Monitors vs Headphones?

[Re-tox_stl]

Hi all! So currently i am looking at purchasing some sort of device to listen to/mix/track music through (currently i am using my skull candy over ear headphones... and i know i can do better). For those of you who dont know me, i am very new to recording and dont really NEED a super expensive pair of monitors/headphones, so this is what i have roughly narrowed it down to.

Ion Audio Desk Rockers:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/ION-Desk-Rocker-USB-Studio-Monitor-Pair?sku=485293

Or, Some AKG K-44MKII headphones (sorry, the link is broken for some reason)

So please give me your thoughts/feelings/and suggestions that you think will suit my needs.

 

[miroslav]

Those are just glorified computer speakers....

It isn't a question of "expensive" (though your budget will ultimately dictate what you can get)...
...it's a question of how accurate do you need your monitors to be?

If you want to track and mix music so that it translates well on most other systems and so that you can get near-commercial quality mixes...you need more serious monitors, otherwise you will spend a lot of time trying to learn how to work with inferior monitors.
It's no impossible...but if you don't already have trained ears and experience for mixing...it will be difficult.

PS
Headphones are NOT good for mixing. You can use them to track, so you have isolation and can hear the cue mix.

 

[TyphoidHippo]

Hi there . I think your attitude that you don't need super high-end stuff is a good one. Nobody really needs super high-end anything. I've had several pairs of monitors, some of them really "nice", according to other people - and you don't want to buy into hype... a lot of the cost of a lot of expensive stuff is just that, I fear. If you charge more for audio stuff, more people will want it. Strange, and a bit foolish, but true.

That said - a 3" woofer just isn't going to cut it. You can actually get some pretty inexpensive monitors that you can learn to work with, though, and I'm sure you'll get some suggestions on which ones - I'm kind of out-of-the-loop lately. Also - mixing in headphones has just never worked for me. There's some science (and some pseudo-science) behind the problems with it, but I can't remember right now.

I do have some headphones, and sometimes I'll put them on during a mix to hear something specific from a different point-of-view, so to speak, so having them around is helpful, and not a bad idea at all. Then again, lots of people purposely keep tiny speakers around just like those ones in your link for that "different POV" reason, too.

 

[miroslav]

Hi there . I think your attitude that you don't need super high-end stuff is a good one. Nobody really needs super high-end anything. I've had several pairs of monitors, some of them really "nice", according to other people - and you don't want to buy into hype... a lot of the cost of a lot of expensive stuff is just that, I fear. If you charge more for audio stuff, more people will want it. Strange, and a bit foolish, but true.

You're on thin ice with this view.

Sure, there is some nice inexpensive audio gear...and some over-priced, over-hyped gear...
...but the bottom line for the majority of audio gear is that you get what you pay for.

IHMO and that of a lot folks who do audio where quality is the goal...
...you're not going to find studio monitors under $1000/pair that are wide-range, accurate and almost completely neutral. Sure, there are cheaper monitors that might sound "good"...etc...but 9-out-of-10 will not cover all of the above requirements.
And yeah...some guys CAN mix on cheaper stuff...but those are often people that know what they are doing and know how to work around the deficiencies of their cheaper monitors.
And it's not just monitors....
A high-end, expensive hand-built guitar amp is always going to be better than anything you find coming off an assembly line. But you can still get decent tones through cheaper amps...though once you play through the high-end stuff you'll quickly understand where the extra money went.
Likewise, a $100 mic will have a difficult time competing with some $1000 mic...but sure, you can still get some use out of the $100, it just won't be good for everything and may only work in some situations.

I know it's tough on new/young guys...trying to get into recording and putting together a decent rig, but no one should ever let their limited budget cloud their judgment and views to the point of denial.
Everyone has to start somewhere...often on the cheap...but I see too many new/young guys develop a very negative attitude towards more expensive audio gear mainly because their wallets are thin.


Trust me, guys who are real audio pros are NOT foolish about their money… …they don’t buy expensive gear just for “hype”…they buy it because usually it IS better.
I'm not saying everyone has to aspire to be a pro and have a pro studio...it's OK to do it cheap and just for fun.

 

[Schism]

If you are on a strict budget but want quality gear, ur best bet is buying used. You can get better equipment at your sane budget, just make sure it works before u buy it lol...think about it like this, if you buy brand new and you use it once, it's "used" anyways ;P

 

[leddy]

Hi all! So currently i am looking at purchasing some sort of device to listen to/mix/track music through (currently i am using my skull candy over ear headphones... and i know i can do better). For those of you who dont know me, i am very new to recording and dont really NEED a super expensive pair of monitors/headphones, so this is what i have roughly narrowed it down to.

Ion Audio Desk Rockers:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/ION-Desk-Rocker-USB-Studio-Monitor-Pair?sku=485293

Or, Some AKG K-44MKII headphones (sorry, the link is broken for some reason)

So please give me your thoughts/feelings/and suggestions that you think will suit my needs.

You need monitors. Headphones are great for some things - I would not mix without them, but you have to remember that over speakers there is crosstalk between the left and right channel (the two sources blend a little in the air on the way to your ears). You can have phase problems that exist over speakers that go away in headphones where the left and right channel are fed direct to each ear without crosstalk.

Whatever you mix on, listen to a lot of good, professional recordings on that system and A/B compare your mixes with the pro ones. Turn the pro mix down so it is not louder than yours. When you compare them this way, you can really start to listen for the things you need to fix.

 

[TyphoidHippo]

You're on thin ice with this view.

Man, I totally didn't expect anybody feeling that way

And yeah...some guys CAN mix on cheaper stuff...but those are often people that know what they are doing and know how to work around the deficiencies of their cheaper monitors.

This was exactly my point. I figured "You can actually get some pretty inexpensive monitors that you can learn to work with, though" would pretty much convey... exactly that point.

Trust me, guys who are real audio pros are NOT foolish about their money… …they don’t buy expensive gear just for “hype”…they buy it because usually it IS better.

If this was directed at me - ok.

(P.S. I know ).

 

[dintymoore]

I've seen used Sony speakers for $10 a pair at Goodwill that would be a much better choice than a set of headphones or those cheap speakers you posted a link to xRe-tox_stl. I'd just check around and get a set of good brand home stereo speakers and use them until you outgrow them. You don't need to spend over $30 at this point.

I got a set of Infinity speakers for $20 at Salvation Army that are made in the USA and cost around $400 a pr in the 70's. I would have no problem mixing on them.

Forget headphones, you need speakers. Get in your car and go to Salvation Army with $20. Remember, heavy generally = sounds good.

 

[miroslav]

This was exactly my point. I figured "You can actually get some pretty inexpensive monitors that you can learn to work with, though" would pretty much convey... exactly that point. .

I think most guys that have been through the trial-n-error learning and buying process (including me)...and that have some experience working with a variety of monitors in more than one recording environment...
...would agree that *learning how to mix* on quality monitors is much easier and gets you there quicker than spending a lot of time *learning what is wrong* with low quality monitors.
And that also trickles down to a lot of other audio gear.

So...it depends which learning process one prefers to spend time (and money) on.

Good gear isn't just *expensive* and nothing more. It often sounds better, is easier to work with ('cuz you can get what you want without fighting the gear), lasts longer, resells higher or is kept as a longterm investment...
...and all of that usually yields more fun and better results in the end.

But as always...budget dictates how deep one can get into *good* gear.

 

[TyphoidHippo]

I think most guys that [rock]...would agree that *learning how to mix* on quality monitors is much easier and gets you there quicker than spending a lot of time *learning what is wrong* with low quality monitors.

The tradeoff between the one-time investment in your monitors and the long-term time investment in learning how to use them is a really good point... I usually mention that

I agree with the rest, too. Good stuff.

 

[Supercreep]

Welcome to HR.

The Behringer Truth series powered monitors are decent and inexpensive.

I recommend that you don't mix with headphones.

 

[Lt. Bob]

It's no impossible...but if you don't already have trained ears and experience for mixing...it will be difficult.

^^^^^ this ^^^^^^

And actually you can mix with 'phones BUT, they absolutely require that you have a very good headphone system which is gonna cost hundreds more than a fairly decent set of monitors. I have about 750 in just my headphone rig and that's low-end to have a first rate headphone set-up.

So monitors are the way to go and there are many to choose from.
As TH said, 3" woofers ain't gonna do it.
There have been some good suggestions here on cheap monitors to start with. I'd check them out and get what you can afford.
It'll definitely be better than what you're using now.

 

[leddy]

Perhaps if all you are doing is pan-potting single-mic'd mono sources to create stereo, headphones might be ok. If you are recording anything in stereo, I'd want monitors.

 

[kcearl]

Buy a cheap set of high end speakers and an amp from a pawn shop....tracking and doing some automation on phones is perfectly acceptable but mixing is difficult...Ive been doing it for three months now whilst my gear is in storage and ive had some decent results when translated to mp3 players and small desk speakers...but damn if it wasnt such a hard long process of going back and forth compared to listening through near fields...

 

[Re-tox_stl]

So would these be something worth looking at? (when they come out at least)
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-TRUTH-B2031A-Active-Monitor-Single?sku=485796

 

[TyphoidHippo]

So would these be something worth looking at? (when they come out at least)
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-TRUTH-B2031A-Active-Monitor-Single?sku=485796

Wow - I'll reserve judgement until I check them out...but holy crap that's cheap. Of course they're worth looking at - you never know...

From the description:

After final assembly, each B2031A spends up to a half hour with a Calibration Engineer

I wonder what qualifies one to be a "Calibration Engineer"

 

[Armistice]

When I bought Behringer Truth monitors they cost me $600 (Aussie) - so they're really cheap on that link.

Good at that price... I've mixed an album on them.

 

[Seidy]

i have used also these truths for about 2-3 years and i'm satisfied so far(well... im saving some money for KRK's or Yamaha's at the moment) but comparing to home stereo they are pure gold

 

[floorpuncher]

I'm going to be "that guy" for a minute...

For a small, private, "spare room" studio you should look into the Samson MediaOne monitors. I've got a pair of 3As and 4As that I use and I think they sound great. They are not KRK quality by any stretch of the imagination but they work for what I use them for. I picked up both sets for $250 ($100 for the 3As and $150 for the 4As) at Sam Ash and I'm happy with them. I'm actually contemplating buying a third set of the 5As. I record death metal mostly and they work well for that purpose.

As far as mixing using headphones, I would shy away from it being your primary source of mixing. Although I have a small collection of headphones that I use to test a mix to get a feel for how it will sound with regular headphones. For example, I have a pair of Skullcandy Skullcrushers that I use, a pair of Skullcandy GIs, a pair of Zune headphones, iPod headphones, JVC Marshamallows, a pair of Philips in ear, and my buddy has got the Dr Dre Beats on ear headphones that I use when I can. Again, I use these as references not to mix per se.

 

[Lt. Bob]

for mixing in cans you need something like Sennheiser 650's and a headphone amp like something from Headroom. You'd be surprised how much something like that can sound like monitors. But that's a bunch of money ...... WAY more than getting some modest monitors.