MR-8 vs. VF-80

[mrx]

Ok, just what the hell. Things are getting weird....Bigsnake, Mrx, you guys think the box itself is gonna make or break you as an engineer, or effect your skill for better or worse, or efficiency, or writing/creativity?
T

You're missing the point. I don't know about you, but if there is a 'feature' on a machine, I will tend to use it. With the PS5, I used the built-in guitar effects "because they were there" - it was easy and it was something new. With the MR-8 I've been forced to build my guitar sound from scratch again. This has meant using better effects, switching guitars, etc. and has resulted in better recordings.

dyuob took the words out of my mouth regarding EQ - I've kept countless bad takes in the past by boosting the treble, or cutting the bass.

What we are saying is that our experience has shown we are getting better performances and better recordings on the MR-8 because there are no tools there to cover it up.

Granted, there will be a thousand guys out there, like bad contestants on American Idol, who will create and share really horrible recordings made with the MR-8. But for those of us who have used too much reverb, compression, EQ, chorus, etc. in the past to cover up bad recordings, the MR-8 is a refreshing change. A lot of people could stand to be locked in a room with a device like this to find out how they "really" sound. It's made me pay attention to my sound, performance and arrangements like never before and that alone is a steal for $299.

 

[markophonic]

dyuob took the words out of my mouth regarding EQ - I've kept countless bad takes in the past by boosting the treble, or cutting the bass.

What we are saying is that our experience has shown we are getting better performances and better recordings on the MR-8 because there are no tools there to cover it up.

On my Roland VS840ex I have a whole range of COSM effects and mic simulators etc. that are really nice to have but it made me lazy...I got to the point that I would never mic an amp any more because it was "easier" to dial one in on the machine.

Same goes with EQ and Effects....the most common mistakes usually come from over and under compensating something in the mix...too much reverb....too much compression....too much EQ etc.

With the simple features on the MR8, I've been forced to utilize mic placement, the sound of the room, guitar and amp choices, effect choices....Back to the FUNDAMENTALS!!!

I think the MR8 is a great unit for first time users getting their feet wet with recording...eventually they may move on to another unit...or the MR8 might might work fine as an "A/D converter" as MRX said in another post and allow them to transfer tracks to the PC for editing.

 

[mrx]

On my Roland VS840ex I have a whole range of COSM effects and mic simulators etc.

With the simple features on the MR8, I've been forced to utilize mic placement, the sound of the room, guitar and amp choices, effect choices....Back to the FUNDAMENTALS!!!

It's unfortunate, but I'm sure touting the "lack" of features on the MR-8 just sounds like sour grapes to many people, but maybe your experience will change some minds. After all, it's hard for the VF crowd to shoot you down if you've got a hard disk recorder sitting right next to your MR-8!

 

[PeteHalo]

With the simple features on the MR8, I've been forced to utilize mic placement, the sound of the room, guitar and amp choices, effect choices....Back to the FUNDAMENTALS!!!

That's the word, FORCED. I enjoy thinking with my own brains to get the best results that I can and not to be FORCED to do something just because it's the only way that some stupid machine let's me achieve my goal. For a beginner it feels safe and comforting not to have too many options to deal with or to distract your attention from the basic recording but when you get the handle of it you soon start wishing for some additional features. I've you're not one of them then lucky you but lucky me, I am.

I would have thought that freedom of choice would've had a special meaning to you Americans but I hate to admit it I was wrong.

 

[dyuob]

I would have thought that freedom of choice would've had a special meaning to you Americans but I hate to admit it I was wrong.

And I thought wanting more and more and never being satisified with what you've got was an American thing as well, guess I was wrong too.

 

[mrx]

I've you're not one of them then lucky you but lucky me, I am.

Huh? When does the sun come back in Finland?

 

[a12stringer]

PeteHalo,
As someone who judges forensic contests in his spare time, I have to point out that those who resort to ad hominem arguments of the type you continually use do so because they have no real factual basis to support their view.

 

[gospel]

I think what mrx is saying is not only that too many bells and whistles limit creativity, but also what happened to us on our latest studio recording. My group went to a studio in our town to record our latest CD. The studio has great equipment and when we finished the vocals we listened to the unmastered recording and it sounded good. I was there during some of the mastering and it seemed that the producer and engineer had so many technilogical "toys" at their disposal that the end result was not as good as the raw recording. I recently recorded 10 songs myself through our system in my house and dumped them into my computer, used some software to compress, do suttle eq changes, add effects, and burn to CD. I have had a lot of comments from folks that heard the studio project and my home project and liked the home one better.
If you followed me on the above story I think that is kinda what mrx is saying about more expensive recorders with more bells and whistles.

 

[PeteHalo]

Yes it's another thing to have bells and whistles than to have useful features. If I wanted bells and whistles I'd gone for a Yamaha AW16g or those Zoom or BOSS units.

It's still a mystery to me how a unit that forces you to do things its way or no way helps to increase your creativity. This is a totally new concept to me. I've always thought that people would be at the peak of their creativity when they wouldn't have to fight the machines to achieve what they want and instead of that could concentrate in doing what they've aquired the machines for in the first place but maybe I'm mistaken. Or maybe you mean that if you have to solve problems on one platform that wouldn't be problems at all on a different platform it would make you a more creative problem solver but would that make you a more creative musician is IMHO highly questionable.

 

[mrx]

It's still a mystery to me how a unit that forces you to do things its way or no way helps to increase your creativity. This is a totally new concept to me.

It's a mystery to me how this became a discussion about 'creativity.' The word 'creative' was used in the context of mic placement, as I recall.

What we are saying is that an unexpected benefit of the MR-8 is that it removes the tempatation to cover up bad recordings with cheesy effects and EQ.

We all have plenty of tools to mess with a recording on a PC, but the MR-8 provides that 'cooling off period', where there's still time to say "I could play that better" or "maybe I should use my Tele", rather than simply pouring more reverb over the top and calling it a hit.

 

[dyuob]

I've always thought that people would be at the peak of their creativity when they wouldn't have to fight the machines to achieve what they want and instead of that could concentrate in doing what they've aquired the machines for in the first place but maybe I'm mistaken.

All machines have their little quirks, every machine out there will stifle creativity if you let it. It's up to the person creating to see bast the limitations, and find what works for them. And it's not always the biggest and best, nor the most appearant thing either, sometimes it's something that one would never expect. Rememebr, the Beatles used Epiphone guitars quite a bit, and they could have used any instrument they wished.
You always have to fight machines, otherwise you would just sing and it would turn into a cd.

 

[bdbdbuck]

At the risk of being chastised for bringing this thread back up, I think I have the perfact example of the real difference between the vf-80 and the mr-8. I'm quite happy with my mr-8, I have a very good pc w/a cd burner. On the other hand, my daughter has an old pc w/o a cd burner. She just purchased a vf-80 w/cd-rw from MF for $699. That unit will serve her needs just like the mr-8 serves my needs. It took her a long time to make the decision, she made the decision on her own, based upon her needs and budget. I am glad she made the decision to buy a Fostex unit. I'm not sure I would have made the same decision (versus upgrading the pc and buying the mr-8).....but I'm not the one who will be using it.


bd

 

[mrx]

It took her a long time to make the decision, she made the decision on her own, based upon her needs and budget. bd

Good for her! That's exactly the point - she researched the options and made an informed decision.

She live close enough that you can play with both units? It would be great to get your thoughts, first hand.

 

[bdbdbuck]

She lives about an hour away, and we plan to do some jam sessions. I am interested in seeing how the two can sorta co-exist. It will be fun experimenting with them.


bd

 

[billisa]

Here's the thing, as I see it...

There is a wealth of technology and a plethora of options, many of which will work just fine... It's so hard to know exactly where to make firm decisions. I'm expecting to make my move in a few weeks, but with so many options, it's not an easy decision. There are just so many nice toys out there... I still remember the days of coveting a TEAC 4 track reel to reel (that I couldn't afford). My old JVC KD2 portable stereo cassette deck (a very nice unit I still have) cost me $300 in 1975! The MR8 that, I would expect FAR, FAR exceeds the JVC in every area, costs the same!! $300!!!! Today!!! It really is incredible. I am leaning towards the VF80 because of its longer recording time, ability to burn CD's and it's supposedly better effects. But ask me in 5 minutes and I could give you a different answer!

As someone who remembers what it was like 30 years ago, just keep in mind how lucky we are to have such a range of options. Also, remember that it's so important for your equipment to become a seamless part of you. If it does, you will get the most out of it and your music will sound great, NO MATTER WHAT YOU BOUGHT (MR8, VF80, etc,etc,etc,etc,etc...)

 

[clifchamb]

Re: Here's the thing, as I see it...

There is a wealth of technology and a plethora of options, many of which will work just fine... It's so hard to know exactly where to make firm decisions. I'm expecting to make my move in a few weeks, but with so many options, it's not an easy decision. There are just so many nice toys out there... I still remember the days of coveting a TEAC 4 track reel to reel (that I couldn't afford). My old JVC KD2 portable stereo cassette deck (a very nice unit I still have) cost me $300 in 1975! The MR8 that, I would expect FAR, FAR exceeds the JVC in every area, costs the same!! $300!!!! Today!!! It really is incredible. I am leaning towards the VF80 because of its longer recording time, ability to burn CD's and it's supposedly better effects. But ask me in 5 minutes and I could give you a different answer!

As someone who remembers what it was like 30 years ago, just keep in mind how lucky we are to have such a range of options. Also, remember that it's so important for your equipment to become a seamless part of you. If it does, you will get the most out of it and your music will sound great, NO MATTER WHAT YOU BOUGHT (MR8, VF80, etc,etc,etc,etc,etc...)

I know EXACTLY how you feel. It took me three months to come to a decision on what recorder I was to buy and it wasn't eben until the final week that I finally made the resolve to make a purchase. And I am very happy with what I have now, no regrets



clif

 

[billisa]

So here's what I have it narrowed down to..

VF80CD (Like I already said), (2) Samson C02 condensors w/shock mounts, Micro-Korg synth, Zoom 123 drum/bass box... There's somewhat of a leraning curve with all of these, but learning is not a bad thing.