My first attempt with sonar

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wfaraoni

wfaraoni

ear art's not a science
Hi I posted this song in a sonar forum in response to a : Let me hear your songs, thread. but I did not get much response there.
This is the first song I have tried to record in sonar and Im struggling with dissatisfaction on the following points. my voice is terrible so I have to double track it to cover up the pitch drift. Someone replied that the words are not clear or loud enough,,,I dunno,,, I know the words?? The drums are very weak, flat and run out of sync in acouple of spots,here and there, therefore I lowered the volume on them a little too much, I intend to spend some time trying to get a better drum sound. I miced the guitar and it has a thinness which was not my intention. I was trying to get an acoustic sound from my strat. Dont ask me why, I have a Yairi, I just did not pick it up when I decided to start recording :)
I guess the lesson learned here is to have a plan and use the right equipment.In my opinion when I correct the above I should have a greatly improved recording.
Let me know what you all think Thanks Bill

Ps. this aint headbanger stuff, Im an old fart!!

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1644&alid=-1
 
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there seems to be a lot of buzz noise.....what kind of sound card are you using? or maybe the amp is buzzing...

also, what are using for drums? the crash sounds very synthetic....

the vocals do sound very over-produced....trying not doubling, and just use compression, eq, and a touch of reverb.....it doesn't seem like you are missing notes or off pitch like you think they are....performance wise, i think they sound fine.....production wise, they don't sound fine.
 
kramer

Am I getting that deaf :( ? which string :) .. or is it my heavy handed playing pulling it all out of wack?
 
Your voice has a nice, warm tone to it. There are a couple of notes that aren't dead on, but nothing that a few extra takes and simple edits couldn't sort out. SONAR makes that kind of edit very straightforward.

Powderfinger's advice to use compression and EQ, maybe a little reverb, and nothing else is an excellent starting point. Your voice is pretty smooth and even, so you could even try just EQ and reverb initially. Lots of reverb can sometimes make things sound boomy, so try to just use a little, or roll off some of the low frequencies if this happens.

I think the doubling of the vocal might work OK, and it's worth experimenting with.

It sounds like you've panned the two vocal tracks fairly hard left and right. You could try bringing them closer to the centre, or even putting them both dead centre. If you do this, you might like to try cutting the level on one of them, to make the doubling effect a bit subtler.

You should also try Powderfinger's suggestion of not doubling at all. As someone said to me the other day, your voice isn't as bad as you think it is! ;)

Your voice would probably benefit from rolling off a bit of low EQ (maybe around 80-150 Hz downwards) and you could also try adding a couple of db boost around the 6-14 kHz area. This can make the vocal track a bit more "airy" sounding, and open it up a little. But I'm far from an expert, so these are just suggestions - try different changes, and see what works.

The drums are definitely the weakest aspect of the track. I think it would be better with simpler percussion, maybe a shaker or a tambourine. A nice, simple rhythm played on a real instrument and recorded carefully would be a better accompaniment than the synth-y drums you're currently using. This is just my tuppence-worth, though.

The guitar is slightly off tuning-wise - do you have an electronic tuner? If not, SONAR has one built-in on the Tools menu. It's always a good idea to tune immediately before recording.

I don't know if you use a capo, but I find it's well worth tuning *after* putting the capo on, in case it stretches the strings slightly and puts the intonation out.

On the guitar sound - I've never had much luck getting a decent strumming sound from an electric. Even the guitar modeller amp thingies don't really sound convincing as acoustics.

If you've got an acoustic guitar, it would definitely be worthwhile recording an additional track. Then you could do cool wee melody lines on the electric. And you could double the wee riff that you play already, on both guitars, bringing the two tracks together periodically throughout the song.

If you do record a couple of guitar tracks, you can experiment with panning them off-centre to give the vocals a bit of room. Probably not hard left and right, but try different approaches and see what sounds right.

All my comments come with a health warning - I don't really know what I'm doing most of the time. :)

I hope some of this helps.

Cheers

Alastair
 
powderfinger

Im using an audigy platinum. but there is no buzzing in the actual
recording maybe its the nowhereradio lo fi thing. yeah all the drums are terrible not just the cymbals. I did them direct from a yamaha keyboard to midi. Im looking for a better method, thats one reason I'm posting here. It seems that the only other response so far is that my guitar is out of tune. Doesnt sound out to me. Dont tell anyone, but I use an electronic tuner all the time. Maybe I should stop the I'M deaf jokes and go see if can still hear over 4000 cycles, last time I had trouble with 8000 :( (A bummer for real) and only 50 years young.. We used to play in a teen band I was in until our ears rang for hours, duh. A guitar out of tune drives me up the wall and Im always stopping some new players I'm teaching, when they are out! And I know the vocals stink but that is my special gift, the drums I hate, Hmm maybe I should just write poems :(

just kidding
thanks for the honest feedback
this is just a first recording and I realize that it needs much work
 
I liked the guitar sound,mabey try doing it twice and panning it stereo,that's what I do.

I think your voice sounds good too.
You seem to know what improvements need to be done,should make it much better.

I like the chording and melody,good start,definatly has potential!
Looking foward to hearing more.

Best to you,
Pete
 
I like the melody here, and the sound of the guitars...but the vocal was buried. Believe me, you have a fine voice. Get it out front so my 51 year-old ears can hear the words!
You know about the drum weakness. Alastair's suggestion to use real percussion instruments was a good one.
But I harp on the voice...in my opinion, no instrument should overshadow it.
Looking forward to more from you.

Mark
 
petelait and mkg

Thanks for the positive input. I agree that the vocal is not as pronounced as it needs to be. The double tracking really covered up a bunch of off key stuff. I could not even stand to listen to it one track at a time, It sounds like one of those severly tone deaf people. The drums, well, Im going to have to work on that quite a bit. Ive got fruity loops but this stuff all has such a steep learning curve for me. What I have in mind is generally available in the mix but its got a long way to go before it sounds like whats in my head. Im going to redo the whole thing from scratch when I have the time. Using all the tips Ive received here and a little more patience and skill. THanks all for your helpful feedback.It is appreciated.
Bill
 
alibish

Thanks for the feedback: The next time I record Ill have a plan and Ill also use an acoustic for this song. At the time I started just experimenting with what was close by. My electric, a bass amp a cheapo mic etc. just trying to get familiar with how everything works. I know that I can also do much better on the vocals but I was trying not to disturb the whole house. I probably still wind up with 2 panned tracks and your right that I need to keep them closer to center. Im also going to experiment , Beforehand, with both micing my acoustic as well as going direct with it. got some ideas on fattening it using the 2 track thing there as well. The vocals will probably need some eq as you suggested but a better mic will minimize that as well, I hope.

The drums, gee, thats got to be my biggest hurdle. Maybe neck and neck with raw talent. I dont expect to do a pro job, Im just not at that level, but to get a decent recording of whats in my head, now that MAY BE achievable.

Thanks for the great input
Bill
 
wfaraoni said:
but to get a decent recording of whats in my head, now that MAY BE achievable.
Click to expand...

Bill, that's exactly what I struggle with. I think I can write a good song, but by the time it gets tracked it's not very close to what I heard in my head. That's what makes this place so cool...a lot of generous and knowledgeable help.
There is hope, these guys have helped me tremendously in a short time.
Keep on keepin' on!

Mark
 
Good song- Nice melody---good guitar riff(though I think you shouldnt do that single note run so much)-I cant hear the words-only the melody---Sounds like guitar and vocals are sharing too much of the same space-try to carve out a little spot out of the guitar track(at your own risk)...Good tune just sounds unfinished-you got a bass guitar??Borrow one! I hear a nice ride cymbal beat over certain parts- drums are too sparse. Maybe another guitar track (slide??) make a little melody to put when theres no singing going on. Mostly I want to hear the words clearer....Good tune though...Check the drums around 4:10 does a high hat riff that just sounds out to me? Errr ramblin here-..........
 
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