Garry Sharp
Lost Cause
ibanezrocks said:
Well I certainly agree. My Fender Jazz is streets ahead of the Rickenbacker.
Well I certainly agree. My Fender Jazz is streets ahead of the Rickenbacker.
A
acorec
Banned
Light said:
Yeah, but he uses $5 strings from the sale bin.
honedawg
New member
Gibson
I went to the Gibson showcase in Nashville looking for a high end acoustic last year. They had a blond maple jumbo model that had a price tag of $3350. It had at least five dead spots on the neck. I was there for two hours while my wife was malling and I couldn't find one guitar that I liked.
I went to the Gibson showcase in Nashville looking for a high end acoustic last year. They had a blond maple jumbo model that had a price tag of $3350. It had at least five dead spots on the neck. I was there for two hours while my wife was malling and I couldn't find one guitar that I liked.
1
1kidc
New member
While there are folks out here that can build their own guitar out of parts - I would venture to say that most players can't or won't spend the time to do it well or justify the investment of time and money. Just take a look at all the warmoth projects that end up on ebay. They usually end up reselling for about $350 if they are lucky. I've got a buddy who regularly snipes these to resell the parts. If the DIY approach works for you - go for it - but if it doesn't turn out to be your "guitar for life" you'll never get your money out of it.
My philosophy is buy a really high quality guitar used. Anderson, Suhr, Macinturf etc. I venture to say that you'll always be able to get $1000 out of it if you end up deciding that it doesn't suit you. And they regularly sell for about 1/2 price of new and seem to be holding value. I bought 2 Andersons this year and I love them.
Just my $0.02........
My philosophy is buy a really high quality guitar used. Anderson, Suhr, Macinturf etc. I venture to say that you'll always be able to get $1000 out of it if you end up deciding that it doesn't suit you. And they regularly sell for about 1/2 price of new and seem to be holding value. I bought 2 Andersons this year and I love them.
Just my $0.02........
S
Sanjanjoseph
New member
theres defidentally a line between cheep crap and a good guitar that'll last/entertain you for years and years....but for me ounce you hit 5, 6 hundred your just wasteing your money for a nice sunburst finish and an equally over expensive case....the highest ive gone is 420-ibanez artcore....i love it to death, and id never pic up a solid body again....fender and gibson and (even though this isnt listed) ibanez guitars exceding over 500.........all in all, do you really need a guitar that you'll be scared to touch?
just my opinion,
~sjj
just my opinion,
~sjj
ibanezrocks
New member
Try playing some nicer guitars before you say that, artcores are good for the price and the amount that you get for each dollar does drop as the price increases on guitars, but that doesnt mean that you're not getting a better sound out of them. If you like hollowbodies try playing a nice gibson hollowbody, like an es335 or es135, and you understand.Sanjanjoseph said:
L
Larry Gude
New member
As buying a guitar is obviously...
...a voluntary activity, I'm curious how people place value. Some people have said that 2-3 grand is rediculously overpriced.
So, in any event, here's how I look at 'expensive' purchases:
How often am I going to use 'it'?
Well, I've played my '86 Les Paul Custom at least a few hours every week since I bought it new for $800. Often, I play it sometimes maybe 1/2 hour to an hour average for day after day after day. Sometimes I won't touch it for a few days. Maybe a whole week here and there.
Countless times I've played it for 2-3 hours at a time for days on end. So, all in all, it's probably conservative to say I've played it something like 2 hours a week, every week for 19 years. So it's got something like 2,000 hours in my hands or 40 cents an hour and, obviously, costing less every single time I touch it. Hell, I get pleasure out of looking at the damn thing.
It is a superb guitar.
I enjoy my Strat. I have a decent accousitc I play about as much as the Paul. I've got some cheapie project guitars I play weekly and even a bass. These either will or won't be around next week, next year or longer.
I'll blow a couple hundred, maybe up to $500 on these type guitars every couple of years or so.
The Les Paul, however is for life and if you find a guitar you feel that way about (and I did the first week I had it) a couple grand might not really be all that much money.
I want another one, just to put EMG's in and they're running 2-3k these days but it's harder to justify because I do have the one. On the other hand, if I lost it tomorrow, I wouldn't hesitate replacing it.
So, if it's 'the' guitar for you maybe it's not so bad after all?
...a voluntary activity, I'm curious how people place value. Some people have said that 2-3 grand is rediculously overpriced.
So, in any event, here's how I look at 'expensive' purchases:
How often am I going to use 'it'?
Well, I've played my '86 Les Paul Custom at least a few hours every week since I bought it new for $800. Often, I play it sometimes maybe 1/2 hour to an hour average for day after day after day. Sometimes I won't touch it for a few days. Maybe a whole week here and there.
Countless times I've played it for 2-3 hours at a time for days on end. So, all in all, it's probably conservative to say I've played it something like 2 hours a week, every week for 19 years. So it's got something like 2,000 hours in my hands or 40 cents an hour and, obviously, costing less every single time I touch it. Hell, I get pleasure out of looking at the damn thing.
It is a superb guitar.
I enjoy my Strat. I have a decent accousitc I play about as much as the Paul. I've got some cheapie project guitars I play weekly and even a bass. These either will or won't be around next week, next year or longer.
I'll blow a couple hundred, maybe up to $500 on these type guitars every couple of years or so.
The Les Paul, however is for life and if you find a guitar you feel that way about (and I did the first week I had it) a couple grand might not really be all that much money.
I want another one, just to put EMG's in and they're running 2-3k these days but it's harder to justify because I do have the one. On the other hand, if I lost it tomorrow, I wouldn't hesitate replacing it.
So, if it's 'the' guitar for you maybe it's not so bad after all?
I
Imaduck
New member
Every time Light tries to defend that that's how much the construction of these guitars cost, my mind simply wanders to the hundreds of other brands that make same to better quality instraments at a quarter of the cost (the ones that Gibson hasn't sued, that is). My problem with Gibson is that they attack their competition with a legal vengence because they know they can't match up in a freely competative market. They know that when people start figuring out that other brands can make the same guitar with half the mark-up, Gibson will lose customers.
However, on the other side, I must agree with Light's arguement about resale value. Nowadays I don't buy a guitar that I know I couldn't resell for an equivalent or greater price than what I bought it for. Also, I make a fair bit of profit reselling guitars, which is basically taking an item away from somebody who only sees the instrament for it's technical qualities and selling it to people who are willing to pay insane amounts of money for rarity or name-brand value. Do I think it's stupid that people pay that much for these instraments? Yes, but I've made a pretty penny off of it.
Anyway, I guess what it boils down to is don't buy from these overpriced shit-brands unless you think it's worth it. I think the main problem is that the mainstream media and mainstream artists praise these companies left and right, especially when they're not footing the bill, and even more insulting is when newbies walk into my house, see my collection, and aren't shocked - and -awed because they don't recognize any of the names. Then go throw a shit SG in front of 'em and they wet themselves. People are silly.
----
Oh, an as a second note about the legal issue and Gibson, yes I know that Gibson is the brand that made a lot of these models popular, however we all know that the modern guitar industry is built on competition. How many hundreds of companies are making Strat copies right now? Yet Fender has no problem selling theirs. Sure it's perfectly legal what Gibson's doing, but it's cutting down on guitar player's options an it's the players that get hurt in the end.
However, on the other side, I must agree with Light's arguement about resale value. Nowadays I don't buy a guitar that I know I couldn't resell for an equivalent or greater price than what I bought it for. Also, I make a fair bit of profit reselling guitars, which is basically taking an item away from somebody who only sees the instrament for it's technical qualities and selling it to people who are willing to pay insane amounts of money for rarity or name-brand value. Do I think it's stupid that people pay that much for these instraments? Yes, but I've made a pretty penny off of it.
Anyway, I guess what it boils down to is don't buy from these overpriced shit-brands unless you think it's worth it. I think the main problem is that the mainstream media and mainstream artists praise these companies left and right, especially when they're not footing the bill, and even more insulting is when newbies walk into my house, see my collection, and aren't shocked - and -awed because they don't recognize any of the names. Then go throw a shit SG in front of 'em and they wet themselves. People are silly.
----
Oh, an as a second note about the legal issue and Gibson, yes I know that Gibson is the brand that made a lot of these models popular, however we all know that the modern guitar industry is built on competition. How many hundreds of companies are making Strat copies right now? Yet Fender has no problem selling theirs. Sure it's perfectly legal what Gibson's doing, but it's cutting down on guitar player's options an it's the players that get hurt in the end.
G
ggunn
Crystal Flavolian
Yikes! All of them!
Every time I go into a music store, I thank my lucky stars I bought my guitars in the 70's. I paid $350 for my early 70's vintage black/gold Les Paul custom and $600 for my '61 Strat.
Every time I go into a music store, I thank my lucky stars I bought my guitars in the 70's. I paid $350 for my early 70's vintage black/gold Les Paul custom and $600 for my '61 Strat.
Garry Sharp
Lost Cause
ggunn said:
And what would those prices equate to in today's money? Something between 5 and 10 times.
G
ggunn
Crystal Flavolian
Garry Sharp said:
Nah. That $600 was a hell of a lot easier for me to come up with then than $6000 (or even $3000) would be now.
timmerman
-------------------------
Ghosh what can I say about this?
Are Gibsons and Fenders expansive? Well yes but....................
Do you like a Gibson or Fender, and let us all be honest here? Well I do like them and I know a lot of you like them too!
Does the quality match the pice? Let me put it in other words: Could they produce the same guitars for less money? Yes they could, but we all know how econimcs work eh? And we are paying a lot for reputation, name and history of these brands. Same for a lot of other things in this world really.
If you like them and can afford it, just get one and enjoy and do not think too much about what else you could have done with that money................
Oh sure there is a lot of politics involved in all of this, Why are Fender and Gibson so popular? Why does almost anyone know these names? Where are the other brands who started out at the same time as these big names [bought up by Fender and Gibson?.....................!!] Oh well, we all know eh? so is this fair? Well, no..............but who said that life is fair, at as a lot of you have mentioned earlier: We all have a choice here eh? as noone is forcing you to buy Fender of Gibs.
Oh and it sure is fun to play something really cheap for a while, and then to go to some of the bigger boys
a bit like "You drive your Mini Austin during the morning and in the afternoon you get the BMW out of the shed for a little ride" Well both of these have their own appeal eh?
Cheers,
Eddie
Are Gibsons and Fenders expansive? Well yes but....................
Do you like a Gibson or Fender, and let us all be honest here? Well I do like them and I know a lot of you like them too!
Does the quality match the pice? Let me put it in other words: Could they produce the same guitars for less money? Yes they could, but we all know how econimcs work eh? And we are paying a lot for reputation, name and history of these brands. Same for a lot of other things in this world really.
If you like them and can afford it, just get one and enjoy and do not think too much about what else you could have done with that money................
Oh sure there is a lot of politics involved in all of this, Why are Fender and Gibson so popular? Why does almost anyone know these names? Where are the other brands who started out at the same time as these big names [bought up by Fender and Gibson?.....................!!] Oh well, we all know eh? so is this fair? Well, no..............but who said that life is fair, at as a lot of you have mentioned earlier: We all have a choice here eh? as noone is forcing you to buy Fender of Gibs.
Oh and it sure is fun to play something really cheap for a while, and then to go to some of the bigger boys
a bit like "You drive your Mini Austin during the morning and in the afternoon you get the BMW out of the shed for a little ride" Well both of these have their own appeal eh? Cheers,
Eddie
T
taintedeity
New member
I like the more expensive Gibson Models ie: Custom and Standard are really nice guitars but I dont know about 2-3K for one.
A strat for 1K, forget it! I have a mexican strat wasnt even worth the $500 I paid. Ill never buy another Fender. Theyre "classic" guitars but that doesnt mean theyre good.
A strat for 1K, forget it! I have a mexican strat wasnt even worth the $500 I paid. Ill never buy another Fender. Theyre "classic" guitars but that doesnt mean theyre good.
G
ggunn
Crystal Flavolian
taintedeity said:
OTOH, I have a '61 Strat that I wouldn't trade for all the Mexican Strats in the world. Just because there are some bad Strats out there doesn't mean they are all junk. I love my Les Paul, too, but equally and separately.
K
kq300325
New member
i have to go with fender from my own experience. i got a usa thinline telecaster for £700 and within a few weeks one of the pickups came loose and i had to take it back to the store to get the neck repaired as it came loose.
when you pay that much you dont expect shit like that to happen!!!
when you pay that much you dont expect shit like that to happen!!!
S
Shoeman
New member
I know, I fall into the "Mr Cheap" category. In the last year we've bought a Standard Strat, a Squier Tele, a Squier P-bass and an Artcore AG75. I already owned my old Schecter bodied Fender necked Dimarzio'd P-bass for 20 years. Twenty years ago and earlier I played with guys who had '70's and earlier Strats, Tele's, SG's, a 335 variant, a Rick bass (drool!), and I owned a Guild Bluesbird bass myself. And of course we had the cheap stuff too, like Sears Silvertones, a Hagstrom bass and other crap I can't even rembember the manufacturers of. Owned and sold a lot of (now) vintage Fender amps too.
My take on this whole thing is that the situation today is much like it was 20 and 30 or more years ago. Some "cheap" guitars (like the Ibanez Artcore) are great value, some like the Std Strats, are not as nice (but not complete crap either, they just need tweaking) as the name would suggest(the Squier Tele's frets are much nicer than the Std Strats, go figure), and the big dollar ones are usually damn nice. At least the ones I held in the store. I remember being a youth and seeing the walls of the music stores absolutely lined with real crap cheap imported junk guitars with 12 switches, 5 pickups, mondo knobs and pre-warped necks, some as low as $25 used. That stuff does not seem to exist much anymore. I've rambled, I know. I'm not a great musician, but I get by and have fun and I've been around long enough to see the industry evolve to quite a different state than it was when I first was bitten by the rock and roll bug. My take is yes, in general one does get what one pays for, but there are real values to be had in the lesser price categories nowadays, much more so than there where "back in the good old days".
My take on this whole thing is that the situation today is much like it was 20 and 30 or more years ago. Some "cheap" guitars (like the Ibanez Artcore) are great value, some like the Std Strats, are not as nice (but not complete crap either, they just need tweaking) as the name would suggest(the Squier Tele's frets are much nicer than the Std Strats, go figure), and the big dollar ones are usually damn nice. At least the ones I held in the store. I remember being a youth and seeing the walls of the music stores absolutely lined with real crap cheap imported junk guitars with 12 switches, 5 pickups, mondo knobs and pre-warped necks, some as low as $25 used. That stuff does not seem to exist much anymore. I've rambled, I know. I'm not a great musician, but I get by and have fun and I've been around long enough to see the industry evolve to quite a different state than it was when I first was bitten by the rock and roll bug. My take is yes, in general one does get what one pays for, but there are real values to be had in the lesser price categories nowadays, much more so than there where "back in the good old days".
B
Brandon Dubya
New member
I play a Epiphone Les Paul Standard with Gibson open coil pickups and it plays better than some low and high end Gibsons that I've played in my opinion.
N
NeoMagick
New member
mshilarious said:
I beg to differ. As a violinist, albeit a comparatively amateur one striving his way up, I can remark that the differences are extraordinary. Violins, with proper care, are most definitely like a fine wine. Those that are 200, 300 years old sound, and play from what i've been told, in a most remarkable way. I remember someone asking Joshua Bell when he let my school group interview him a number of years ago "How much did you pay for your violin?" (he plays a Strad, or did at the time anyway). He dropped 7 figures for it, and said it was worth every penny, mentioning the ease of playing he had with it.
I've played on shitty violins, and the equivalent is playing on a shitty guitar. Your fingers don't glide as well, you've got to put out just a bit more effort, it doesn't breeze well. It can be pretty awful. I found my current violin after I picked it up out of a few that I'd inherited because a string popped on my main one before a gig. I didn't have time to swap strings, so I just grabbed it and started using it. My fingers moved easier, it held itself in tune much better, i was able to play a bit more solidly on it. If there was that much difference in violins that may only have $300/$400 difference between them, I can only dream of playing with a violin that cost more than my house (or 3 or 4 times over), and with a bow thats at least as expensive as my car (which isn't saying much, admittedly).
Bows are also something else. People say "it's a strip of wood, how can there be a difference?". I'm happy to explain that one to the best of my abilities as well... but the differences there are extraordinary.
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Garry Sharp
Lost Cause
I bought a MIA Fender Jazz a few months ago, a stock new one. I also tried MIJ and MIM's in the various stores, and somehow the cumulative effect of the various differences added up to make me feel the American one was worth the extra money. Glad I did; apart from that classic sound, it is absurdly easy to play.
(Also the finish got badly scraped at a gig last night so it's starting to look like a Fender should
)
(Also the finish got badly scraped at a gig last night so it's starting to look like a Fender should
)
dragonworks
Banned
I have a 300.00 MIM strat, I like it almost as much as my Gibson 335, but then again I only paid 500 for the 335.