mp3s.

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FALKEN

FALKEN

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I have posted mp3s of my most recent stuff. 3 analog , and 1 digital. the digital song is live, with my drummer, at his house. the first three songs i recorded all of the tracks myself, so don't mind the horrible drumming. and don't worry about the hiss on the acoustic track. I was 'experimenting' with mic placement. none of these have any post-mix processing. if requested, I can also post .wav files.

listen to them loud.

enjoy.








 
I also wanted to ask...

I have been using all mid-level gear thus far and want to know, for my style, if it would be worth it to get anything better but I dont know anybody with experience with this stuff, especially in rock music and anti-establishment rock music at that. I am not trying to sound the same as everyone else but still want to sound extremely hi-fi. u know what I mean??? I have built my own studio to get my own sound.

I have been looking speficially at acoustic treatment, a neve pre, a new vocal mic, new drum overheads, expensive cabling, a high quality 2 channel coverter, and a new mixer. All of this would add up to maybe ten grand, which I can afford, but would go against my notion of what a home studio should be, and what a punk rock studio should be.

so please, listen, and tell me if there is any room for improvement, over my sorry mid-level gear.
 
SHOULD - The first thing that hit me is the vocal, it's got too much ambient sound from the room or verb, can't tell which. In any event, it sits too far back in the mix.

The guitars bugged me a little but it's probably just the tone you're using. Seems a bit middy and harsh, that's more of a preference thing. The drums seemed a little buried in the mix, same issue as the vocal, too much ambient sound and probably should be more forward in the mix. Right now the guitar dominates.

To comment on your equipment choices seems premature because you could solve all the issues I mentioned with different mic positions, a little eq, and other mixing tricks. Don't be too quick to assume you need a new piece of gear just because something doesn't sound right.
 
These mixes sound a little too 2-dimensional to me. Somewhat lifeless. What are your room treatment and monitor situations? I am inclined to think you would gain more from improving those areas first. Not that I'm an expert on these things, as I mix on computer speakers in an untreated room ;) . However, it seems that you are getting some nasty room sound on these recordings.
 
For what its worth...

I listened to SHOULD. It's a pretty good song, I like it.
I have to agree with both scrubs and Phyl in that there is just too much 'room' sound in the drums and vox. The Kick sounded a bit too pillowy to my ears; it could use some more attack. I would suggest sound attenuation in the room you're in--I've found bass traps to have a profound effect on the sound of the room. Is it possible to get the OH's a little closer to the kit maybe? Don't think the vocal sound is a verb issue, it almost sounds as if it was sung from well over a foot or two away from the mic.
 
FALKEN said:
I also wanted to ask...

I have been using all mid-level gear thus far and want to know, for my style, if it would be worth it to get anything better but I dont know anybody with experience with this stuff, especially in rock music and anti-establishment rock music at that. I am not trying to sound the same as everyone else but still want to sound extremely hi-fi. u know what I mean??? I have built my own studio to get my own sound.

I have been looking speficially at acoustic treatment, a neve pre, a new vocal mic, new drum overheads, expensive cabling, a high quality 2 channel coverter, and a new mixer. All of this would add up to maybe ten grand, which I can afford, but would go against my notion of what a home studio should be, and what a punk rock studio should be.

so please, listen, and tell me if there is any room for improvement, over my sorry mid-level gear.
Click to expand...


What I'd like to know is what you are using now. What's your room like? What mics are you using, and how are you placing them?

I can't really comment because I don't know if you don't have the right tools or if you do and you're using them improperly. Don't take that the wrong way; I like your song - I just don't know that moving to higher end gear is going to net you a better result than midrange gear and a little knowhow/room treatment.

So what's under the hood? :)
 
well i really wish you guys would listen to more than just one song. you might hear a mich nicer kick drum on the 2nd track. that is why i posted a few. you can really hear the room on the 3rd track. on that one i actually did sing 4 feet away from the mic.

on the first song i mixed in a room mic with the vocal mic. I wanted it to sound that way. also my entire house is tile so it sounds like a giant bathroom. the drums were recorded in the jam room, with omni dynamics for overheads, and kick and snare close mic'd. so that is why they sound reverby. everything else was recorded in the control room, which is smaller. I have done no acoustic treament and actually posted in that forum to listen to my stuff and make recommendations.

anywayz that sound is what i was going for. i like experimentation and weirdness. that is why i wish you all had listened to the other tracks. that first one sux. they all suck really. and i probably mixed the guitars too loud.

i am most concerned with the vocals and kick and snare drum so please listen to track 2 at least!!! there is less room sound on the vocals and the drums sound really good. the vocals seem to have a sort of distortion to them, I am not sure if it is the mic, the tube pre, the tape, or the compressor, or all of the above, but probably all of the above. if I replaced my cool-ass mid-level tube pre with a neve do you think I could still get that sound??

like I said I really like my sound but the vocals and drums are not "up front" enough. which you all noticed. i dont think it is the amount of reverb, I didn't add any artificial verb. I think it is in the pres and the mics. it is not present enough. the snare needs to be more up front. that is why i was thinking a neve pre. and tube overheads that i could double as vocal mics.

what do you all think?
 
p.s. i dont want to tell you exactly what stuff im using cuz they you will critique that instead of the way it sounds!! and i read that cheeseburger 911 call that was funny.
 
i agree with the other guys.
i listened to all tracks and in all of them i see a huge room problem. not just the third track.

you're mostly concerned with the kick/snare/vocals right?
they all have a boxy "hey i'm here in an untreated room" sound :confused:

i can understand if you like the way the room colors your music but i would suggest using FX instead, so you can better control how far exactly your vocals sit back.

go for some room treatment and maybe a makeshift isolation booth.

beyond that it sounds like you know what you're doing. treat the room and i guarantee your mixes will SOUND like you spent 10k dollars to improve them when you really don't need to.
 
I listened to all the tracks the first time and stand by my comments.
 
FALKEN said:
1) the drums were recorded in the jam room, with omni dynamics for overheads, and kick and snare close mic'd.


2) anywayz that sound is what i was going for. i like experimentation and weirdness.

3) i am most concerned with the vocals and kick and snare drum if I replaced my cool-ass mid-level tube pre with a neve do you think I could still get that sound??

4) like I said I really like my sound but the vocals and drums are not "up front" enough. I think it is in the pres and the mics. it is not present enough. the snare needs to be more up front. that is why i was thinking a neve pre. and tube overheads that i could double as vocal mics.

what do you all think?
Click to expand...



Thanks for responding to my earlier post. I saw your response as four separate questions/issues.

1) Omni mics are going to really bring out your room. You may prefer some cardioid condeser microphones for a bigger more focused sound. I would invest in some quality microphones long before I'd invest in a top level pre. Instruments, then room, then monitors, then mics, then pres, in order of most improvement for the buck. The close miked snare needs some goosing, but as I'm having problems getting a great snare sound myself, I won't offer too much in the way of technical advice on that. Just balancing it with a good OH sound should be sufficient. Josephson C42MP are nice for rock OH. If you want nicer I'd look at a pair of Microtech Gefell M300 or M930.

2) I get it. The DIY sound is evident. You have to decide if you want to sound lo-fi cause it's punk rock, or if you want to record hi-fi punk rock. I've heard both and I like both from time to time. If'n you're looking to buy some top end pres I'd say the latter. I like end a lot by the way.

3) I think you'll get that sound by getting the right talent in front of the right mics in the right room - in that order. The pres are going to make an important but very subtle difference. Mics will make a more immediate improvement.

4) A high quality stereo pre isn't a bad idea for any recording musician. Check out The Rack forum, that stuff is out of my league. I know Neve is coming out with a sub 2K stereo pre - but I don't know anyone who's heard it yet. I'm happy with an RNP/RNC and TwinQ for right now. Anyway, it sounds like you might want something with transformers in it.

It sounds to me like you want to put a really nice signal chain together. I think that if you have mid-level gear, as you say, you could get a lot more out of it before you need to drop serious dough on acoustic treatment, a neve pre, a new vocal mic, new drum overheads, expensive cabling, a high quality 2 channel coverter, and a new mixer. Get one piece at a time and learn to use it well, then add the right pieces as you go along. You'll save money by not buying twice or buying the wrong stuff.

My $.02
 
I apologize for not listening to all the tracks right off. My computer is like 600 years old and I'm (embarassingly) using dial-up. Anyway, I listened to 2 more (2 & 3). I like the material. Very cool. I like the idea of the 'far away' vocal on 3 (end).
I definetely understand your wanting to work with the room sound you have. I am not an expert either (see scrubs, above) but I think that I am right in believing that the more room sound that is initially recorded, the less 'up front' it will be. And despite close-micing the kick and snare, the room sound of the OH's will ultimately effect the way the drums sit in the mix.
Keep experimenting. I will too. I've yet to record the drums the same way twice!
Good job.
 
thanks, man.

the vocals, guitars, and drums all had near and far mics so that I could change the amount of reverb without using any effects.

now, if the room sound on the close mic sounds like shit, thats a problem.

and If I "treat" that problem and can no longer get my far sound, I will be dissapointed. I think portable treatment.
 
I agree with the comments thus far, and I think whatever the combination of things you were doing on "I Step In Your Love" is the clear winner. Vocals sound live but don't have that big room distant sound that just doesn't work for me.

Punk is all about dry and tight for the most part, that song pretty much nailed it.

The guitars in "Denied" are really harsh and way too hot.

The acoustic vs. vocal balanced in "End" are way off in that the guitar is very dry and close and the vocals are distant with lots of room sound. In cases where it's a singer and guitar I'd tend to have them in the same sonic space (like it would sound hearing it played by the singer).

War
 
The DIY sound is evident. You have to decide if you want to sound lo-fi cause it's punk rock, or if you want to record hi-fi punk rock. If'n you're looking to buy some top end pres I'd say the latter.

Get one piece at a time and learn to use it well, then add the right pieces as you go along.
Click to expand...

its sort of like this..........
I have been doing that for almost 10 years and I am finally to where I am going to be making releases. so there is sort of pressure and anxiety to get everything in place. unfortunately, I found *home* recording . com , where everybody uses ten thousand dollar channels. so I start researching and lo and behold all of the 'indie' artists use that stuff. shit. I had no idea. so I have really had to come to terms with my own notions of what home recording is and isn't. and its tough, man. cuz I really thought that a few $2-300 tube pres and compressors, along with maybe 10-15 $1-200 mics, and a $300 used 16-channel former-PA-mixer were going to make it happen for me. now I dont know what to think.

on top of it, there is contrary opinion on whether better mics or better pres will make more of a difference, daily on this board. I know that all of this stuff is 100% subjective but sometimes it creates more anxiety than it relieves.

thanks for all of the help.
 
FALKEN said:
I found *home* recording . com , where everybody uses ten thousand dollar channels. so I start researching and lo and behold all of the 'indie' artists use that stuff. shit. I had no idea. so I have really had to come to terms with my own notions of what home recording is and isn't.
Click to expand...

I don't think this assessment is totally correct. Certainly, there are people on this board with tens to hundreds of thousands invested in their gear and rooms. However, there are many more getting by with behringer mixers and SM 57s/B1s. I'll be the first to tell you that you can make decent sounding (not necessarily "professional" sounding -- whatever that means) recordings with cheap gear. None of the gear in my home studio cost more than $300. I am relatively happy with what I have and the quality of recordings I can make on a budget. Expensive equipment will make your life easier, but a $2000 pre isn't going to cover up the sound of your room. Like I said before, working on room treatment and monitors will likely improve your sound, as will experimenting with more close miking (which takes some of the room out of the equation). Good luck.
 
I believe the last song, "End," is the best mix out of them all. There is a lot of presence in the acoustic guitar (could sound more full, though). However, having the guitar close miked and the vocals way back in the room feel somewhat unnatural. One person can't be in two different locations at the same time. But that's what somewhat sets the mood of the song. The mood is melancholy. You would be far away in the background... thinking and singing sadly, "It's not what it seems" while the guitar is upfront and driving the story/song.
 
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