Monitors...may want to try this

[Blue Bear Sound]

I figure if I can make it sound at least half ass on both systems, then I pretty much got all the bases covered.....

I seriously doubt it.... you simply can't hear enough of what's going on to make critical decisions.

I have no idea why this is such a difficult concept for some people.

It's like claiming there's no such thing as germs because you couldn't seem them with a magnifying glass. USe the right tools for the job.

For critical listening (and that's EXACTLY the kind of listening you're doing when tracking or mixing), you need to hear what's going down. Period. There's no way around this.

 

[barefoot]

I have no idea why this is such a difficult concept for some people.

But wait a minute Bruce.... I think they make some truly enlightening points. I think I'm starting to understand.

See, this whole time I've been working under a completely wrong assumption. I assumed, since loudspeakers have such horrible performance compared to every other component in a recording or playback system, that this is the area where my efforts could make the biggest impact. Hell, even a monitor like the Mackie HR824, which many here consider "hi-end", produces upwards of 5% total distortion at normal operating levels..... not to mention all the dynamic compression, frequency dependent group delay, etc,...... hence, I arrived at this misguided belief that designing better loudspeakers would help people produce better recordings.

But now I've been shown the light! You see, It doesn't matter what we listen through! Glue a needle to a sheet of tin foil and shove it in a piece of coal... instant loudspeaker! This is great! Think of the money we'll save!

But wait just one more minute!..... If we don't really need to here much of what we're recording..... then maybe... just maybe..... most of what we're recording actually doesn’t matter either!

Woohooo! I can stop saving my pennies for fancy gear, because it just doesn't matter! Neve and Manley, I don't need you! Behringer and ART here I come!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

I heard Alcan tin foil is now the best.... it's the secret ingredient in Paradigms!!!

 

[barefoot]

Alcan?!!!! I used to work for Alcoa. Them's fightin' words!

But, you're right.... Paradigms really are the best.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Paradigms really are the best.

Yeah they use the best coal too!!!

 

[CoolCat]

yes...!!

...tin foil speakers??

you know what they say, if you make it sound good on that...you guys crack me up...this a fhkn comedy sketch...

Have you mentioned the idea to Behringer? Ultra Pro Thin Studio Pro Ultra Monitors! (tin foil & coal)...i got fhkn tears in my eyes..

 

[barefoot]

Yeah they use the best coal too!!!

Oh, so now I guess you're trying to say Canada has the best coal too?!

Well, I grew up in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, my friend. I spent my entire childhood sucking in sulfur dioxide belching from the stacks of some of the finest Bessemer furnaces on this planet.... fueled by Grade A hooch straight from the bowels of Appalachian foothills. So, don't you tell me about coal! I know about coal!!!!! ......

 

[CoolCat]

nEar-er than near-field?

But now I've been shown the light! You see, It doesn't matter what we listen through! Glue a needle to a sheet of tin foil and shove it in a piece of coal... instant loudspeaker! This is great! Think of the money we'll save!

But wait just one more minute!..... If we don't really need to here much of what we're recording..... then maybe... just maybe..... most of what we're recording actually doesn’t matter either!

yes, i agree and am happy for you seeing the light.
can't be much worse than the plastic computer speakers everyone seems to listen thru these days.

but, Yes, simplicity...
does one really need to overdub the distorted guitar track 12 times, or use 16 channels for one drum set and $10,000 speakers to get a good mix?

leads back to the original thread...small speakers.
Auratones and Optimus 7's, Bose cubes,...etc...

OPTIMUS 7's new test data:last mix was good, and at minimum noticed a sound change form my trebbly Studio Reference monitors (maybe I need toilet paper taped to the tweeter like the NS10's).
I would like to play the mix thru a Hi-END unit, just for measure.
Somebody mentioned that. interesting.

Something new: May want to try this too?
To retrieve a quazi-axis-Rsq2 of Q-2(3X-7A+C) therom of sound equlaing a "NEARER than everyone elses" NEAR-FIELD STUDIO MONITOR PROFFESIONAL REFERENCE SET UP, yet bigger than headphone speakers, by a factor of 2" from the lower sub frequency devices.
Last night I affixed my Optimus 7's to my head.

I recommend everyone to try this. I found tape doesn't hold probably due to the weight of the speaker magnets and all steel cabinet of the 7's, what you can use is an extra large pair of mens briefs placed over your head, then place the speakers in the underwear, one speaker each ear allowing the elastic to hold the speakers in place.
If the speakers droop too much try a smaller pair of underwear until the speakers remain parrellel to your ears, this is critical.

Fruit of the Loom is 100% cotton which is said to be better sound absorption.


Does a $1800 US Fender Stratocaster really sound that much better than a $199 Squire Strat?

 

[chessrock]

Re: nEar-er than near-field?

Does a $1800 US Fender Stratocaster really sound that much better than a $199 Squire Strat?

Uh . . . hmmm . . . let me think about this one . . . uh . . .

yea.

 

[MrStitch]

Well... you could just buy the $199 strat and put in $500 pickups to get the same sound. Still save $1100. =)

 

[malcolm123]

Learn your environment and Mix.

Play it back in as many places possible.

What is it that your not hearing ?
What is it that your hearing too much of ?

Go back to your Lab and remix.

Then do the same process again until you figure your environment out.

Just learn your environment's shortcomings then apply to taste.



Malcolm

 

[barefoot]

What is it that your not hearing ?

If you're using cheap monitors, I guess you'll never really know. But isn't it said that ignorance is bliss?

Thomas

http://barefootsound.com

 

[malcolm123]

If you're using cheap monitors, I guess you'll never really know. But isn't it said that ignorance is bliss?

Thomas

http://barefootsound.com

Agreed !

 

[MrStitch]

Barefoot....

I checked out your link there....

Kind of a bias'd oppinion, don't ya think =)

 

[CoolCat]

thats the problem...no bliss

no bliss....
knowing it doesn't sound right and only having access to a set of trebly Studio Reference Monitors with toilet paper taped over the tweeter.. I read that..is that fhkd up or what?whooaa.....why not put the toilet paper in your ears? hmm
and my 7's.

yeah, maybe i haven't paid my mixing engineer dues yet? this is cool and is a free challenge...panning, location...
expierience and expertise..and learning your room and speakers...
i can dig that...sht...

and of course "decent" equipment helps to a point,
but i'll never forget trying to sell my Jap Strat and this young sales kid in fhkn GC played it like VanHalengenius and was just screaming, fhkn beautifullyamazing...then the kid calmly, handed it back to me, like nothing had happened and said..."cool guitar dude...." he might have said "cool guitar Dad"...but anyway he didn't want to buy it.
you can't shop and bag that kinda talent...damnthe torpedoes.

Malcom, how you could read this thread and actually remain in tact on the subject of mixing is pure brilliance! thanks...

What is it your not hearing? consistent playbacks from unit to unit.

What is it your hearing too much? I have to buy expensive equipment to make a good universal mix.

serioously, the bass seems to start sounding like ASS first.

 

[CoolCat]

KillATone

so Barefoot you been sandbagging...
i just got off your webpages...selling Killatone?
small speakers from the barefoot?
but i thought small speakers were evil.
i didn't see the Coalatones..hee

 

[crawdad]

Re: nEar-er than near-field?

Something new: May want to try this too?
To retrieve a quazi-axis-Rsq2 of Q-2(3X-7A+C) therom of sound equlaing a "NEARER than everyone elses" NEAR-FIELD STUDIO MONITOR PROFFESIONAL REFERENCE SET UP, yet bigger than headphone speakers, by a factor of 2" from the lower sub frequency devices.
Last night I affixed my Optimus 7's to my head.

I recommend everyone to try this. I found tape doesn't hold probably due to the weight of the speaker magnets and all steel cabinet of the 7's, what you can use is an extra large pair of mens briefs placed over your head, then place the speakers in the underwear, one speaker each ear allowing the elastic to hold the speakers in place.
If the speakers droop too much try a smaller pair of underwear until the speakers remain parrellel to your ears, this is critical.

Fruit of the Loom is 100% cotton which is said to be better sound absorption.

I thought all the pro engineers at the major studios mixed with this setup, except that the real in the know guys used women's panties--less frequency blocking and prettier colors.

 

[barefoot]

MrStitch,

Well, yes. I definitely am biased. I build and sell studio monitors. It's far from being a secret on this board. I also write and produce my own music, so I have a vested interest from that side as well. My bias, however, came first. It was the very reason why I got into loudspeakers in the first place. Around the time I was an undergrad I learned how completely dreadful their performance is compared to literally every other type of audio component. So, I decided this is the area I want to work in. (plus I'm physicist and speakers have the whole acousto-electro-mechanical thing going... yada, yada).

Coolcat,

No, I haven't been sandbagging. Do a search on this board for "Killatone" and you'll find that I've announced it as a DIY project. I've also been very clear that the Killatone is only useful as a secondary reference. There is a place for this type of thing. For example, there are a lot of audio productions done for specific low bandwidth applications such as children's toys, clock radios, etc. A small standard reference monitor like the Killatone would be very useful in these cases.

Honestly, however, I find the Killatone useful on rare occasions. It's not something I would use often. I designed it primarily as a favor to one of the board members, and as an easy introductory DIY project for first time builders.

Thomas

http://barefootsound.com

 

[alien]

I use a switchbox for monitors.

I use the following:

A set of pro monitors
A set of Optimus bookshelf speakers
A set of plastic "I wanna be a boom box" speakers
My home strereo (uses Kenwood XL-999's - remember those? )
A set of cheap walkman-style headphones
A set of AKG-K240DF phones
A set of regular Sony phones

I use no EQ and go for the best balance among these.

Then I burn it to a CD and listen to it in at least three vehicles and two other boombox-style stereos.

I was told by an engineer who has been in the biz a long time that I might as well mixdown for stereo speakers and not monitors. I use the monitors to set a reference. Past that I mix for speakers that are generlly ported for mega bass response so I can set the low end so it's not overpowering on those systems, yet not subdued. It hasn't proven wrong yet. I'm pretty pleased with how it's coming out

 

[CoolCat]

questions..

It was the very reason why I got into loudspeakers in the first place. Around the time I was an undergrad I learned how completely dreadful their performance is compared to literally every other type of audio component. So, I decided this is the area I want to work in. (plus I'm physicist and speakers have the whole acousto-electro-mechanical thing going... yada, yada).

Thomas

http://barefootsound.com

interesting, your into the speaker performance quality physics endofthings? and yes, i'm newbie & don't know anyone's credibility other than a few greatheads who recommended some greta mid-range gear that really up'd my tracks..

my perception is that you have an above average hi-fi audiophile type system and enjoy pristine recordings on sonically way-above averge speakers....

so my loaded question:
If you could only choose ONE SET of SPEAKERS........
what type of speaker/monitor would you recommend to an average homerecording head, recording in a typical drywall'd room 8x10 room, using beginner homerecording gear, you know multitrack, sm58, guitar amp simpoulators, with headcans and a tabel to work from then? canyou dig it.

Monty Hall says you have 3 doors to choose from or you can reach in and grab whatever's in his pocket?

1) modern day subwoofer + satellite monitors?
2) Standard2-way/3-way NS10, Alesis,Ram, Mackie,KRK,Yorkville, GC type?
3) Killatone +, Auratone/Optimus7's, small speaker theory type?
Pocket) Polk, Paradigm flat response home stereo type speakers?

<<<<SOFTWARE INTERRUPTION>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<<this thread is now being monitored by the US Govt. to help Congress determine if "talking about", "reeffering to", and or "discussions related to" homerecording may be deemed illegal and therefore available for the there into to be sued therefrom with or without, and in discrimenetly of ALL or ANY panties being worn on the head during mixing which has been approved by the RIAA and Sony and accepted by the Professional Sound Mixing Industry Engineers Association per CRAWDAD.>>>