A project called "At Midnight Lakes" - feedback welcomed

M

mflem

New member
Dear all,

I'm a newbie to this forum and wanted to share a project/collection of songs that I've put together. I started seriously recording and songwriting in 2009. I record everything these days through a mic on my iPhone and do all the mixing in Garageband on the iPhone too.. I realise this limits my abilities for mixing and general sound production. However, for various reasons, I haven't owned a modern laptop/computer to really go to town with recording and mixing. There are three tracks from this "project" of eight songs that were put into a Mac and edited on the full version of GarageBand as opposed to the app on the phone (these were "Who Feels Love", "Mano Meile" and "Together (Into the Unknown)". For a long while now, I have wanted to get a collection of songs together I could feel somewhat proud of. As of 2018, this collection of 8 songs is the closest I have gotten given said limitations.

The reason I'm posting here is that I think it's incredibly valuable to receive any feedback from fellow musicians/songwriters/producers/lyricists/guitarists et al. who may want to listen to any number of the eight songs as part of this project and let me know any constructive thoughts on the songwriting/production/vocals/guitar playing/overall coherence of this collection of songs.

-Does the track listing work?
-Does the production vary too much from song to song?
-Are they interesting to listen to?
-Does the style of the individual songs hold together in a way that portrays a coherent body of music?

A little timeline of when the tracks were written/recorded/mixed (feel free to skip over this, this is mainly for my benefit to know there's a written record of this somewhere):

1. Monochrome (written in 2012 and an acoustic version was adapted in 2013. This version recorded & mixed 2018)
2. Hotel By The Sea (written in 2014 and this version recorded & mixed 2018)
3. Who Feels Love (written & recorded in 2012, latest mix 2018)
4. Twenty-Sixteen (written & recorded in 2016, latest mix 2018)
5. Mano Meile (written & recorded 2017, mixed in 2018)
6. At Midnight Lakes (written, recorded & mixed in 2018)
7. Together (written & recorded 2017, mixed in 2018)
8. Roots (written & recorded in 2013, mixed in 2018)

I go through phases of thinking they're ok then thinking they're truly awful. I've wanted to sit on this as much as possible so am about anxious about sharing. There are a lot of issues with the mixes that I am aware of but there comes a point where I want to avoid getting sucked into the nitty gritty endlessly. I really appreciate anyone who does decide to have a listen, it means a lot and looking forward to hopefully hearing some feedback.

Thanks a lot for reading, tracks below.

At Midnight Lakes by mFlem | M Flem | Free Listening on SoundCloud

Matt
 
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I'd say YES - NO - YES - YES

I liked all the songs. Re the songs not done on the MAC.. the vocal frequency is very fatiguing in my phones - hard to take after only
a few minutes. This is less so on the MAC songs, but still there to some degree. Definitely needs to be refined, IMO.

Although your percussion is canned, you've made good use of it. The vocal (aside from the above problem), guitar and bass playing mesh
well with it. It's not a distraction.

Although lacking in dynamics, these are very listenable and interesting tunes.
 
I listened to the first couple. Sounds pretty good for having been recorded on your phone. I would suggest the acoustic guitars can be a little close and dry. Some vocal clipping going on in the second song.

For your next project, you should consider upgrading your setup. You can write, play and sing. Why not invest a bit of time and money in a system that will give you more capabilities and options. You don't need much: An audio interface, a DAW like Reaper, and microphone.
 
Hi Spantini

thanks for listening - that's greatly appreciated and so are your comments! Glad to hear that they are listenable. Are you able to elaborate slightly on the vocal frequency being fatiguing? It's something I can look to avoid or improve going forward if possible...

thanks.. :)
 
Hi Robus,

thanks a lot for listening to the first two tracks! Your feedback is greatly appreciated. You're right about the setup, I've known for ages that I need to get some more equipment to aid with songwriting. Need to ensure I make it happen sooner now rather than later. I'm sadly incredibly naive when it comes to serious equipment, so thanks for the tip in regards to what's best for me to look to invest in. I'll ensure I keep this forum updated whenever that day arrives!

Cheers
M
 
mflem said:
Hi Spantini

thanks for listening - that's greatly appreciated and so are your comments! Glad to hear that they are listenable. Are you able to elaborate slightly on the vocal frequency being fatiguing? It's something I can look to avoid or improve going forward if possible...

thanks.. :)
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Sibilance. Your vocal sounds harsh to me. You could put more distance between you and the mic - perhaps even position it slightly downward.
 
Ah ok - that’s frustrating! Good to know though, thank you. I sing relatively close to the mic on the iPhone so that clarity is increased, otherwise I feel the background noise increases too much or it sounds muffled when I am further away. Something to experiment with in future if I do record anything again purely with the phone. I think it’s about time I make that next leap to proper home studio equipment soon though. Looking forward to sharing such results in the future...it might be a few years away yet but still! :guitar:

Thanks again for taking the time to listen and comment.
M
 
I think you're doing great, and especially with low-budget equipment. Your music has a raw and real vibe, and that is definitely a legitimate style of music. I can hear why sometimes you might think it sucks. I can tell that you are not a practiced and trained vocalist, and maybe you wish you were. But there is plenty of raw and untrained music out there with a large audience. Sometimes people can really identify with that approach. So I say "embrace the suck" so to speak (i'm not trying to say that you suck), and keep working on finding and developing your voice.

My main suggestions are first, that your use of reverb sometimes seems inconsistent. Sometimes you have a dry guitar next to a super washy vocal. It almost sounds like you're trying to hide your singing behind all the reverb. You should use a little less verb on the vox, and a little more on the guitar and drums. Use a bit of verb on the main bus to blend it all together. Same thing with levels. Sometimes the vocals are too buried. Also, I kind of missed hearing bass guitar... or even electronic bass.
 
24Fretz said:
... Your music has a raw and real vibe, and that is definitely a legitimate style of music. I can hear why sometimes you might think it sucks. I can tell that you are not a practiced and trained vocalist, and maybe you wish you were. But there is plenty of raw and untrained music out there with a large audience. Sometimes people can really identify with that approach. So I say "embrace the suck" so to speak (i'm not trying to say that you suck), and keep working on finding and developing your voice.
...
Click to expand...

I would put this in the Americana genre - here's a good example youtube.com/watch?v=o5hrbJfzj-E
 
24Fretz said:
I can tell that you are not a practiced and trained vocalist, and maybe you wish you were.

My main suggestions are first, that your use of reverb sometimes seems inconsistent. Sometimes you have a dry guitar next to a super washy vocal. It almost sounds like you're trying to hide your singing behind all the reverb. You should use a little less verb on the vox, and a little more on the guitar and drums. Use a bit of verb on the main bus to blend it all together. Same thing with levels. Sometimes the vocals are too buried. Also, I kind of missed hearing bass guitar... or even electronic bass.
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Hi 24Fretz

Thanks so much for your comments - really appreciate you taking the time to check out the songs and offer some feedback. I completely agree with you regarding the vocals. You are correct that I have not had lessons with vocals (I'd be fooling myself to think that wasn't evident in my recordings!) and I definitely do wish I had more to work with in this area. For this reason I usually prefer collaborating with other musicians as it can often boost my confidence. When left to my own devices I am very understated and timid with vocals. This is definitely a reason why I do generally prefer to bury the vocals deep in the mix to hide any flaws, when really I should be focusing on practicing and nailing vocal performances. Of course, the reality is that I often don't have the time for this and sometimes settle for standards lower than I'd like, but I do the best I can on the whole. I would agree with you that Monochrome, Hotel by the Sea, Mano Meile & Together have too much reverb (tracks 1,2 5 & 7), in the case of track 7 I think it fits quite nicely though. The rest could perhaps be tinkered with. Something for me to consider if I develop these further or look to remix in future, so thank you. I would say that Who Feels Love, At Midnight Lakes and Roots (tracks 3, 6 & 8) aren't too reverby. Although track 8 was recorded playing guitar and singing at the same time so it's obviously difficult with that one as I do think I put reverb on the overall track.

Lastly, I see what you mean about the bass. Sadly I don't own a bass guitar anymore to record this myself -however I did use bass options available on Garageband on a number of tracks on this project, so it would be slightly concerning if you didn't hear any of it? The only tracks without bass at all are track 6 and track 8! Admittedly the bass is often coming in later in the songs, especially track 3 for example, so if you skimmed through it can be easy to miss.

Anyway, I hope I am not coming across too defensive here as when I read your comments I basically agreed with them all :)

Thanks once again for taking the time to comment! Really appreciate everyone who is taking the time to get back to me. Means a lot.

M
 
mflem said:
Hi 24Fretz

Thanks so much for your comments - really appreciate you taking the time to check out the songs and offer some feedback. I completely agree with you regarding the vocals. You are correct that I have not had lessons with vocals (I'd be fooling myself to think that wasn't evident in my recordings!) and I definitely do wish I had more to work with in this area. For this reason I usually prefer collaborating with other musicians as it can often boost my confidence. When left to my own devices I am very understated and timid with vocals. This is definitely a reason why I do generally prefer to bury the vocals deep in the mix to hide any flaws, when really I should be focusing on practicing and nailing vocal performances. Of course, the reality is that I often don't have the time for this and sometimes settle for standards lower than I'd like, but I do the best I can on the whole. I would agree with you that Monochrome, Hotel by the Sea, Mano Meile & Together have too much reverb (tracks 1,2 5 & 7), in the case of track 7 I think it fits quite nicely though. The rest could perhaps be tinkered with. Something for me to consider if I develop these further or look to remix in future, so thank you. I would say that Who Feels Love, At Midnight Lakes and Roots (tracks 3, 6 & 8) aren't too reverby. Although track 8 was recorded playing guitar and singing at the same time so it's obviously difficult with that one as I do think I put reverb on the overall track.

Lastly, I see what you mean about the bass. Sadly I don't own a bass guitar anymore to record this myself -however I did use bass options available on Garageband on a number of tracks on this project, so it would be slightly concerning if you didn't hear any of it? The only tracks without bass at all are track 6 and track 8! Admittedly the bass is often coming in later in the songs, especially track 3 for example, so if you skimmed through it can be easy to miss.

Anyway, I hope I am not coming across too defensive here as when I read your comments I basically agreed with them all :)

Thanks once again for taking the time to comment! Really appreciate everyone who is taking the time to get back to me. Means a lot.

M
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You don't sound defensive at all. I was hoping I wasn't assuming too much about the vocals, but I feel the same way myself, sometimes. I think you need to overcome self-consciousness as much as possible to become the best you can. So be proud of how far you have come, be honest about your weaknesses, and keep working to get better. It's the only way you can reach your potential as a musician. I think you're doing great, and I encourage you not to hide those vocals.

---------- Update ----------

And I actually was listening to track 8 when I said I missed the bass. Not all the songs were lacking on the bottom.
 
24Fretz said:
You don't sound defensive at all. I was hoping I wasn't assuming too much about the vocals, but I feel the same way myself, sometimes. I think you need to overcome self-consciousness as much as possible to become the best you can. So be proud of how far you have come, be honest about your weaknesses, and keep working to get better. It's the only way you can reach your potential as a musician. I think you're doing great, and I encourage you not to hide those vocals.

---------- Update ----------

And I actually was listening to track 8 when I said I missed the bass. Not all the songs were lacking on the bottom.
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Very helpful re. the vocals, thanks! You’re right of course. I’ve seen that you’ve posted something here recently so I’m going to give it a listen now and will let you know my thoughts in due course..
 
i think this is a case of good songs, so damn the gear...to a point.
The tunage is extremely good and listenable to my ear.
I don't listen loud so the somewhat telephonic vox don't bother me.
"who feels love" is awesome.
2016 sounds real good.
Mano Meile sounds great to me. Is it all acoustic guitar made to sounds electric?
At Midnight Lakes is too funky.

-Does the track listing work? Yes
-Does the production vary too much from song to song? No
-Are they interesting to listen to? Hell yes
-Does the style of the individual songs hold together in a way that portrays a coherent body of music? Yes. You hold them together.
seeing there's a 6 year timeline i want to say the listing grows in songwriting quality but that sounds so cheesy. i will say the groove seems to get better tho. the production seems to be bigger too. ie Together
ok funny - roots ha ha.


there's this little coffee shop i go to on saturday mornings and this playlist would be perfect in there.
 
I listened to Monochrome. I can't answer the questions about production from song to song. But I'll say Monochrome is interesting. In a good way.

The guitar is pretty dry. But the vocal sounds like it's in a sewer drain pipe. Tons of reverb. I would keep things dry.

The guitar on the left is usually not balanced with enough energy on the right. It's recorded pretty well. I'd like a little more low end to it.

The percussion was a little strange. A cymbal just on the left in spots. The snare wasn't real natural sounding.

The tape rewind thing at 1:40 seemed kind of gratuitous and didnt' serve a purpose. Probably fun to put in tho.
 
Manslick said:
i think this is a case of good songs, so damn the gear...to a point.
The tunage is extremely good and listenable to my ear.
I don't listen loud so the somewhat telephonic vox don't bother me.
"who feels love" is awesome.
2016 sounds real good.
Mano Meile sounds great to me. Is it all acoustic guitar made to sounds electric?
At Midnight Lakes is too funky.



there's this little coffee shop i go to on saturday mornings and this playlist would be perfect in there.
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Thank you Manslick - really kind comments. Cannot tell you how much I appreciate you having a listen through, especially to all of them, means a lot. I'm glad you enjoyed them too. You are right that all "electric" guitar sounds will have been recorded on acoustic guitar and then made to sound electric via the editing. The sound on Mano Meile really does sound like a plugged in electric guitar doesnt it! I was quite happy to get it sounding like that.

With A Midnight Lakes being too funky - is this in a bad way? haha. I agree regarding Together - I'm probably happy with the production on that song (minus the background noise on the guitars) more than any other track tbh. Mano Meile is probably up there too in terms of production - although I would change the vocals now if I could, as it does seem I overdo the reverb on occasion (long story as to why I can't change this).

You're right about Roots - I purposefully wanted to end on a very stripped back note! :D

Am glad you can imagine it in a coffee shop playlist !!! thank you :)
 
TripleM said:
I listened to Monochrome. I can't answer the questions about production from song to song. But I'll say Monochrome is interesting. In a good way.

The guitar is pretty dry. But the vocal sounds like it's in a sewer drain pipe. Tons of reverb. I would keep things dry.

The guitar on the left is usually not balanced with enough energy on the right. It's recorded pretty well. I'd like a little more low end to it.

The percussion was a little strange. A cymbal just on the left in spots. The snare wasn't real natural sounding.

The tape rewind thing at 1:40 seemed kind of gratuitous and didnt' serve a purpose. Probably fun to put in tho.
Click to expand...


Hi TripleM,

thanks for listening to Monochrome. I think you're right about the vocal / guitar dynamic being a little too contrasted with the dry sound on the guitar and the reverb on the vox (love the sewer down the drainpipe analogy btw :D). I'm really struggling with that guitar sound at the moment as spantini mentioned before (albeit in regards to the vox) - I find there is a fatiguing aspect to the guitar after a prolonged listen more than the vocals. I can't tell if it's too much mid-range or not. The analyzer on my phone suggests the low-end is quite loud in the guitar track already and the mid is quite lacking (seems odd to me), so I'll have to revisit the guitar sound and if I can balance that out better maybe this will help the overall sound of the track including the way the vocals mesh with it. Of course, I can take reverb off the vox too as an option.

In regards to too much going on in the left side of things, that's helpful and will be a good idea I double check the panning on this one to make things sound more even.

Percussion was one of the drum sound settings from the Garageband app on the iphone. I can see what you mean here but hopefully it isn't too strange to the point of spoiling the track.

Funny for you to mention the effect at 1:40 - to give you a short version of why this is there - the original demo of this track from 2013 had a different sound effect with melody at this part of the song (would have been done on the far more limited iOS Garageband circa 2013) and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't replicate this sound effect! So I ended up settling on what is in the song. I think it needs something extra at that part and the effect in the end ties quite nicely with the samples I did at the end trying to (loosely) replicate sounds of the sea/ocean...

A massive thanks for your feedback and for listening. Next time I'm in a serious mood for editing this track I'll take all of these comments into consideration.

Cheers,
M
 
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If you have the equipment, you could do this song as a very sparse arrangement and stereo mic the acoustic. You could then keep the guitar "centered" so-to-speak, as well as the vocal.
 
Hi all!

So I’ve really appreciated the feedback I got from some of the members here. I have taken into account specific things regarding the opening track (monochrome) and slightly “moistened” the dry guitar sound as well as reducing a hefty chunk of reverb from the vocals. Overall the track arrangement is still the same.

Just wanted to pass on my thanks as some of the comments really helped when revisiting the track.

Have a good day one and all.
 
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