Most Overrated/Overpriced Electric Guitars

[flat1ine]

Mahogany is REALLY expensive and getting more so all the time. This is particularly true for wood of a sufficient quality to be used in a guitar.

Figured maple is really expensive too.

Light - I think you're making very many extremely valid points, and while I might not completely agree, I appreciate you taking the time to explain things as well as you do. I was under the impression that Gibson used large amounts of CNC technology - i figured if an acoustic builder like Martin does, then an electric maker like Gibson would CNC almost all it's parts.

The other point you made I was unaware of was that Gibson hand sprays on nitrocellulose. That's a bitch of a thing to do - I've dabbled with a spray gun - and you need at least 5 or more coats for a decent looking finish.

One thing you might be off slightly on is the cost of mahogany and maple - when i bought wood for my guitar, I got a slab of AA (almost AAA) mahogany that was about 6' x 4' x 10" for a little under $200, a cut of AAA birdseye maple 8" x 6" x 50" for about $100 for my neck - this was more than enough wood for two guitars.

I'm probably nitpicking here, or maybe I just got a fantastic deal. Regardless, I've been unimpressed with the Gibson's I've played, along with a lot of other high end guitars, maybe i'm just odd.

 

[jimistone]

I voted for fender. If I could choose two I also would have put Gibson, but I find that Fenders are more overpriced. The top of the line fenders aren't that good, the cheaper fenders are pretty good, if you replace the pickups they'll sound as good as a high end strat and upgrading the pickups couldnt cost more than $300.

So, you have made a counter point to your point. You can get a really good strat for $300. I think that makes fender a great value. Gibson is WAY overpriced IMO.

 

[jimistone]

But the pros too often don't have to pay. I mean the big boys, the equivalent of the soloists who are shelling out seven figures for a three hundred year old violin.

Unfortunately Stradivarius isn't still in business to sign up Itzhak Perlman to a lucrative endorsement deal

Honestly, I highly doubt there is real value in paying beyond, say, $30K for a violin. The rest is just questionable demand for an extremely scarce, dwindling supply of ancient instruments.

On the amateur side, you can get a plenty good violin or guitar, for $1-$2K. But for $2K, I'd expect a LOT better than the average Gibson--and I'm Gibson fan.

I think Charlie danials paid $150 for his violin...He is a pro.

 

[Frank Story]

A guitar is like a fine tool, if you make your living by playing it, you want the best, most reliable one you can find. Something that makes you feel good to play it and be seen with it, with tone that speaks to your soul. Having said that and based on feel and finish, $7500 for a modern day Byrdland or L5 seems over the top.

 

[Chip Evans]

First off I think the early poll results are very realistic and representative of these products current market prices and percieved value and quality. On the PRS front they make an excellent product but I am still trying to find the miniture "Holy Grail" that Smith hides in each one. On the Gibson front I believe they have expanded production without any resonable way of of insuring QC through out the manufacturing process. In addition, in our semi-free marketplace both these companies have the right to sell whatever they want at whatever price they want.

Light, I appreciate your comments and defence of the cost of building and crafting fine instuments and the reality of modern manufacturing. I will though "value" their work based on the final product, not their "hard work". This approach "under values" my intelligence and common sense.

 

[lpdeluxe]

Light is right. Everybody is spoiled.

There are 'way too damn many "quilted top" $300 gits that are made out of sawdust and glue, and 'way too damn many "guitarists" who buy with their eyes instead of their ears and settle for cheap crap.

Y'all should thank God every day you don't play a cello or any other serious instrument where you MUST have the tone.

In the meantime, if Gibson (or Fender) charges too much, don't buy one. I personally think they're doing great, given the fact that wooden instruments are rapidly becoming luxury items...and in a relatively few years will very likely become extinct.

 

[gvarko]

I own a Gibson...

And I have owned PRS in the past..

But I would have to say the guitar I most like to play cost me
< $700... It's my Schecter C1 Elite.. It is every bit a PRS without the fat price tag...

 

[ibanezrocks]

So, you have made a counter point to your point. You can get a really good strat for $300. I think that makes fender a great value. Gibson is WAY overpriced IMO.

what i was trying to say is that although the cheaper fenders are a pretty good value, it also shows how over priced the expensive fenders are when you could find an equally good guitar from the same company at half the price, it just doesnt make sense. at least with gibson you do see the quality increase with the price, making it the price difference understandable.

 

[Light]

... pieces of art in their own respect...

No, it is not a work of art. It is a tool. A paint brush. The art only happens when someone uses it to make music. Luthiers, myself included, are NOT artists. We are craftsman. All I am doing is making a very fancy sonic paint brush.

As to the rest, you are right that a Gibson is not a violin. But it also does not cost as much as a great violin. $2000 for a profesional instrument is not ridiculous. THAT is my point.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Garry Sharp]

I think the issue here, Light, was more about relative than absolute pricing. Some over priced because of their brand, some much cheaper for better build quality because of lack of it.

I must say though that guitars and basses are amazing value for money - look at what a decent one costs relative to an average monthly paycheck compared to twenty years ago.

I have a Korean built, swamp ash body G&L bass that even at UK prices is unbelievable for the money - even more so in the States (£1=$1 in the music world).

I have to disagree about the definition of a work of art - in fact some of my guitars my fiancee won't let me put away in their cases, they have to stay on stands in our living room because, to her, they are works of art. So there

 

[flat1ine]

No, it is not a work of art. It is a tool. A paint brush. The art only happens when someone uses it to make music. Luthiers, myself included, are NOT artists. We are craftsman. All I am doing is making a very fancy sonic paint brush.

Light, I would've thought that as a luthier, you would've thought that your guitars would be blurring the line between function and form; or instrument and art. If looks didn't matter, we'd be playing stuff that looked like Hohner G3Ts.

Granted I'm not a luthier, I haven't even finished my first guitar, so I am not on the same level as you, nor to I claim to be even remotely close. That said, It's my opinion that a well-crafted guitar is something more than a paintbrush. Every guitar may not be a work of art, naturally, but I think there are some instruments that are so beautifully crafted, so well designed and luxuriously appointed that they can't help be art.

On a completely unrelated topic, I'd like to see examples of your work, if you'd be willing.

Thanks,
Erik

 

[flat1ine]

I think the issue here, Light, was more about relative than absolute pricing. Some over priced because of their brand, some much cheaper for better build quality because of lack of it.

Exactly what I was trying for - Thanks!

 

[Hard2Hear]

None of those guitars listed are generally overpriced to me. If you're a good shopper you can get good examples of any of them for a good price. What is overpriced are some of the stupid "signature" models that both Gibson and Fender have tried (and succeeded) to get people to buy into. Like the $30,000 Jimmy Page Les Paul, or the $15,000 SRV #1 clone. They think they can just create an investment guitar and it be worth that much. I hope the buyers never can get back what they paid for them. There are certianly better authentic Strats and Les Pauls for a fraction of that price tag.

Warrior guitars, now they are overpriced. It's like they want you to join their cult by buying them. I don't think they're that good of a guitar in the first place. They remind me too much of a televangelist. "Don't make me yell, don't make me shout, just turn them pockets inside out."

For high dollar shock, I'd be inclined to say Jim Olsons acoustics are overpriced (Let's see Light jump on that) but I have played a cedar topped SJ and if I had the extra money it would be the first thing I would buy, even at around $10,000. So it's not always just the dollar amount, but what you get for it.

H2H

 

[Armistice]

If you ran a business, how much would you expect to invest on equipment etc. so that your business paid you a reasonable wage?

I'm not a professional musician, but I earn a reasonable living. I spent $4300 AUD on a PRS because that's what they cost over here. I also spent more than $3000 on a top of the line Australian acoustic because that's what they cost.

I'm glad I made both purchases, and I didn't consider either "expensive" - I'll have them both in 30 years time when I'm old and furry and each will have cost me about 30 - 40c a day over that period. Small price to pay for the quality stuff.

I have spent less on gear in my lifetime than I have on cars, and I don't drive expensive cars - I wish it was the other way around but I need to get around the place as well.

Guitars, even the PRSs and Gibsons, aren't expensive in the scheme of things. It's all about priorities. That's not to say that your personal favourite guitar has to be expensive. I have a Levinson Blade strat I wouldn't swap for any 'real' one I've ever played.

Get over it and merry Christmas to you all.

 

[spoonie g]

in response to spoonie g and lights' comments:

spoonie - i agree completely, and it is a demand issue - gibson can get away with charging $2,000 for an instrument that cost them maybe a few hundred to make and slapping the gibson name on it. i'm not saying gibson guitars are of poor quality, but rather that they can, and do, get away with outrageous prices.

light - without a doubt, do get what you pay for, no doubt; but that doesn't mean that a $2,000 guitar is worth the price - you can buy a gibson dobro for almost $2,000 or you can buy a better crafted, better sounding, Custom Liberty Copperhead with better workmanship, more attention to detail, a more personal and tailored buying experience for a shade over $300. i played a large, large selection of extremely expensive dobros at Matt Umanov Guitars in NYC, bought my dobro from Bill at Liberty, and can say that that the Liberty is just flat-out better.

For the record, I intended this poll and thread to be geared towards new, overpriced, mass produced, readily available guitars, not custom luthiered instruments (violins, guitars, whatever) handmade with the finest materials and craftsmanship - in my opinion, any instrument in that catergory is almost always worth the money.

Gibsons are not of poor quality, but they sure as hell aren't the best. PRS' blow them away any day of the week. Unfortunately for me, I am at home with a Gibson and not so much so with a PRS. I really wanted to like the PRS for it's glitz and exceptional quality, but alas, it wasnt in the cards. I don't bitch about it. It's how business works. If you have a hot item, you get to charge more for it by default. Les Paul really hooked them up with the Les Paul and Sg,

 

[guitar junkie]

here is what i think

ok i have looked at a bunch of guitars and i like to stay on top of whats coming out from the makers. now Gibson is riding on the fact that they have been making guitars that every body likes to play for a little while now.
i think that if i was going to buy one i would buy a used guitar made by them.
Fender is something that i am just about sick of and will switch to a Gretsch as soon as i can afford it.
PRS is pretty and far out there in design and i would say that i do not like the looks of them.
you do get what you pay for i happen to like good guitars and will use them when i can pay for them good guitars and fine guitars will have a price tag that will always be a little higher than a piece of junk made in China of some other place like that myself i have tasts for guitars about 20 years old that are in ok shape but just not old enough for people to collect them
i have a Gretsch acoustic that is a very nice guitar and it lists for $1600-$1800
now i got it used to a lot less than that and i also have a Guild D25 that i picked up for $250 so a fine guitar does not have to always cost an arm and a leg but you still have to pay more than $99 for it at the local music barn
now i did build my strat! it was a saga guitar kit and it cost me $130 with better tuners thrown in now it is not a high end strat but it is an ok guitar
and will work untill i get a Gretsch Jet. bottom line is "PLAY THE DAMN THING"

 

[Light]

I think the issue here, Light, was more about relative than absolute pricing. Some over priced because of their brand, some much cheaper for better build quality because of lack of it.

I must say though that guitars and basses are amazing value for money - look at what a decent one costs relative to an average monthly paycheck compared to twenty years ago.

I have a Korean built, swamp ash body G&L bass that even at UK prices is unbelievable for the money - even more so in the States (£1=$1 in the music world).

I have to disagree about the definition of a work of art - in fact some of my guitars my fiancee won't let me put away in their cases, they have to stay on stands in our living room because, to her, they are works of art. So there

But you are missing one critical issue. Gibson and Fender have a resale value NO other guitar has, excpet for a Martin. You will get more money back on one of those than you will on a Schecter or an Ibanez. That is part of what you are paying for, and it is part of the reason they can charge what they do.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Light, I would've thought that as a luthier, you would've thought that your guitars would be blurring the line between function and form; or instrument and art. If looks didn't matter, we'd be playing stuff that looked like Hohner G3Ts.

Granted I'm not a luthier, I haven't even finished my first guitar, so I am not on the same level as you, nor to I claim to be even remotely close. That said, It's my opinion that a well-crafted guitar is something more than a paintbrush. Every guitar may not be a work of art, naturally, but I think there are some instruments that are so beautifully crafted, so well designed and luxuriously appointed that they can't help be art.

On a completely unrelated topic, I'd like to see examples of your work, if you'd be willing.

Thanks,
Erik

Looks matter in any craft, but to think of a tool like a guitar as art is just ego. I know a lot of guys who think of what they do as art, and they are all assholes making stupid guitars. As soon as you start to think of the guitar as art, you start to think of it as its own reason for being. These guys do things which are really stupid, like Spanish heals for a steal string (thus insuring the guitar will be no better than a wall hanging in no more than 50 years, and maybe as soon as 20 years), or doing things which make the guitar impossible to play (I am not going into this, as all of the examples I can think of would give away the builders, and I do not want to insult anyone).

It is not art, but craft can be artistic. What we do needs to look good, because it is part of a guitar players stage persona, and also because (sad as this is to say), guitar players usually buy with their eyes. So, it matters that they look good, but it matters much more that they are functional. When guitar builders think of them as art, they lose sight of the function. That drives me fucking nuts.

Myself, I am a craftsman. And yes, it is more than a brush, but its purpose is much the same: a tool to allow an artist to make art.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[ibanezrocks]

in response to lights last post...

if there was a clapping hands emoticon, this would be the time for it. too much emphasis is put on the looks of a guitar by most players.

 

[Dani Pace]

If all those "name brand" guitars are so great, then why are there so many of them hanging around in shops collecting dust? No matter how good they are, if the price is too high and they don't sell then they are doing no good for anyone. Just my perspective on it.