My latest ditty, would dearly appreciate feedback on all aspects.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Phrasemaker
  • Start date Start date
Phrasemaker

Phrasemaker

New member


Hi, I've just finished hanging this together and before I spend a whole load of time sorting various nits I thought I'd ask for a few constructive ideas and potential improvements here. I personally think the vox might need dropping a bit, but I wanted the lyrics to be easily heard so that they can be subjected to scrutiny before I offer an improved overall mix for perusal. Many thanks in advance as I know everyone is busy.

Kind regards

Tim
 
Digging it. Mix sounds good to me. Nice low end and meaty drums.

Love the transition from the chorus(?) "The simple fact that you forgot to call....." right back into the verse. There's a nice contrast in that transition. Nice lead tone on the git. Vocals sound good too.

Can't find anything I don't like about this, sound-wise. Ending's a bit abrupt, but that's not necessarrilly a bad thing. :cool:
 
I don't if it's just today but I hear some Joy Division in this.
You've moved this a,ong quite a bit since my last listen on soundcloud.
I THINK I'd like to hear a little more treble in the bass in some parts and/or a simple bass riff for dynamic variation - again, I think I'm just being very Joy Division fixated today.
It's coming along really well Phrasemaker. The mix is good as Rami mentioned.
The lyrics sound really good; maybe you should post them.
 
Sounds good,

Great job on the sub-bass, gives the recording a very modern sound. (Anything you'd like to share on how you mixed that?)

I think the tune would benefit from some layered vocals on the chorus to emphasize "The writing on the wall".

Otherwise, cool tune you've got.

Great job!
 
Lovely mix. Really clear.

Some personal preference stuff on the actual song:

I'd say the bass line could do with being a tad more interesting. If you want to keep the 4/4 thumping rhythm then maybe some walking notes on changes would help. Doesn't need to be anything mad as it would take away from the solidness of it if you went overboard but it needs something. Listen to design for life by the manic street preachers. I'd say in some ways it reminds me of it and the bass line in that is very steady but the extra notes help it add groove. It doesn't even need to go that far, just some variation on note changes.

I don't really like the rhythm guitar sound (at 38 secs and repeated later) as to me it almost sounds a bit like it's low bitrate compared to everything else. I know that's not the case but that's how I'd describe the sound.

Otherwise I think it's sounding really good. Love the low end sounds and the lead guitar sounds sweeeet :).
 
I liked the vocal sound. And I liked the bass sound. Synths were good too.

I thought the guitar lacked a little bite. It was kind of muffled.

Drums were a little subdued. Lacked a little energy and presence.

I thought the performances could use a little more energy. Just a little too pedestrian.
 
Thanks for the feedback it's very much appreciated.

Rami, Thank you for listening and sharing your thoughts, I've a few tweaks to make so hopefully it will improver further, though sometimes there's a step back before finding that forward movement, all the best.

Ray, Thanks for your input, I'll take it into consideration over the next day or two and re post. Always happy to be in the same sentence as Joy Division, it would have been up here before now but having sparse lyrics makes individual word choices a little more time consuming and I didn't want to get too enthusiastic about tweaking the instruments until I got it all together. I will put the lyrics up.

PDP, the bass in respect of the mix was a slightly unexpected bonus, I scooped out a lot of the lower mids and lows from some of the instruments including the bass then applied a boost to re establish it across the whole mix using a wide band which extended from the top of the scooped area down to below what can be heard. I'm adding another layer of vocals on the choruses which will be present when I post the next version. Thanks.

Turkeyoverlord, thanks for your thoughts, I'll see what I can come up with in respect of the bass and repost another version in the coming days. The Guitar sound you mentioned might come across better with some adjustment of the mix. It sounds completely different without the chorus synth track present, a shift in where one or other sits in the stereo field might address some of what you describe, if not I'll have ponder some more. There are two guitar sounds present at each chorus, one clean and one very overdrive so I also have EQ and placement options with each of those and the synth.

Triple M, thanks for your time and offering your thoughts, I have been pondering them and can see the relevance of your points. The things you mention are the tougher, more subtle things to address. I'll take them into consideration along with everyone else's advice and hopefully I'll make some improvement in those areas.
On reflection I can hear a little tiredness in some the vocals in the latter verses, I was pretty much done in by time I recorded them and I think perhaps a little more attack in some of the phrasing might help the overall impression.

Lyrics:

Should I walk alone
Or is it all the way
To anywhere you'd like to go

I don't seem to understand
The writing on the wall
Or is it just a simple fact
That you forgot to call

And if I talk some more
Would your sweet refrain
Be a chain across your door

Don't ask me where I've been
That don't mean anything
Cos/Cause Any time I have is yours

I don't seem to understand
The writing on the wall
Or is it just a simple fact
That you forgot to call

Too many words wear thin
They keep me wondering
How can I know what's said or done

For everything you say
To hold my thoughts in place
I notice you came back for more

I don't seem to understand
The writing on the wall
Or is it just a simple fact
That you forgot to call

So, should I walk alone
Or is it all the way
To anywhere I'd like to go

Don't ask me where that is
In case you're wondering
I think the choice is always yours
 
Nice recording, the drums especially, the snare has snap, crackle, and pop. :) I agree that the bass part could use a little more something in terms of movement, just so we know it's a human playing it. a little riff or two in the holes, use it like a drum fill... There are a few mildly pitchy spots vocally, most notably the beginning of the third verse. The crunchy guitar has an unusual, retro kind of sound, I want to say I'd try something else, but I can't articulate exactly what I'd try, so it may not be a problem. I favor a slightly moister vocal as well, but that's a taste thing. Overall it's a fine piece, cleanly executed and recorded. Enjoyable!
 
hey i really liked this. reminded me of some of frank black's early stuff from his first album. great songwriting, i wish i could write songs like that instead i do covers mostly.

heres my advice. the sampled drums could use more randomness in time and velocity to give it more human feel. that will make a big difference. and i also agree with whoever said that the bass guitar could use more variation but its still sounding great anyway so maybe just leave it. if it was my track i would add some more reverb and delay to the vocals to get it more spacious and crazy but thats just my style its fine how it is.
 
Untrasound and Llarion thank you for taking time to listen and respond. I'm still working on this taking into account the useful advice I received here, and trying to implement as far as my playing/singing/recording skills enable me. Re: the pitch observation, yep I agree, the vocals so far are what I recorded while writing the lyrics and testing to see which words and their diction and sound worked in the track whilst saying what I want. I will re do them and hopefully improve on what I have.
Thank you both.

Re: the above and previous advice/observations.

I've had a couple of hours trying some bass for this, some of which sounded ok, some of which didn't work with what already exists in respect of keeping the feel of the track. I have another mix here with a new bass track, I'm not a bassist so do what I can with the instrument. Some of the guitar sounds have a little more grunt, the lead remains unchanged other than how it sits with the other tweaks, the drums hopefully have a touch more in general, and I used a slightly different approach to mixing it this time.... As is the case with this process there will be gains and losses, I now need to work out where the gains are, and what to try something else with or revert. The vox needs to come up a bit I feel in this mix, I also added another vox layer to each chorus to see how that works. Once again any advice gratefully received.

Many thanks, Tim

 
Last edited:
Phrasemaker said:
Untrasound and Llarion thank you for taking time to listen and respond. I'm still working on this taking into account the useful advice I received here, and trying to implement as far as my playing/singing/recording skills enable me. Re: the pitch observation, yep I agree, the vocals so far are what I recorded while writing the lyrics and testing to see which words and their diction and sound worked in the track whilst saying what I want. I will re do them and hopefully improve on what I have.
Thank you both.

Re: the above and previous advice/observations.

I've had a couple of hours trying some bass for this, some of which sounded ok, some of which didn't work with what already exists in respect of keeping the feel of the track. I have another mix here with a new bass track, I'm not a bassist so do what I can with the instrument. Some of the guitar sounds have a little more grunt, the lead remains unchanged other than how it sits with the other tweaks, the drums hopefully have a touch more in general, and I used a slightly different approach to mixing it this time.... As is the case with this process there will be gains and losses, I now need to work out where the gains are, and what to try something else with or revert. The vox needs to come up a bit I feel in this mix, I also added another vox layer to each chorus to see how that works. Once again any advice gratefully received.

Many thanks, Tim
Click to expand...
Yeah, this is better, just that little variation in the bass line made a solid difference. Nice work, thanks for being open to the feedback!
 
Always open to feedback Llarion, Can't personally see a lot of value in posting tracks for the click factor as there are very often people here with more experience than I, from whom it is possible to get a few ideas to try in a genuine effort to improve a mix.

I've done another bass take using a different instrument, I feel that I made the high mids a bit garish in the last mix so tamed them a little in this one. Maybe a tad bottom heavy now so might have to trim the bass back a bit. I played the same bass notes as the second mix but thought I explored the rhythm a little better, and it has a more punchy tonality I think. Once again open to suggestions. Also the vocal is slightly less dry.

Thanks


 
I'm glad the synth in the verses is the same - that sound works really well - different from the chorus, a little mellow & comforting before the change.
This is coming along very well indeed.
 
Phrasemaker said:
Always open to feedback Llarion, Can't personally see a lot of value in posting tracks for the click factor as there are very often people here with more experience than I, from whom it is possible to get a few ideas to try in a genuine effort to improve a mix.

I've done another bass take using a different instrument, I feel that I made the high mids a bit garish in the last mix so tamed them a little in this one. Maybe a tad bottom heavy now so might have to trim the bass back a bit. I played the same bass notes as the second mix but thought I explored the rhythm a little better, and it has a more punchy tonality I think. Once again open to suggestions. Also the vocal is slightly less dry.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Yep, you're hearing it right, the bass is a bit "wuffly" now. The last iteration was fine, just needed perhaps a but of 80Hz in the bass EQ, I don't think it needed retracking.
 
Clean.

What is your signal chain on the guitar?

How much time does it take for you to pust something like this together?
 
Cool tune. I like the vocal melody interaction with the chord progression. Good choice of sounds, well mixed. There's a glitch between the chorus and the start of the second verse around .54 you might want to look at. Good job.
 
I've listened to this a few times over the last week, but haven't had chance to comment. Every time I came back to it there was a new version anyway, and each one has been an improvement on the last. You're at the point now where no mix issues stick out - it's a good tune, played/mixed well and I enjoyed the listen(s).

Nice work phrasemaker :)
 
The latest mix is better.
The clean guitar on the downbeat could come up a lot. The tone damn near matches the snare, so I'd exploit that.
Doubled vox are a nice touch too.
This has a kind goth mood to it.
Just in time for Halloween.:)
 
Turkeyoverlord said:
Lovely mix. Really clear.

Some personal preference stuff on the actual song:

I'd say the bass line could do with being a tad more interesting. If you want to keep the 4/4 thumping rhythm then maybe some walking notes on changes would help.
Click to expand...

Yup. The last 8 notes of each figure could be walking notes that lead into the next part.

Also, the vocal: I want the singer to hurt more. :) I think this one should be howled, not sneered bitterly.
 
Hi Folks, I must apologise for my untimely getting back to this thread, work and other distractions, plus a couple of favours has kept me busy. Also I needed some space between me and the track.

Ray, thanks for your thoughts, yes that part of the track will remain it's part of my developing sound, it's possibly slightly more to the fore in the new mix.

Llarion, I appreciate you dropping by again, I think I have the bass somewhere near right now, I played the megga bass version through my home stereo which runs through some pretty large KEF speakers and almost caused structural damage.

Telegram Sam, thank you. The writing is the time consuming part for me as I'm a bit fussy with lyrics and how words sound in a track. If I have the lyrics and know roughly the progression I'm going to use, I can record something like this in a day.
The signal chain for the guitar, Hughes and Kettner 18w tube head FX looped into a Digitech GSP1100 rack effects unit. I then either record using a 2x12 mic'd or DI out from the amp to the mixer.

Bulls Hit, thank you, I think I have removed the glitch, well spotted, I appreciate your taking time to contribute.

robgreen, Thank you for listening and replying, I appreciate every piece of input which either points out flaws or is encouraging, I just hope I haven't wrecked it with the latest version.

dobro, Thank you I'll have a look at walking the bass, I'm not very experienced with bass but I can probably do that with a little focus. I have attacked the vocal a little more this time, plus I've used totally different equipment to do the vocal takes through. I understand what you say about making the vocal hurt more, I'll be working on this until it's as good as I can get it so I'll perhaps progress further with the vox.

Latest version below, thanks.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top