Monitor question...

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Guvnor513

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Hi, all... I am new here, so hello to you all. I've been recording --rather passively-- for a while now... I've just done a mix that sounds great on my system: maybe needs a tweak or two here or there but, it's clear anyway... The problem (you probably know where I'm going with this already) is when I do a mixdown to CD and play it on a consumer stereo, it sounds like it's got a blanket over the speakers.

Now I finally have a room that has been treated and I think it sounds fairly good in here. My monitors, however, are little Roland DS-30A's... with 5 inch speakers. Are these speakers just "missing" that bass response causing the blanket effect?

Next, do I remedy this with a subwoofer or would it be more advantageous to just move up to a bigger, say a Mackie MR8, monitor?

Oh, and by the by: I'm doing rock music versus Hip Hop or Dance. So I don't need SUPER heavy duty bass, just an accurate reporduction of what's on the track...

Any help would be greatly appreciated...
 
The frequency response of your monitors will show up inversely in your mixes. If they are lacking in bass then you will mix with too much bass. Either adding a subwoofer or getting bigger monitors should help. Setting up a sub isn't quite as straightforward as it might seem, so the best option may be to get bigger and better monitors.

The room and the placement of the speakers and listening position in it is just as important as the speakers themselves. Treatment is key. Killing LF standing waves will help you mix more accurately.
 
I think I've finally got a room lined out as far as the treatment, etc. I'm really thinking I've just outgrown these monitors. Yeah, I figured the subwoofer thing and dealing with crossover, etc, etc.. would just be a hassle. Any experience with those Mackie MR8's?
 
I wouldn't recommend the MR series. Try KRK rockits. Or Yamaha hs80s.
 
What do you like about the KRK's vs. the MR's? I've been a little confused by the line on the MkII MR8's about the change in the voicing. Wouldn't you want a studio monitor to be as flat as possible?
 
I've used both. To me the MR8's just sounded really messy. Especially when I played metal songs. I actually WASN'T able to hear things i could on other monitors. I don't know how to describe it. They just weren't right for me is all i could say. You definitely should go to a guitar center or some other store and test out monitors. It could be that the MR series IS right for you.
 
Guvnor513 said:
I think I've finally got a room lined out as far as the treatment, etc.
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Most times when I hear that, I later find that the walls are covered in foam and carpeting or something (which takes care of about 5% of your problematic frequencies).

No doubt, something more along the lines of a full-range system is going to be the best bet (again, if the room is treated properly - otherwise, it's not really going to help anyway).
 
and let me point out that usually when someone says their mix sounds like a blanket over the speakers, that is gonna be something to do with the highs and upper mids. A subwoofer or increased bass in the the monitors isn't going to address that at all.
 
Hey, guys... thank you for all the opinions. After a lot of research, I've decided to give those Mackie's a whirl. I can get them for $200 a pop and I've read good things on the net.

Also, I MAY have spoken prematurely about the 'treatment' of the room. Let's say it's certainly better than it's ever been. I'm currently working in a smallish room. I have a attached 2' x 4' panels at regular intervals ('cept over the closet door) on the walls and a couple from the ceiling. I also installed corner bass traps (I think they're called) in the corners. This room had a nasty little slap back to begin with: it's sheet rock and hardwoods. Also through a large area rug down to absorb the stuff coming off the floor. I am hoping my OTHER work desk behind the listening/mix position is doing a little something for diffusion. I'm sure it's not perfect and I'd welcome any advice whatsoever on quick and easy ways to make it better...

Lt. Bob: please tell me more... This experience has taught me a lot about monitors. I picked the monitor I have now based on price and their ability to integrate with a VS-880 (bought it when they first came out-- I should be much better at this by now). Since I've switched over to Cubase, I've never been able to figure out why I can't hear the bass drum in a mix..
 
Guvnor513 said:
Lt. Bob: please tell me more... This experience has taught me a lot about monitors. I picked the monitor I have now based on price and their ability to integrate with a VS-880 (bought it when they first came out-- I should be much better at this by now). Since I've switched over to Cubase, I've never been able to figure out why I can't hear the bass drum in a mix..
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well, it may simply be that you're using the terminology in an unusual way.
As I said above, usually when someone uses that 'blanket over the speakers' comment .... they usually are saying it sounds muffled or lacking in detail which is what it would sound like if you actually threw a blanket over the speakers because the blanket would block the highs and upper mids from being heard as well as they should be.
But a blanket would have little to no effect on the bass getting thru. So if the only problem you're having is a lack of bass ...... and if the highs and details are coming thru fine ...... then most of us would simply say we have a lack of bass or low-end.
So it may be that you simply said it in a way that made sense to you but isn't how we usually describe your problem.

OTOH, if you're missing detail and highs (sometimes you'll see the term 'sparkle') ..... then i'st not simply a matter of needing a bigger woofer because that won't really address much in the high-end.
In either case, the Mackies should be a considerable step up all the way around so they're gonna make changes to the entire spectrum. Let us know how you like 'em.
 
Yeah, I think I didn't describe what's going on well enough. On my monitors, my mix sounds great -- well, maybe not great, but good anyway: plenty of punch, clarity... Then when I do mix down to CD, there my trouble begins... The sound is overwhelmed by low frequencies -- there's the blanket over the speaker problem. I'm asking myself, where did all this bass come from? I suppose the proper term is the mix isn't translating -- which can be from a variety of OTHER things, monitors being just one. But I felt like I wasn't getting an accurate picture of what EXACTLY was coming out of my DAW...

Thank you guys for the advice; I'm really hoping the Mackie's work out. I was ultimately torn between them and the Yamaha HS80M's... I don't have access to a super store here to try stuff out so I have to rely on forums and reviews. From what I read in Sound on Sound's review, the Yamaha's accentuate a certain spectrum of mid-frequencies. In another Sound on Sound review, the Mackie's were described as relatively flat... but we'll see... Thanks again...
 
yeah, that sounds like a lack of bass in your current system so you're mixing the bass too hot to compensate however, one question. You are talking about playing those CD's in other systems right?
Because if the CDs you burn sound that way thru the same monitors that sounded fine as you were mixing ..... then that'll be a different issue. But if you're saying that playing the CDs in other systems sounds boomy then lack of bass in your monitors is the most likely culprit.
If, OTOH, the CDs sound bassier than you mixed them thru the same monitors you mixed them on ...... then that's a different problem because the CDs should sound the same thru your monitors as it did while you were mixing.
 
I have a attached 2' x 4' panels at regular intervals ('cept over the closet door) on the walls and a couple from the ceiling. I also installed corner bass traps (I think they're called) in the corners.
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2x4 panels of what? Foam? That will make your low end issues even worse. If foam - and the "bass traps" in the corner are those [which will be unnamed] foam corner things (that also don't go down nearly low enough to be considered 'bass traps'), those aren't helping much either.

I'd go into one of my typical acoustic treatment / positioning rants, but I ended up blogging about it so I wouldn't have to anymore... :-)

Basic Room Setup for Dummies | Articles | MASSIVE Mastering
 
Lt. Bob: Yes, that's exactly what's happening...

Massive: Sorry-- wow-- I'm really having trouble expressing myself over the last couple of days... I have Auralex foam and bass traps. I used their free service where they provide recommendations of what will work in your room. And yeah, the traps are just in the top corners of the room. But I had trouble hearing the bass drum in another room (with no treatment) on this same setup... I THINK the monitors will go a long way in correcting this (I hope anyway).
 
The monitors will only ever be as accurate and consistent as the room they're in allows them to be (Rule #2 of Audio).

Foam makes a nice "touch up" for a room that's already reasonably balanced. It makes low end issues (which are 90% of any room's problems) 100% of your room's problems.

Nothing against Auralex by any means - Some confuse me as an Auralex 'basher' and I'm most definitely not. Auralex makes an excellent product at an almost unfathomably cheap price. But it's still worthless for low end issues. ALWAYS fix the low end first - and usually most of what's left will take care of itself. If the point (in a well-balanced room) is to "remove the ambience" then foam is fantastic (that's what it's good at). If it's to actually make a room reasonably accurate, it comes up short (really, really short).
 
Guvnor513 said:
Yeah, I think I didn't describe what's going on well enough. On my monitors, my mix sounds great -- well, maybe not great, but good anyway: plenty of punch, clarity... Then when I do mix down to CD, there my trouble begins... The sound is overwhelmed by low frequencies -- there's the blanket over the speaker problem. I'm asking myself, where did all this bass come from? I suppose the proper term is the mix isn't translating -- which can be from a variety of OTHER things, monitors being just one. But I felt like I wasn't getting an accurate picture of what EXACTLY was coming out of my DAW...
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Came in late with a quick glance-- Making a CD doesn't change the mix. Has anyone asked if you are listening to this 'altered sounding cd wav on the exactly same playback path as the ok sounding mix?
 
mixsit said:
Came in late with a quick glance-- Making a CD doesn't change the mix. Has anyone asked if you are listening to this 'altered sounding cd wav on the exactly same playback path as the ok sounding mix?[/QU

The problem is on 'other' consumer systems...
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