Monitor Modeling???

[Murdersgalore]

Alright Over Dose I gotta call bullshit. You come here all arrogant claiming that you do this shit for a living and yet advise people to mix on headphones if the room isn't treated? Sure, for critical listening for reverb tails or stereo imbalances they help but ANY headphone, regardless of how much you paid for them, is bad for mixing. Headphones hide transients because they don't actually move any air. That's the absolute worst advice I have ever heard. And then you talk down to everyone by referring to us as your class!!?? I don't think I'll be attending your class professor.

Also, all monitors are colored. It is impossible with modern speaker technology to get a monitor truly flat. Even your $700 shit. I have a pair of rockits and to suggest that the bottom end is hyped tells me you have never actually heard a pair. If anything they could use more low end. You come off like a gear snob but you fail because even in the $700 dollar range you aren't gonna get anything close to flat. Especially with those yamaha hs80's. HA!

 

[RAMI]

I'm not following the whole argument, because I don't know KRK's or the other brands people are arguing about. But I don't think anyone can argue with this part of what he said:

room treatments (a lot of it)

 

[miroslav]

I'm not following the whole argument...

Good move!

The OP's thread is about a device that simulates various monitors when you are wearing headphones...but no one is discussing that...instead it's about who has better/more expensive monitors!

Hey guys...even those $700 monitors are not going to really measure up.
The $1200 Mackie HR824 monitors are IMO, the absolute minimum if you are talking serious monitors!
(That should stir up the pot)

And yes...if the room sucks...the monitors can't fix it.

 

[kidkage]

i should point out that i wasnt planning on buying that thing, I just thought it would be interesting to post the link and get thoughts.
i was hoping for some words from dave but he's still m.i.a

 

[Over Dose]

Doesn't the whole room treatment thing come into play when you are listening at a volume where the room's natural reverberation takes over? Is'nt mixing 101 tell you that your head placement in the "near field" sweetspot is parmount to mixiing? It's nice to turn up the monitors and jam your mix, but in reality, for the sake of sonic exhaustion on the eardrum, isn't it better to listen at a low volume anyway. What I'm saying/questioning is....if the room is fairly dead and you are listening at low volumes in the correct sweetspot, isn't that really the best way to utilize the "low dollar" monitors/room setup? just asking.

Yes, listen at low volumes. Conversation level (to avoid ear fatigue and damage), but even at the volume in an untreated room the low-end is still f***ed up. Room treatment isn't just for the reverberation and flutter echo. It's for the low-end too. My room is +/- 4 except for a little node around 9khz which is +6 (and that's far more accurate than most studios I've been in. The "Sweet spot" is you being in a position which makes an equilateral triangle and your room being symmetrical.

 

[Over Dose]

Alright Over Dose I gotta call bullshit. You come here all arrogant claiming that you do this shit for a living and yet advise people to mix on headphones if the room isn't treated? Sure, for critical listening for reverb tails or stereo imbalances they help but ANY headphone, regardless of how much you paid for them, is bad for mixing. Headphones hide transients because they don't actually move any air. That's the absolute worst advice I have ever heard. And then you talk down to everyone by referring to us as your class!!?? I don't think I'll be attending your class professor.
That's my advise and I'm going to stick to it. The room has THE most important roll when it comes to mixing. There are a few big time engineers that mix on cans. Your statement is just an opinion, and an ignorant one at that. You are going to lose transients on headphones, but mixing in a bad room is like a blind man trying to play darts and hit the bulls eye. Most of you guys have computers and some cracked version of a daw with some consumer grade monitors, so take my advice or not, you'll learn sooner or later.

Also, all monitors are colored. It is impossible with modern speaker technology to get a monitor truly flat. Even your $700 shit. I have a pair of rockits and to suggest that the bottom end is hyped tells me you have never actually heard a pair. If anything they could use more low end. You come off like a gear snob but you fail because even in the $700 dollar range you aren't gonna get anything close to flat. Especially with those yamaha hs80's. HA!

Monitors are more flat than others. The HS80's are pretty flat monitors, though they're a bit aggressive (but expose the problems in the mids). I had Ns10's, but I never liked them much. I also have event 20/20's which I still have, and traded my adams a8x's for a used TLM 49. I am a gear head, and you would be surprised on how much better the Hs80's sound over some of the more expensive monitors.

 

[mixsit]

.. My room is +/- 4 except for a little node around 9khz which is +6 ..

A typo'?.. or way up there that would almost have to be the monitors right?
..Finally a place for corrective house eq.


http://www.headphone.com/learning-c...raphType=0&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones
My comment earlier is that if they are serious (actually did some work and applied it here) it'd be fun to see comparatively how they 'revoice' to the various speakers. ..especially in light of the (massive!) variables that are head phones. (Maybe they do that ..too?

 

[Murdersgalore]

That's my advise and I'm going to stick to it. The room has THE most important roll when it comes to mixing.

Noone ever said otherwise.

There are a few big time engineers that mix on cans.

Name some. Did they let you in on the sessions?

Your statement is just an opinion, and an ignorant one at that.

Yeah, my opinion and the majority. There are plenty of guys here who are professionals.

You are going to lose transients on headphones,

Which is where the punch and the life of music is.

but mixing in a bad room is like a blind man trying to play darts and hit the bulls eye.

Once again noone denied that room treatment isn't important, but monitors are.

Most of you guys have computers and some cracked version of a daw with some consumer grade monitors,

Now you are just being an arrogant prick again. Being that you have only been here for a matter of days I don't think you know shit enough about the people here to make such blanket statements.

so take my advice or not, you'll learn sooner or later.

And what the fuck is so great about you that I should ignore 11 years of experience? You claim you do this for a living...give me some names and some titles.

Monitors are more flat than others.

No shit.

The HS80's are pretty flat monitors, though they're a bit aggressive (but expose the problems in the mids).

That's purely subjective and they are actually widely known for hyping the mids.

I had Ns10's, but I never liked them much. I also have event 20/20's which I still have, and traded my adams a8x's for a used TLM 49. I am a gear head, and you would be surprised on how much better the Hs80's sound over some of the more expensive monitors.

No I wouldn't. I have heard them. I prefer the KRK's. That's why I bought them.

It wouldn't have to be like this if you didn't come in with such a cocky attitude. I seriously doubt you are in a position where you have nothing left to learn. I'm positive there are guys that frequent these forums that can school both of us. Try to be more humble. This aint your house yet.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I gave facts. Rokits aren't flat monitors, though having flat monitors is almost worthless without room treatment, unless you listen at extremely low levels. Have you gotten a chance to hear a real monitoring system? If you have, and you're still saying that the Rokits are flat, you're ears aren't trained well enough to be giving any advice on here.

I'm a newbie? Don't get over your head kid, this is what I do for a living, I'm trying to help somebody. You are too, but facts are facts, and Rokit's are COLORED. The whole point of monitors are to expose all problems in a mix, and to be as flat as possible, so that if the mix sounds good on your monitors, it will translate well on any system.

it's what I do for a living too and the thing is, the thread isn't about monitors. No one asked anything about monitors .... it's about a headphone product.

 

[Murdersgalore]

Kid.



AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

 

[benherron.rrr]

Monitors are more flat than others. The HS80's are pretty flat monitors, though they're a bit aggressive (but expose the problems in the mids). I had Ns10's, but I never liked them much. I also have event 20/20's which I still have, and traded my adams a8x's for a used TLM 49. I am a gear head, and you would be surprised on how much better the Hs80's sound over some of the more expensive monitors.

Maybe you should spend less time curled up in a corner cuddling your precious gear worrying if that beer can on the desk is effecting your room in the most insignificant way, and spend a little more time on the product your trying to create. And lets face it, the big boys would still laugh you out of the studio with that list. If your sitting there telling me that the frequency response of the monitors and room is more important than the final product. . . your wrong. . . fact. There are guys on here who can make a pro recording on less then pro gear. Only a poor craftsman blames his tools.

Judging your attitude. . . No wonder your spending your time writing here instead of working.

 

[miroslav]

... the thread isn't about monitors. No one asked anything about monitors .... it's about a headphone product.

Don't waste your time...I already tried!

 

[kidkage]

but kc said that the sm57 is the best mic for rap

 

[guitaristic]

True representation? Those are infamous for being colored, low-end monitors. I'm not trying to knock anybody with them, but if somebody is serious about mixing, they should definitely save up.

I gave facts. Rokits aren't flat monitors, though having flat monitors is almost worthless without room treatment, unless you listen at extremely low levels. Have you gotten a chance to hear a real monitoring system? If you have, and you're still saying that the Rokits are flat, you're ears aren't trained well enough to be giving any advice on here.

I'm a newbie? Don't get over your head kid, this is what I do for a living, I'm trying to help somebody. You are too, but facts are facts, and Rokit's are COLORED. The whole point of monitors are to expose all problems in a mix, and to be as flat as possible, so that if the mix sounds good on your monitors, it will translate well on any system.

Uh oh....looks like we got ourselves a gear snob!!

Take your opinions to gearslutz where the real pros are (myself included)

Haha pros my arse... mainly gear snobs (yourself included).

 

[bassbrad]

I'm glad I ordered one and trusted my ears before reading all the poo poo uninformed opinions(*) posted here.
FWIW it does exactly what I needed for a fraction of the cost of the selection of speakers and having a "perfect room", it will never replace having studio monitors or the perfectly set up room but it will make things a lot easier and faster w/o trucking over to the room I can occasionally use for reference.

* Excuse please if you are one of the poo poo talkers, try it then talk your poo.

 

[PDP]

I also think that it CAN POSSIBLY be useful for hearing how your mix would sound on other systems.

You made one relevant comment.

To the OP,
I thought it looked interesting for someone that may not be able to crank up speakers. Maybe you could demo it and see if it helps your mixing. Overall, I've been very happy with everything I've tried and bought from Focusrite. The DAW software mixer for my interface is very well designed.

 

[bassbrad]

UPDATE Last week I mixed and delivered a total of 12 tracks to 3 different bands using the VRM Box as a reference, everyone is pleased with the recordings even the picky mastering engineer that usually bounces trax back at least once was satisfied.

 

[kcearl]

True representation? Those are infamous for being colored, low-end monitors. I'm not trying to knock anybody with them, but if somebody is serious about mixing, they should definitely save up.

I gave facts. Rokits aren't flat monitors, though having flat monitors is almost worthless without room treatment, unless you listen at extremely low levels. Have you gotten a chance to hear a real monitoring system? If you have, and you're still saying that the Rokits are flat, you're ears aren't trained well enough to be giving any advice on here.

I'm a newbie? Don't get over your head kid, this is what I do for a living, I'm trying to help somebody. You are too, but facts are facts, and Rokit's are COLORED. The whole point of monitors are to expose all problems in a mix, and to be as flat as possible, so that if the mix sounds good on your monitors, it will translate well on any system.

Okay class...

Get some 703 fiberglass for bass traps, moving blankets are used all the time. Don't go out and by blankets for "recording" they're just packing blankets to begin with.

For mixing, I would recommend headphones if the room isn't treated, and if the monitors aren't that great. Sennheiser HD600, look into them. They're great for critical listening, and using headphones really help when it comes to hearing the stereo image.

I think if any body is using it as a first reference, that can be a very bad thing. I also think that it CAN POSSIBLY be useful for hearing how your mix would sound on other systems.

Yes, listen at low volumes. Conversation level (to avoid ear fatigue and damage), but even at the volume in an untreated room the low-end is still f***ed up. Room treatment isn't just for the reverberation and flutter echo. It's for the low-end too. My room is +/- 4 except for a little node around 9khz which is +6 (and that's far more accurate than most studios I've been in. The "Sweet spot" is you being in a position which makes an equilateral triangle and your room being symmetrical.

lol


stick a mix up and we'll decide if we want to hire you

 

[kcearl]

Take your opinions to gearslutz where the real pros are (myself included)

why did you come here?

 

[JimmyS1969]

why did you come here?

I'm sure glad he left. Though it was entertaining to watch his arrogance shattered by a gang rape of HR regulars.

Oh yeah, poo poo uninformed opinions? Yeah, I am glad that worked for you. I don't recall hearing any poopy comments that were out of line regarding room faking. The thread being 'jacked' by a completely judgmental bastard became a muse for regulars here and the topic was kinda ignored. I would myself like to hear your resulting mixes. I am open to anything that could benefit monitoring quality for sure.

Jimmy