you have recorded. Decent or at least time learned pair of speakers you know how sound.

By no means am I trying to be offensive, but if terms like 'dull and muffled' are being used, you need to be able to find why that is happening. Start at #1 and move forward from there.

Trust me, you need good playing-good instrument tone/technique-a room that is complimentary to the source material (usually not ideal in small rooms without acoustic treatment)...

Then you need to have ability to hear back the tracks you recorded with something that gives you an honest representation of what you recorded in the first place. This involves going back to the first point; treating the room and using worthy monitoring.

It all works together and there really are not any shortcuts to get there. Not in my experience anyway.
 
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Hi Jimmy, thanks for the tips. However, I do this for a personal project, I don't intend to build a home studio or anything, and in fact the room plays no role in the recording: drums and bass are sampled (superior drummer and trilian), and only guitars are really played, but again through an axe fx and then directly recorded, not mic'ed.
 
Laimon said:
Should I start mixing at lower volume,
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Yes, you should test your mix at all levels as you go. I will bring my mix down to a whisper to check the order of what is coming through.

But, when I hear dull and muffled I think: #1. None or poor use of high pass filters, knowing how to HP is crucial in ridding your mix of muffle, and #2. Poor use or too much compression, rather than editing or automating peaks. If your recording all pre-sampled type stuff, you shouldn't need any compression/limiting. #3. Over cooking your production, having too many instruments on the same frequencies.

Even though your recording everything ITB, you still have to monitor in your room. So cheap monitors and a poor space is another concern as Jimmy pointed out.
 
Laimon said:
Hi Jimmy, thanks for the tips. However, I do this for a personal project, I don't intend to build a home studio or anything, and in fact the room plays no role in the recording: drums and bass are sampled (superior drummer and trilian), and only guitars are really played, but again through an axe fx and then directly recorded, not mic'ed.
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But you want it to sound great right?

Well then, I am not so sure I am of any use to you.

Let me know if you find a way to make those sampled things work. I have never been able to myself.

Don't get me wrong...there are things you can do to enhance or improve any recorded sounds. But (and a big but IMO) there is always going to be issues with fake (sampled) instruments. You get what someone else sampled gives you.

I suppose it comes down to what it is you are happy with and what you are trying to achieve.

There is no secret method to make everything sound awesome. Only little steps that get you closer. It starts with each step of the input chain. Hard to make the good stuff happen if you cut out the first three steps and go with emulations of real instruments.


Maybe I have misunderstood you. You want your stuff to sound really good, yet do not want to take the steps to make it happen? If you read what I posted, there was a part about treating your room in order to have a clue as to what you are creating.

Do not take that lightly man. I am not bullshitting you or trying to sell you anything. Just giving you my honest opinion. If you don't like it, ignore and continue on your quest. :)
 
Hey guys, thanks a lot for the input!

Jimmy, I do not take your advise lightly, at all! In fact, it's super appreciated ;-) I surely believe that tracking instruments yourself, in optimal conditions, is just unbeatable, but I don't have a studio, I do this in my apartment, and I can go just so far.
I specified that I use samples and all the rest just to set the context: I don't mean to achieve a professional level as recording/mixing engineer, I am interested in doing that exclusively for my own demos so it would hardly justify the effort. My goal would be learning to make it sound semi-professional, say, so that people that listen to it actually understand what's happening in the record :P
Btw, still to get some context, as monitors I use a pair of Infinity Reference 50, and AudioTechnica ATH M50 as headphones.

PDP, thanks for the tips! The main problem could actually be #3, having too much happening at the same frequency...but how do you solve that? I wonder myself if there exists some VST that could analize frequencies of all tracks and show you the spectrums layered on each other to see where to intervene.
 
Laimon said:
PDP, thanks for the tips! The main problem could actually be #3, having too much happening at the same frequency...but how do you solve that? I wonder myself if there exists some VST that could analize frequencies of all tracks and show you the spectrums layered on each other to see where to intervene.
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Funny you should say that. Cubase 7 has a spectrum analyzer on every channel and its extremely helpful.

Hard panning and drastically cutting frequencies helps. Sometimes I'll eq an instrument knowing that by itself it might sound odd i.e. too thin or thick etc but it will work in the mix. The other solution is to simply arrange your music with less instruments. I tend to add a lot of instruments and parts as I'm making a song to fill up the sound, but then when I get to mastering (and everything gets pumped up) I realize that a good drum and bass part can carry the whole song. So now I spend my time getting that right, rather than multi tracking like crazy.
 
you'll need to have at least some form of acoustic treatment if you want to be able to hear what's going on in the mix, there's just no way around it. Or get a mono avantone mixcube because that's a great monitor for revealing floors in a mix even in a really terrible sounding room it works well
 
First off, half the heavy stuff that is coming out now is made with drum samples and axe effects, so that isnt your problem.

Part of the problem would be the consumer stereo speakers in an untreated room. Those speakers are made to make things sound pretty or exciting, studio monitors are trying to be accurate, which is a different thing all together.

So your speakers are lying to you and your room is probably scewing the response of the speakers. This means you have no real idea of what your mix sounds like.

As for your other possible problem, having too much going on in the same frequency range, that is a beginner mistake. Everyone has an eq curve in their head that they find pleasant sounding. There is a tendancy to adjust the eq of all the instruments in such a way that they have that sound, so when they are mixed together, it turns into a mess.

Not all the instruments have to sound good on their own. They all have a job to do and a place to be in the mix, you have to put them there.
 
hi, There are two reasons why mixing at low level is a good idea. 1. low volume doesn't react to the room you're in as much as higher volume does. This is pretty important if you're working in a less than stellar room.
2. if you can get excitement out of a mix at low volume, it will be even more exciting at higher volume - sadly, not the other way around.

As far as your mixes sounding dull.. someone brought up hi pass filtering, and that's a good start. I would also have a look at a build up at around 300hz - give or take - EVERYTHING has a certain amount of low mid information. You can go through your tracks and carefully remove any frequencies that are obscuring your mix. don't over do it or your mix will sound thin.
For an experiment, put an EQ on your master buss, and pull down 300hz by 2 or 3 db - if your mix sounds clearer, you need to go in and find the individual tracks that need love.
good luck with your recording, dd
 
davedarling said:
hi, There are two reasons why mixing at low level is a good idea. 1. low volume doesn't react to the room you're in as much as higher volume does. This is pretty important if you're working in a less than stellar room.
2. if you can get excitement out of a mix at low volume, it will be even more exciting at higher volume - sadly, not the other way around.

As far as your mixes sounding dull.. someone brought up hi pass filtering, and that's a good start. I would also have a look at a build up at around 300hz - give or take - EVERYTHING has a certain amount of low mid information. You can go through your tracks and carefully remove any frequencies that are obscuring your mix. don't over do it or your mix will sound thin.
For an experiment, put an EQ on your master buss, and pull down 300hz by 2 or 3 db - if your mix sounds clearer, you need to go in and find the individual tracks that need love.
good luck with your recording, dd
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I would agree with that. It all comes from having monitors (the speaker kind) in a treated room that does not screw with you. Then over time you start to realize what works for each instrument.

Keep in mind that most samples or whatever presets are designed to sound as bad ass as they can on their own for 'wow' factor and to sell them. That is not necessarily what is needed in any particular mix. It is the placement of any sound with other sounds in a way that makes them work together well that becomes a good mix.

I can't really even give much detail as to what to do with whatever tracks. It just takes time and experience to be able to tell yourself what is needed.

Man, that sounded lame and arrogant, but it really is the truth.
 
Something that might help you is to go to Youtube and listen to the isolated tracks of songs that you know. You might be surprised at what a bass guitar sounds like on its own, or even guitars isolated might not be what you think they are with the whole mix going. That might give you some ideas and direction.
 
Was it me, or did the OP miss the point about room treatment? It seemed to me that he thought you were talking about the RECORDING room when you were actually talking about treating his MONITORING ENVIRONMENT.

Did you get that, OP?

Cheers :)
 
Hi Mo, nope, I do get the importance of room treatment for monitoring as well, but Jimmy brought up also tracking at the same time, and that's what I was referring to in my reply ;-)
 
I know I'm late but in addition to everything everyone else has said. Turn the mix down as low as you can while still being audible and the bad stuff should jump out at you. The fact that it sounds bad at low volumes is actually a blessing in desguise because now your work is cut out for you you should know exactly what to fix. Acoustics are very important but the fact that you hear the problem in your current acoustic environment says to me that you have atleast somewhat of an ability to tackle the problem to an extent. You may need to tune your ears I don't mean to patronize you so excuse me if this doesn't apply to you but 13 years ago i used to use winamp and i had the eq presets set to make everything sound "better" and in my car I used to have the bass and the treble up. Once I turned all these settings to flat was the biggest improvement I had ever made. Bigger than any gear purchase including acoustic treatment. You always gotta trouble shoot at the ends of the chain and at both ends is ALWAYS a human even in electronic music.
 
Laimon said:
Well, actually it kind of sucks also at higher volumes :P
Ok, I'm by no means a pro, but I try to at least record my stuff in a way that wouldn't sound totally amateurish. At a decent volume it sounds fairly ok, but when I listen to it at lower volumes suddenly the contrast with professional products becomes evident: while the latter remains (often) very clear, intelligible and "alive", mine sounds dull and muffled...
So, how do you deal with this? Should I perhaps adopt more cutting eq for instruments? Should I start mixing at lower volume, so to drive the mixing towards being understandable also at low levels? Also, how do you deal with Fletcher-Munson? (that is, your bass and highs will always be either too low or too prominent, depending on the volume)
Thanks for the help guys!
Click to expand...

If you want excellent mix balance, mix at very quiet levels. Then when you think you have it nailed, turn on a fan or other broadband noise source. If it still has balance and you can hear each element clearly, you are close. Now crank it up and adjust bass elements (kick drum, bass, whatever else is in there) to balance it. It sounds dumb but works great.
 
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