My Experience With Sam Ash

  • Thread starter Thread starter Slackmaster2K
  • Start date Start date
contact information for samash.com

If you ever need to get in touch with a samash.com employee or have a problem with samash.com please feel to contact me directly at my email gabat@samash.com or my phone extension 800-472-6274 ext 2155. In addition, in our catalog and on the website in one of the policy pages there is a phone number in New York that you can call an Ash family member during normal business hours there. Paul Ash will cheerfully help customers resolve their problems anytime. If you like you can call me as well. Our company is growing at a fantastic rate of speed and unfortunately our customer service department is undergoing an overhaul that should be completed shortly. With that out of the way, there have been limited instances of QC problems with the DeArmond guitars. We sold quite a few of them in a very short amount of time and did not have very many problems at all. We are always willing to exchange any item within our policy and if it is defective we will be willing to exchange it with a call tag or an ups mail label. Unfortunately, we have run into problems with UPS being slow or unresponsive with call tags so mail out labels are going to be used primarily in the future. If a product is being returned for a refund for whatever reason it is not our policy to pay for shipping at this time. I would appreciate any input from this forum in regard to this issue. The last thing we want to do is alienate the customer base that we have been working so hard to build. I would ask that you be patient while the customer service department is being rebuilt. We should be completed with that project shortly. If any customer is having difficulty with response time I would like to hear from them (now or at any time in the future). Thanks for taking the time to read this post.
 
Wow, I was just about to post that a guy from Sam Ash emailed me, and that I was impressed that he did.

I didn't actually think that anyone from Sam Ash would read this thread, let alone respond!

Greg, I think it's great that you've responded here. I will comment about the policy you mentioned in your post:

I think that mailing return tags is the right thing to do, and that customer service reps should be able to generate RMA's right on the spot. Nobody likes to hear, "we'll call you in a few days with that information", because as in most cases, the call usually never comes.

I think that Sam Ash should absorb the shipping charges on items are not in 100% new working order. I'm not just talking about refusing a shipment if it appears to be damaged from the outside. People expect things to work right when they buy them, and if they don't work right from the get go, or stop working shortly thereafter, I think that people are going to expect the vendor to assume responsibility. It might be difficult, but happy customers are paying customers. Happy customers are also willing to pay a few dollars more here and there as well. Like I said, I bought a pair of Event 20/20's yesterday from 8thstreet even though they were 10 bucks more than most online vendors, simply because I am satisfied with the service I get from 8thstreet.

(Note: I don't think that Sam Ash should pay for shipping on items that people simply don't like, unless perhaps they are goign to exchange the item.)

Because you went out of your way to come here and post, I am willing to publicy detract some of the negative feelings I had about Sam Ash. If this is really the sort of effort that your company is willing to put out to satisfy customers, then you will be successful. Most vendors hide from things like this.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Re: contact information for samash.com

gabat said:


If a product is being returned for a refund for whatever reason it is not our policy to pay for shipping at this time. I would appreciate any input from this forum in regard to this issue. The last thing we want to do is alienate the customer base that we have been working so hard to build.

Click to expand...

I think that if your company ships out a defective product that it should definitely pay the return shipping.
 
Last edited:
I was just thinking, and feel that I should clarify....

I understand that Sam Ash will pay return shipping if the customer exchanges a defective item for a new item, and that's fine.

But consider my experience, because there are always exceptions. I DID exchange the first bass, and the second one was junky too. Am I supposed to exchange it for yet another DeArmond bass, even though a) you've got to be damn near out of them, as I was told that you had "one left" and b) I'm not really too keen on receiving another DeArmond bass guitar at this point.

I dunno, something to consider.

Slackmaster 2000
 
I think it is a very classy thing (and pretty brave) to do, to come here and post...hopefully this is just an isolated case....

As far as the return shipping, you may need to clarify...if you find that the product is defective and the customer just wants it replaced, will you pay for that shipping?...

Also, if you sell mics with Chinese capsules, beware of this guy named C7........
 
I too am impressed with their response on the BBS. However, nothing has changed. As I was thinking about this thread, I recalled the only experience that I've had with their company...I called in for a catalog and was told they'd ship it out ASAP. It's been nearly 6 years and I've yet to receive one. Is this a deal breaker? Perhaps as I have never bothered considering them for a purchase since they couldn't be counted on to send me a catalog (their sales pitch). It's a shame for them because I've spent nearly all of my studio money at Musicians Friend, 8th Street, Guitar Center, and a couple other vendors. The total being several thousand dollars.

I think the problem with Sam Ash is typical of many online companies in that they shouldn't be online since they obviously aren't prepared for it. They haphazardly join the internet community without realizing the needs of an online store. Then they shove all of the liability onto the consumer and explain away their problems with excuses like, "Our customer service is being overhauled." or "We're currently reorganizing our shipping department", all of which should have been done BEFORE they took anyone's money. Interesting that their billing department seems to be working fine. Tell me, did you get Slack's money yet? Of course you did.

No, I won't be buying anything from Sam Ash, and I will continue to tell anyone who asks about Slack's problems with them. They dug their own grave.
 
Gidge said:
I think it is a very classy thing (and pretty brave) to do, to come here and post...hopefully this is just an isolated case....

As far as the return shipping, you may need to clarify...if you find that the product is defective and the customer just wants it replaced, will you pay for that shipping?...

Also, if you sell mics with Chinese capsules, beware of this guy named C7........
Click to expand...

We do indeed pay shipping on items for exchange if they are defective or damaged if the customer wants to exchange it. In cases where there are multiple attempts to get a piece correctly I am looking into it.

Cmiller: I agree that in a perfect world all companies would have understood exactly what they were getting into when beginning internet operations. The internet has been a rapidly evolving (rather Darwinian) little world with companies experimenting and attempting to grow too rapidly. Please understand that the website is a small fraction of what samash.com does (name notwithstanding). We are primarily a catalog mailorder company that is becoming more and more invested in web business. Sam Ash purchased a company named Thoroughbred Music a couple of years ago that had a thriving mailorder operation. They have continued to devolop and improve the mailorder operation and the web site and those improvements are constantly on-going. Let me ask you a question: how many other mail-order companies give you the phone number for the owner of the company to call if you have a problem? I have worked in this industry for several years now and I have never worked for a company with that level of devotion to their customers. They have had success for over 75 years with that level of committment. There is no doubt that most companies failed to grasp the implications of involving themselves in internet sales. Sam Ash is determined to do the right thing by their customers and, as I said, I welcome any input from my customers and I look forward to hearing your response.
 
On the advent of the dot.com crave and a good economy, you are positioned well in a market that's growing like wild fire. You know it. The people you work with know it. This hasn't really been a competitive market. Prices are settling and nobody's doing anything spectacular to under-cut their contituancy. That's normal.
So the only way anybody is going to stand out is by way of customer service issues. Reputations are taking form and people are making purchasing decisions based on how they're treated across the board. This is nothing new in retail. Your web sales are expanding your exposure. You and other retailers need to acknowledge that increased volume adds up as quickly as getting current street priced sales.
My point is that what ever the increased costs are to maintain a higher level of customer satisfaction winds up back on the P&L by virtue of doing higher volume.

If you read through the evolving story of Slack's bass, you can see that others waited with him to see what the quality of the DeArmond would be, and then how he would be handled by Samash when problems arose.
If Slack would've come back and said "Wow! Those guys treated me like I was buying a Lexus!", you would have seen the impact on mondays numbers when every other bozo here bought something at Samash that weekend.

Wanna be the star? Great. Be a dollar cheaper than everybody else and be the fastest guy with a policy that is easy for the customer to live with. You are the hungry retailer and you need to be the one to bare the disscomforts/inconvieniences through out the service process. Things like eating the shipping costs can eat the profit out of one sale. But repeat sales and referals make make up for it in spades.

Lastly, I haven't dealt with anyone at your facility, so don't take this personaly. The people you have working the phones are only as effective as you train them to be. If you start with a jerk that just got canned at McDonalds for being habitualy late, you just make it tougher on yourself. If you don't frequently monitor the tone and atmosphere your people develope, they'll sink you. I'm sick to death of being mishandled by unknowledgable, indifferent reps that were left in charge by lazy management.

Sounds gruff but that's the way it is. I personally will pay a few bucks more to feel like I'm being treated like a customer rather than a pest with a problem. I will go out of my way to avoid arbitrary policies that make life more cushy for the seller but complicated for me.

Wow, did I get off track? I'm having "video store jerk" flashbacks!:D

Seriously Gabat, you guys can be the stars. But until someone shines, it's all just mediocre, and who to buy from is just a coin toss.

"Thankyou very much."
My father has left the building.:cool:
 
Believe me, I am impressed with the idea of you turning up here and expressing your concern over this issue, and I'm also very impressed that you've given us the owner's number if we need it. Thank you for that. I think it's a great way of showing us that Sam Ash IS concerned about their customers.

I still maintain that overall this is a huge problem in internet commerce. Every e-store out there with problems says the same things you're telling us..."We're under going a lot of change and we're acquiring more market share, we're restructuring our customer service division..." its all the same bottom line: customers suffer. As I said in my other post, did you take his money? Then you've made a committment to him. In fact, the second your site went active you've made a committment that you'll provide a service and merchandise. Your system works beautifully until it comes time to actually hold up your end of the bargain. In the mean time a customer is paying interest on stuff that's broken, lost in the mail, or sitting in your warehouse.

I really wish you the best of luck. I'd like there to be more competition in the marketplace. It's for that reason that I tell you my concerns. If the customer service isn't there, and in your case it hasn't been, then don't be surprised to read more posts like this. My money is more valuable to me than to risk on companies who haven't yet figured out the internet. Good luck, and thanks for stopping by. Please come back often!
 
Greg- I don't quite get your implication that the reason Sam Ash's customer service is bad for web orders is because you are primarily a mailorder company.

What's the difference between a mail order company and an internet retailer? The difference is that if you're an internet retailer, you save money on mailing out catalogs, and instead of staffing order takers (an inbound call center, or people to process paper order forms), orders come in electronically and can be automatically routed.

So it seems to me that any success Sam Ash sees on the web will allow you to over-invest in good customer service. It's a nice gesture that Jerry Ash's phone number is printed upside-down in 6-point type at the back of your catalog, but it would be far more impressive if Sam Ash proactively invested in making customers happy. What else is retailing about, anyway? You don't manufacture anything, and if you're online, you don't have the overhead of a physical storefront. In fact, the only value an internet retailer adds to a product sale is good service-- timely shipping, dealing with returns, and making customers happy. What else are you doing to earn your mark-up? A slick new website? Give me a break.

Pete
 
We'll see how this works out. I'll reserve judgment.

I will say that I have never known of a retail business that didn't skimp on customer service and support, nor have I known of one where this policy didn't turn out to be a false economy.

I have ordered three guitars from Sam Ash. All three orders had problems and only one has been resolved to my satisfaction.

As far as the refund policy goes, I understand why the current replacement-only policy is in place for prepaid returns; if a buyer decides he doesn't like the color or experiences some other manifestation of Buyer's Remorse and doesn't want to pay shipping, he can simply damage the guitar and send it back as defective at Ash expense.

The problem I have is when Ash holds the buyer's money hostage when there is no replacement item to ship. This is absolutely unconscionable. I ordered a guitar in June that finally arrived in late July with extensive finish cracks apparently due to poor storage. After numerous screw-ups and misinformation from Ash customer sevice, I returned this guitar and was told that there were no replacements in stock and that I would have to wait for one until SEPTEMBER and would not be issued a full refund if I did not wait. This is on a JUNE order!

Having discovered through experience that Ash delivery date information is rarely accurate, I called Howard Abrahams and asked him to check on the status of the order. He told me that there would BE no more of these guitars and that he didn't understand why I was being held to this backorder.

He said that he would have them issue me a refund. I will check today and see if my card has been credited for the full amount.

If I do not receive full and complete credit, there's going to be a war.
 
Bongolation: Please contact me directly and I will take care of your problem. Thanks.
 
gabat, i really do believe you are gonna help bongo out....the problem lies in the fact that ALL customers do not get this treatment.....you have to start from the bottom and get those people handling business on an everyday basis to understand that as a Customer Service Rep, their job is to serve the customer.....we dont expect miracles, but we dont like mis-information-if you dont know the answer to my question, find someone who does....dont lie to me - im an adult and i can handle the truth......
 
hixmix: "gabat, please contact bongolation directly so you can take care of his problem".
 
Hey, putatively I _have_ no problem _now_. I eventually got someone - Howard Abrahams, in this case - to at least act like he had the authority to do something besides dissemble and dither. I just have to wait until all the activity is posted to my card (next week, probably) to know one way or the other.

At that point I'll know if I need any further intervention.
 
I'm with C7. Damage Control. There is NEVER any excuse for poor customer service. Period.

I'm not impressed with the guy showing up here. I'd be surprised if he didn't. There's a lot of MONEY to be lost.
 
Sam Ash is 15 minute drive from my house and I prefer to actually go there and buy my gear. But I have mail ordered plenty of times w/o problems. I've used Musicians Friend, 8th street, zzounds, guitar center, you name it.

One time I ordered something from MF and three days later I realized my credit card had never been charged. So I called up with my Order# and they said the problem was resolved. Four days later and it still had not been charged. I called back very upset and they said this time your order was processed. But now I had to make sure that I still would receive the SALE price from when I actually placed the order...b/c the sale had ended during these 7 days of confusion. They charged me the sale price which saved me $50. They said it never went through the system. They also gave me a BOGUD UPS tracking number. I had to call them to obtain the correct one. I don't have a hatred towards them or anything. They could have done a better job. I know personally I'd probably order from them again. I don't know why.

Actually, I recently got a Sam Ash credit card...I'll probably be buying most of my stuff from there. I've tried to remain a loyal customer to certain places but they don't remain loyal to me. Stores locally arent that great. They cant stock like internet warehouses. Usually they tell me, "we can order it for you." But I'm like,"I can order it for myself...what do I need you for?" Since most places match the lowest prices, like Sam Ash, I browse the internet and print out the lowest price I can find. They've matched it everytime I've asked. I think they're a pretty good company. But when getuhgrip said who to buy from is a coin toss...that hit the nail on the head.
 
i'd been doing business with washington music center (chuck's to locals) since is was 15 or so. all the years i went, i was basicly ignored by the musician/salesman because i didn't look the part. it wasn't until i really started gigging locally and walked in like i was part owner that i started getting people's attention. i got fed up with the whole posturing deal and stopped shopping with them in favor of internet purchases. that was around 4 years ago. then 3 months ago, i happened to call them to see if they'd match an internet price for the roland xv-3080. i went in and the store had totally changed. everyone was nice and polite and attentive, but the guys who looked and acted like musicians - too busy to really be working in a store - were gone.

i do my musical internet shopping at: 8thstreet.com, kraftmusic.com, musiciansfriend.com, and ebay!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top