MSH-1A matched pair test

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Eat your hearts out dudes if you don't have a pair of MSH-1As. The hot Norwegian chicks dig 'em.

True... wow, thanks for the beautifully descriptive post and kudos to the photographer who took your picture for your new avatar!

mshil... I'd like to place an order for 3 more pairs of those magic-spell mic's. :D

Tim
 
Timothy Lawler said:
mshil... I'd like to place an order for 3 more pairs of those magic-spell mic's. :D

Wow, just wait until True gets a listen to the tube mic, I shudder to think of what might be possible :eek:
 
Tube mic?

Please elaborate. I just got in on this thread yesterday... :confused:
 
im also very late to this thread...is this a joke???
that sounds pretty damn clean...and those prices??? 0_o

might as well buy a pair just to have em...and help you along in making better stuff!
 
Is there any chance at all that you'll be making / selling cardioride or hypercard. versions as well? :)
 
mshilarious said:
I'll be publishing the schematic very soon. It might be useful for mic modders who want to gut something like an MXL63 to make their own tube mic :)

And here it is! I'm 95% certain this is the final design, or very close to it. For those into tube mics, you'll see that some of the design is (I think :o ) rather clever, and some of it is counterintuitive. For example I left the grid biased above the cathode, because it works better that way :confused: The 6418 tube is rated at 15V, so it isn't starved plate, but the filament is a little hungry--I could only manage 7mA, it is supposed to get 10mA. However, if I made some changes to get the current up a bit, the rest of the circuit is adversely affected. It is a very interdependent design, as the plate voltage sets filament current via the transistor.

Please be aware that the overriding goal of my designs is to use as few parts as possible, so I can fit them in an XLR connector. So if you look at something and think, "hey if he added three parts here . . .", then that is either because a) they wouldn't fit, or b) I'm an idiot :D

Obviously this is a very different design than I suppose AT used on the 3060, no transformers or DC-DC converters. Transformers are expensive, and DC-DC converters come with their own particular set of problems from a commercial production point of view, so I avoided them. As a result, the circuit wastes power, but hey, it's still milliamps, so I don't think the electric bill will be too bad ;)

The funny thing here is that the tube actually serves no electrical purpose in the circuit--it provides less current than the WM61A capsule--so from that point of view, it is completely superfluous, and Q1 is very necessary to be able to drive a preamp. However, it is in there doing its tube thing, increasing second order harmonic distortion by 10dB over MSH-1A, and actually reducing harmonic distortion above that. So far I think it sounds smoooove, but I need to assemble a prototype in its case, because I'm getting tired of singing into a breadboard :o

As far as the applicability of the circuit to another application, any electret capsule should be relatively easy to drop in, and if it doesn't have an internal FET like WM61A, then the tube would really serve as a first-stage buffer :) I'm sorry but I don't have experience with true condensers, so I don't know if there is enough voltage. It seems to me you'd want to take a separate tap off pins 2 & 3, which hang out at about 19V, and convert up if necessary.

Oh yes, Q1 doesn't have a part, actually I am using 2N5457 right now 'cause I've got 'em laying around, but I plan on trying a BJT instead, your favorite 100mA NPN should do the job.
 
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BTW, these mic's fit perfectly in Electrovoice mic clips - the small ones that come with the 635a. :cool:

Thanks for your comments Irishfolker and Blackhawk. :)

Tim
 
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Timothy Lawler said:
BTW, these mic's fit perfectly in Electrovoice mic clips - the small ones that come with the 635a. :cool:

They also fit the Shure A57F clip, for the SM81/KSM1xx/SM63 mics. And I bought some shockmounts from this guy that work great for just about any pencil condenser:

http://stores.ebay.com/Lighthouse-Enterprises

That shockmount has survived hundreds of insertions as I test my mics, and it shows no signs of wearing out :)
 
Any idea as for when the tube version will be available in the store?
 
anyway that you can throw a pair of these around a drumkit and bang on some things for about 30 seconds???
i'd love to hear just a quick snippet, and be assured they can handle the SPL

im talking loud rock drumming

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i assure if you can pull this off for me, i will buy a pair with the shockmounts!


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you know, provided it doesn't sound like donkey shit :P :D
 
Me? Sorry amigo, no can do. :D Maybe mshil's got something along that line though.

But I heard the similarly designed MSH-2 mic do an accurate capture of fireworks by timboZ in the previous thread (called the MSH-2 Evalution or something similar and posted by apl).

Tim
 
While I really appreciate the support I've gotten from this board, at some point y'all have to treat me like any other manufacturer, which is to say I can't be engaging in sales talk on the board.

There are three ways you can ask me direct sales questions, the link in my sig will get you to my site, where there are a plethora of links to my email, or PM or email me by clicking on my name above.

On the flip side, the day will come when somebody will want to post "the MSH-1As really blow chunks!", and that is cool too, y'all have the right to state your opinions without undue interference from manufacturers.

Thus I will limit my public comments to discussion of my designs on the basis of the schematics I have posted, for the benefit of DIYers.

As far as availability of future products, that would be speculative right now, and I am not going to make any more product announcements here. I seem to have a few fans that will probably mention something, but I am only going to put stuff up on my website and eBay.

Finally, regarding the shockmounts I linked above, those are not being sold by me. I am 0% affiliated with that seller, other than I've bought 3 of his shockmounts and I like them.
 
MSH: Have you tried Cutting the Trace to the Fet on the Capsules and useing them with the Tube Mic?? that way it would allmost be like a real Tube condenser as it would be Fetless and the Tube would be serveing the same purpose it does in regular Tube condensers (With some Modifications possibly) Replaceing the Fet.....

You might get a better SNR if the Fet is disabled(Though I doubt it as tubes are pretty Noisy but it is a Pretty Noise) and you will probably get a Higher SPL without the Fet, you might even try this technique with a Larger capsule , I have some Larger Elements that have a Frequency responce that is as Good as the 61-ay but have a really bad SNR because of the Fet and since they are Bigger (0.6cm to 1cm) the Trace to the fet is really easy to Cut and might give a different sound because of the much larger diaphram......

I can send you a couple with the Fet allready disabled for you to experiment with as long as I can get access to any working designs that come from it??
PM me with your address if you want them.....


This is a Bit off topic but I was wondering if you know much about createing a Ballanced output from a Non Ballanced audio source??
I am designing a Mic pre amp based on the INA103 Opamp, Most of the design comes directly from the Datasheet and I have most of the PCB allready designed accept that the output from the Preamp is unballanced and I want to find a way to get a Ballanced output or at least a Semi-Ballanced output (Maybe useing impedance Ballanceing or something like a Dual Mono TRS output)....

I can think of 3 or 4 ways to get (semi) Ballanced output , the First is useing a Audio transformer but that is way too expensive and creates it"s own set of problems, The second is useing a Dual Opamp which seems like my best option but I don"t know exactly how I would implement it??

I know if i feed the output from the INA103 into the Dual opamp sending the same audio signal to each side of the Dual i will get 2 exactly the same output signals, But that doesn"t nescessarilly mean it is ballanced as true Ballanced needs each signal to be of opposite Polarity, Right?? So I don"t know how to reverse the polarity of one of the Audio signals or Maybe it is allready the opposite Polarity?? Or maybe one of the Inputs of the Dual Opamp gets the Polarity reversed? will that make the Polarity on the other side reversed?? It seems that it wouldn"t and would just cause noise??
And how would I controll the Gain? would I leave the Dual opamp at Unity gain and controll the gain like normal with the INA103??

This option is something I only just heard about which is "Impedance Ballanceing" which is like a Semi ballanced output and it has pin 3 of the XLR connected to Ground with a Resistor in series of the value of the Output impedance so that the Impedance of Pin 2 (Signal) and Pin 3 are exactly the same and this gives you a impedance Ballanced output.....
The problem with this is that I don"t know of anybody that can confirm that this is the way to do it and is how it works......

The last option which I am considering is to have the Output being a female TRS (which is more like Unballanced Stereo/Dual Mono from what I understand) and have the same output signal on both Pins 2 and 3 which would give me Unballanced with 1/4in TS jacks and Dual Mono with 1/4 TRS jacks....Or do I also have this Screwed up???

Here is the my basic design so far (i am going to change the way the Ground Plane is implemented)...It has Phantom power and a 20db Pad and 60db of Gain useing a Rotary switch or a Reverse log taper Pot, I also added a CMR trim adjuster and might still add a +40db (gain 100) button and I added the Offset DC Controll loop but not useing the OPA627 as they are too expensive, i will replace with a OPA134...

https://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a300/mr_sevs/Ina103-Preamp-1.jpg

here is the Schematic it is based on:

https://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a300/mr_sevs/Ina103-Preamp.jpg

And here is the INA103 Datasheet:

http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/ina103.pdf


Sorry for all the Questions but getting answers out of the Folks at the Prodigy pro forum is like Pulling Teeth and you are the only Electronics Guru i know (And Like.. :D )....

ThanX a Lot.....
 
Minion said:
MSH: Have you tried Cutting the Trace to the Fet on the Capsules and useing them with the Tube Mic?? that way it would allmost be like a real Tube condenser as it would be Fetless and the Tube would be serveing the same purpose it does in regular Tube condensers (With some Modifications possibly) Replaceing the Fet.....

Marik tried that a while back. The problem is one side of the capsule goes to the gate of the FET. Marik tried to toast the FET in an attempt to cause a short between source and gate but I don't recall that he succeeded. So bypassing the FET completely would require removing the back of the capsule entirely, I believe. That's not something I'd like to get into since it's too difficult for production (I made 20 mics last night!), but let me know if you have success with that approach.

One thing to consider is that my design is never going to be like a typical tube condenser that has an all-tube path because my design won't work at all without the transistor.


I can think of 3 or 4 ways to get (semi) Ballanced output , the First is useing a Audio transformer but that is way too expensive and creates it"s own set of problems, The second is useing a Dual Opamp which seems like my best option but I don"t know exactly how I would implement it??

The most straightforward option might be an output driver IC like DRV134. Haven't used that myself though.

This option is something I only just heard about which is "Impedance Ballanceing" which is like a Semi ballanced output and it has pin 3 of the XLR connected to Ground with a Resistor in series of the value of the Output impedance so that the Impedance of Pin 2 (Signal) and Pin 3 are exactly the same and this gives you a impedance Ballanced output.....
The problem with this is that I don"t know of anybody that can confirm that this is the way to do it and is how it works......

Yes, that's pretty much how it works. It's a very common approach, especially in cheaper gear, since a resistor is much cheaper than another IC or a transformer.


Sorry for all the Questions but getting answers out of the Folks at the Prodigy pro forum is like Pulling Teeth and you are the only Electronics Guru i know (And Like.. :D )....

ThanX a Lot.....

Prodigy Pro is very hit or miss . . . it's unfortunate, because those guys know far, far more than I do. But they seem very dedicated to a select group of projects :confused:
 
Minion said:
Sorry for all the Questions but getting answers out of the Folks at the Prodigy pro forum is like Pulling Teeth and you are the only Electronics Guru i know (And Like.. :D )....

"Please use the search function. This question has been discussed many times already."
:D
 
gotta hear these for myself

Match Pair MSH-1A Omnidirectional Condenser Microphone paid for.

can't wait to get em.
 
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