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chessrock
Banned
Man, I'm glad my sound editor has an "undo" function.
Whhhoo !
Whhhoo !
MISTERQCUE
Not Just Anutha Brutha
That's why I'm glad also that I use out-board dsp's!
After working on a com-pooter all day at work, the last thing I
want to see when I get home is a com-pooter, yet alone, record on one! (though there are many advantages to using one,EXCEPT
you get no pretty,flashin' lites!!
)
After working on a com-pooter all day at work, the last thing I
want to see when I get home is a com-pooter, yet alone, record on one! (though there are many advantages to using one,EXCEPT
you get no pretty,flashin' lites!!
)
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
The main concern with outboard gear is your signal path for the effects loop. Hopefully you have enough outputs and a clean mixer. If not you are probably better off with a plug in.
I'm using a Roland VM3100Pro with built in effects and I must admit to being pretty impressed. I haven't done much studio type recording in about 8yrs and the new 24bit reverb units blow away the old stuff. No more grungy reverb trails and added hiss.
It's cool using a digital mixer also because it has 2 seperate fx units and compressors and I can route to them from Logic without doing any DAC.
I'm using a Roland VM3100Pro with built in effects and I must admit to being pretty impressed. I haven't done much studio type recording in about 8yrs and the new 24bit reverb units blow away the old stuff. No more grungy reverb trails and added hiss.
It's cool using a digital mixer also because it has 2 seperate fx units and compressors and I can route to them from Logic without doing any DAC.
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Griffinator
New member
CyanJaguar said:
Well, thankfully, I've not had this problem. I've had good luck with Trueverb both on full-mix sweetening (I've used the Studio B and various personal hybrids thereof for clients and they've loved it) and on individual track tweaks (including vocals - subtle echo to create space) and had no problems with it sounding "digital" or "tacked on".
Perhaps it's methodology? Perhaps it's just personal taste. Until I dig up the vintage hardware 'verbs on my wish list, this engineer is sticking with Waves.
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crisdhunter
New member
Well, my experience with shopping for reverbs, I kind of feel like Goldilocks, this one is too hard, this one is too soft, this one is too hot…. And so on. Until I came across T.C. Electronic. I found their reverb sound to be the most versatile. I can get the reverb de’jour(as chessrock interprets it), yet you can get a some really classic sounds as well. I have used their outboard units and favored them over Lexicon. Now I use their Native Plug-In’s, they have most(not quite all) of the parameters that the outboard’s have, but they are PC hogs(VST Version less so than DirectX). So once again T.C. came to my rescue. They introduced the PowerCore(they market it under the TC Works Name) which is a hardware/software plug in.
In essence it’s a PCI card with 5 DSP Processors, even has some RAM onboard. This lets your PC do it’s own thing and handles all the DSP though your PCI Buss, basically it won’t slow your system down.
I finally convinced the guy at a local music store to set one up for me so I can test it(beat the shit out of it), and now I have one on order. By the way it also comes with Compressor, Voicestrip and Finalizer plug in’s. I found it to be the best of both worlds for my mainly PC Based recording setup. It’s a bit steep($1000) but I feel it’s well worth it.
Check it out at:
http://www.tcworks.de/home/content/en/Welcome/render_top
Click on Products, then Powercore
In essence it’s a PCI card with 5 DSP Processors, even has some RAM onboard. This lets your PC do it’s own thing and handles all the DSP though your PCI Buss, basically it won’t slow your system down.
I finally convinced the guy at a local music store to set one up for me so I can test it(beat the shit out of it), and now I have one on order. By the way it also comes with Compressor, Voicestrip and Finalizer plug in’s. I found it to be the best of both worlds for my mainly PC Based recording setup. It’s a bit steep($1000) but I feel it’s well worth it.
Check it out at:
http://www.tcworks.de/home/content/en/Welcome/render_top
Click on Products, then Powercore
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jeronimo
New member
Get the T.C. Electronics M-One or M-One XL. Those kick the MPX´s ass.
Speeddemon
New member
in what way, Jeronimo?
Have you a/b-ed them? What were your findings? I'm asking, because I can't decide between the mpx500 and the tc m-one (xl). I have only heard the tc, and I liked it a lot.
Jslator (on harmony central) told that although the Lex has better sounding verbs on their own, the TC verbs seem to suit the mix better.
Any thoughts, folks?
Have you a/b-ed them? What were your findings? I'm asking, because I can't decide between the mpx500 and the tc m-one (xl). I have only heard the tc, and I liked it a lot.
Jslator (on harmony central) told that although the Lex has better sounding verbs on their own, the TC verbs seem to suit the mix better.
Any thoughts, folks?
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Raven586
New member
Hi guys
What do you think of the reverbs on the Yamaha SPX90.
Yes I have 1 pretty good reverbs on it .
You could probably pick 1 up for cheap these days.
It cost me $800 bucks in the day.
Raven 586.
What do you think of the reverbs on the Yamaha SPX90.
Yes I have 1 pretty good reverbs on it .
You could probably pick 1 up for cheap these days.
It cost me $800 bucks in the day.
Raven 586.
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pundit
New member
I recently purchased a TC Electronic M-One XL after comparisons with an MPX-500. The MPX-500 was okay but the M-One XL was far better IMO. Having spdif I/O will let you print the effect to your DAW if you want.
If you want a Lexicon either get a PCM91 or better. I don't think the MPX stuff really is all that great.. even the MPX1 which is twice the price of the M-One is by no means twice the verb.
As for reverb plugins Truverb (which should be referred to as 'Pooverb') sounds like shit to my ears. It's resonant and quite metallic... and there are shitloads of much better options out there. Waves Renaissance verb, while still colored, is much warmer than Trueverb. In fact I'd rather use no reverb at all than Trueverb.
If you running a Mac then either go for Altiverb or TC's Powercore. On PC/VST TC Powercore once again or Sonic Foundry's Acoustic Mirror (Modeller) is the way to fly for decent reverbs.
Acoustic Mirror is unfortunately no longer available on it's own and now comes as part of Soundforge. The other problem concerns Sonic Foundry itself which appears to be in deep financial difficulty at the moment.
Convolution based reverbs like Altiverb, Acoustic Mirror and the top end Sony and Yamaha hardware units are only limited by the quality of the impulse files (reverb samples) used to create the effect. These can produce quality reverbs as good as anything, either real or otherwise.
I have Lexicon MPX500, TC Electronic M3000, Quantec Yardstick and several other 'reverb units' all 'inside' my PC running under Acoustic Mirror... along with several sampled concerts halls, churches and other acoustic environments.
There is no reason while software convolution based reverbs can't sound as good as the hardware units. The only limiting factor is processing power (as far as realtime operation is concerned), useablity for adding effects while monitoring, and the portabilty factor.
If you want a Lexicon either get a PCM91 or better. I don't think the MPX stuff really is all that great.. even the MPX1 which is twice the price of the M-One is by no means twice the verb.
As for reverb plugins Truverb (which should be referred to as 'Pooverb') sounds like shit to my ears. It's resonant and quite metallic... and there are shitloads of much better options out there. Waves Renaissance verb, while still colored, is much warmer than Trueverb. In fact I'd rather use no reverb at all than Trueverb.
If you running a Mac then either go for Altiverb or TC's Powercore. On PC/VST TC Powercore once again or Sonic Foundry's Acoustic Mirror (Modeller) is the way to fly for decent reverbs.
Acoustic Mirror is unfortunately no longer available on it's own and now comes as part of Soundforge. The other problem concerns Sonic Foundry itself which appears to be in deep financial difficulty at the moment.
Convolution based reverbs like Altiverb, Acoustic Mirror and the top end Sony and Yamaha hardware units are only limited by the quality of the impulse files (reverb samples) used to create the effect. These can produce quality reverbs as good as anything, either real or otherwise.
I have Lexicon MPX500, TC Electronic M3000, Quantec Yardstick and several other 'reverb units' all 'inside' my PC running under Acoustic Mirror... along with several sampled concerts halls, churches and other acoustic environments.
There is no reason while software convolution based reverbs can't sound as good as the hardware units. The only limiting factor is processing power (as far as realtime operation is concerned), useablity for adding effects while monitoring, and the portabilty factor.
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chessrock
Banned
Pundit, thanks for reviving this thread.
Would you happen to have any accoustic mirror impulses you would care to share? I am willing to negotiate (and also have a few of my own), so feel free to pm me if you get the chance.
Would you happen to have any accoustic mirror impulses you would care to share? I am willing to negotiate (and also have a few of my own), so feel free to pm me if you get the chance.
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littledog
New member
Trueverb was never designed to be particularly "pretty" or musical. It was more for accurate representations of specific sized and shaped rooms.
While the Renaissance Reverb is Waves "musical" reverb product, I favor ReverbOne as a ProTools plug-in. I also like TC MegaReverb, which may not be better than Renaissance Reverb, but I've been using it for so many years that I know how to make it do what I want quickly. Familiarity can be it's own reward.
While the Renaissance Reverb is Waves "musical" reverb product, I favor ReverbOne as a ProTools plug-in. I also like TC MegaReverb, which may not be better than Renaissance Reverb, but I've been using it for so many years that I know how to make it do what I want quickly. Familiarity can be it's own reward.
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pundit
New member
littledog said:
Unfortunately I didn't like the 'rooms'!
What I didn't like with Trueverb was it always seemed to suffer from the same type of resonant coloration no matter how the parameters were set.
Granted it tended to have that 'room' kind of sound but the hall and cathedral settings just sounded like a bigger longer versions of the same basic algorithm.
Maybe it was considered the 'bees knees' five years back but I didn't even like it then.
Still YMMV!
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littledog
New member
pundit said:Unfortunately I didn't like the 'rooms'!
I never found it that attractive either, (maybe because in real life most rooms don't sound that good!) but there is a way to use it in musical situations:
turn off the early relfections. (or just use the plate algorhythms)
even in it's early years, most people far preferred the TC or Lexicon reverb plugins.
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Robert D
New member
I A/B'd the MPX 500 and TC M-One. I went into it as a dyed in the wool Lexi fan, but had been told by several people to listen to an M-One. I was blown away by how much better the M-One is. Absolutely no contest.
I also have a TC Powercore. Absolutely Awesome!
As far as being stuck with the reverb you print, just print your external reverb return, 100% wet, to a track, then use the track fader to adjust the reverb return as you mix. If you decide you don't like that verb, just print a new one.
RD
I also have a TC Powercore. Absolutely Awesome!
As far as being stuck with the reverb you print, just print your external reverb return, 100% wet, to a track, then use the track fader to adjust the reverb return as you mix. If you decide you don't like that verb, just print a new one.
RD
C
chessrock
Banned
Robert D said:
Props to the voice of reason. I was waiting for someone to say that.
scottboyher
New member
Personally I would go with outboard gear any time I had the chance but I just isn't practical for my situation right now..
I guess I depends alot on what you are recording to.
I guess I depends alot on what you are recording to.
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chessrock
Banned
Accoustic Mirror really does deliver the goods. It's just been blowing away the plugins.
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jslator
New member
chessrock said:
I tried that a couple of years ago. It really did sound quite a bit better than any other plugin I had heard at the time. I remember that it was extremely processor intensive though. I recall not being able to use it in real time at the higher quality settings because it would completely bog the machine down. I don't suppose you know whether it's been re-coded over the last couple of years to be more efficient, do you? Or, maybe with the faster processors these days that wouldn't be a problem any more.
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A1A2
New member
jslator :
I tried it on my P4 2.4ghz, my PC was struggling a bit for the first time
I doubt I can use it in real-time easily...
AL
I tried it on my P4 2.4ghz, my PC was struggling a bit for the first time
I doubt I can use it in real-time easily...AL
C
chessrock
Banned
Sigh . . .
Please re-read Robert D's post. Particularly the part that goes:
As far as being stuck with the reverb you print, just print your external reverb return, 100% wet, to a track, then use the track fader to adjust the reverb return as you mix. If you decide you don't like that verb, just print a new one.
RD
What I'll do is print a bunch of different reverb tracks -- usually just a measure or two, 100% wet, then bring those up in the project and audition them (The relative volume of the wet track will determine the amount of reverb).
Once I find one I like, I'll go back and process the entire track with it, 100% wet, save a copy of it as it's own reverb track and bring it up in the project.
Please re-read Robert D's post. Particularly the part that goes:
As far as being stuck with the reverb you print, just print your external reverb return, 100% wet, to a track, then use the track fader to adjust the reverb return as you mix. If you decide you don't like that verb, just print a new one.
RD
What I'll do is print a bunch of different reverb tracks -- usually just a measure or two, 100% wet, then bring those up in the project and audition them (The relative volume of the wet track will determine the amount of reverb).
Once I find one I like, I'll go back and process the entire track with it, 100% wet, save a copy of it as it's own reverb track and bring it up in the project.