Mixing with clients (i.e. managing people in the room)

[SouthSIDE Glen]

After I finish the tracking session, do I stop the clock, tell them to come tomorrow, and restart the clock?

Or if the band has difficulties coming to my studio again, stop the clock, tell them to go get lunch or something, then restart the clock when they get back?

The clock is running as long as you are "on the clock". Yeah, yeah, that seems kind of trite and non-explanatory, but it really should be true.

If you send them home and stop working, the clock stops.

If you send them home and keep working (on the mix or anything related to their project) the clock keeps running while you're working.

Ideally you should work on a method of blocking out time for your clients. They should reserve time in the form of a reserved appointment, just like with a doctor's office. This would include planned time for recording, mixing, and whatever else is planned for studio use for the project. Hopefully if they need to come back tomorrow, you/they already have that time planned and reserved.

As for whether lunch time is charged for, that varies a bit and is somewhat discressionary. The way I try and work it is to plan the lunch time into the schedule (e.g. you have my time reserved from 9am-12pm. At 12pm we'll break for lunch, and we'll continue from 1pm to 5pm) In that case, I'll lunch at the same time as the band (sometimes I'll bring lunch in as a benefit service on me). If, however, they block out a few hours with no plans for food, and they decide in the middle to break, I may or may not charge for that time. If I charge for it it's because they already bought the studio and me for that time and it's their problem if they decide to walk out for a half hour or an hour in the middle of the time they agreed to hire and pay for. I could easily have booked them for an hour less and used that open hour on another project. It depends, though. Sometimes I'll comprimise and say, "OK, I gotta charge you for the hour you're gone, but on day "X" you can make it up with a free un-charged hour.

The key is if you book them ahead for the hours, not only do you have an agreement which both sides should hold to and plan for, reducing headaches down the road, but they'll be more likely to take their in-studio time more seriously because they know they are "on the clock" while they're in there.

Where we should always differ from a doctor's office, however, is that we should never overbook and/or leave clients waiting in the green room because we can't keep our own schedule.

IMHO, YMMV, LSMFT.

G.

 

[giraffe]

I also avoid sending home rough mixes. -Chris

i had a guy call me at 2 in the morning once to tell me that the scratch lead on a rough mix was not loud enough. i'm serious.
scratch lead, rough mix. (i don't even nessacerally agree that it was to low, he really likes his leads much louder than i do. big difference.)

which leads me to a bit of a hijack.......

same guy, so we've been mixing his album, and i think i've done a good job, i really believe he's gotten more than his money's worth (i'm small time)
but it's been 6 months..... he's neurotic. i still see him once a week for the last 2 months for various very minor mix tweaks.
and last week he brought in a drummer (hired gun on all tracks) to replace some of the drum tracks that have been done for 4 months. the entire cd is mixed (many times over) and he wants to replace drum tracks.
ok, maybe i need to get over it.
but this guy sucks, he's got a bad attitude and he's not even 1/2 the drummer that played all of the drums originally.
now the tracks are bad (on the bright side, he did have really nice brass)

to top it off i just don't like this guy, (the client) not that he's evil or anything, he's just the type of person i don't like. passive aggressive, wishy-washy, and massively indecisive. i really like what i do, and i'm happy everyday that i can do it for money, but i've never, i mean never had this hard a time with someone. it's not that he's impossible to please, it's just that he changes his mind every week.
and he calls me at 2 AM. (actually has happened twice)

at this point i'm really just doing it for the money, this has never happened before (although i suppose it was inevitable) i have always wanted to see my customers. been happy to help them, but i really want this guy to go away.
i have to screen his calls, listen to his messages and give 20 minutes before i call him back in the hopes that my annoyance won't creep into my voice. just hearing from him puts me in a sour mood for a short time.

really, this is not me.
i keep telling myself that "a pro would just deal, and do whatever it takes to make him happy"
and i really want to, but more and more i just kind of want him to go away.
it's really not worth the money, and i never really consider doing jobs about the money, let alone getting sick of it enough to not want the money.

He says things like “this has to be perfect, cause it’s the last thing I’m ever going to do”
Like his life ends with this album (all of these songs he wrote when he was 17-24, he is now 46)
I’m not kidding about that last bit.
I try to moderate his expectations, let him know that I’m a small studio and he sure as hell is not paying the amount of money that was spent on the shit on the radio, but….
Whatever.

I’ll post a song at some point.
/rant

 

[gtrman_66]

I keep a big stack of nudie mags around for just such occasions. Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, Voluptious, Juggs etc. etc., a little something for everyone.

Keeps 'em occupied and out of my hair while I mix their stuff

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

(all of these songs he wrote when he was 17-24, he is now 46)

I think I know that guy...

I actually know a fellow like that. Its a bit sad, really, but he did inspire me to get my own stuff DONE. I actually went and had a friend of mine mix my own work for me just to STOP messing with it and get it OVER WITH! Perfect? No. Better than I ever did? Yes. Would I have EVER finished it on my own? Probably not. Well worth the money just to get it the hell off my hard drive and move on.

You know, there are always stages of a project that I don't enjoy the most. At those times I remind myself that I'm playing a part in someone else's creative endeavor and that I enjoy playing a supporting role in that. I enjoy what I do almost overwhelmingly for the most part- and the times that its just a job for money I can carry myself through. Its up to you if you want to try and get this guy to lock down on a mix of just tell him you won't work on it past a certain date, or whatever. If he's paying reliably then it might not be a bad idea to keep with it. Maybe you can bring him around and help him get it DONE?

You might look around for quotes from big producer types. Stuff like George Lucas saying "A movie is never finsihed, its just abandonded" and someone else said "An album is never finishedp- it escapes..." and that kind of thing. This guy is caught with over-protective mother syndrome: he'll never finish and never be happy until he releases his high expectations and lets his "baby" out of the "womb." I actually lost one project that I was really enjoying because the songwriter was convinced she could never get the songs "perfect" enough- its a common problem for songwriters.

You can always raise your rates, too. I'd let him know in advance "Hey, man. My expenses are going up and I have to raise my rates. They'll be the same until the end of the year but then it'll be $x. You're a long time customer, so I thought I'd let you know in advance. Would you like to schedule some time before the 1st of the year to polish off those mixes?"

Part of the job at this level. Probably at other levels as well. In none of the various careers I've persued did I get to pick the people I worked for and love every one of them all the time. Part of being a professional is dealing with that dynamic gracefully.

Take care,
Chris

 

[mixandmaster]

If you want them to feel more comfortable with you, have them bring in some music they like to hear. Listen to it together, ask them what they like about it without asking them what they like about it. Then tell them you like what they like about it. Make them feel like you're into the style of music (even if you're not). Be enthusiastic about their respective parts..."that drum fill is perfect"..."I dig the bass line in the bridge"..."who sang those harmonies"...etc. It's all about their ego. If you can stroke it, the sessions will go smooth. If you can't they will not.

 

[bigtoe]

i work it this way:

when the band isn't there - it's their fault the mixes suck because their input isn't there. it's their music and how they hell should i know what's going on with their music.

when the band is there - it's their fault the mixes suck because their input isn't allowing me to work effectively.

that covers all my bases.



just kidding.

i'm a strong advocate for a band being in the mix process unless i'm hired to mix their record carte blanche and i rarely am hired to do that. i'm hired to serve the band and their wants best i can...and that translates to being a medium between their ideas and what's happening in the room/out of the speakers.

i actually find i can usually rely on one member has a decent set of ears and bounce ideas off em as they do me. makes it very productive and i sometimes get mixes i think are better than ones i'd mix alone. the two brains are better than one camp. it can work the other way as well...the too many cooks in the kitchen camp...

later days...

Mike

 

[mshilarious]

You might look around for quotes from big producer types. Stuff like George Lucas saying "A movie is never finsihed, its just abandonded"

No, Star Wars was done. Han Solo shot first

 

[giraffe]

I think I know that guy...
Chris

it's the first job where i really wish that he took it somewhere else to be mixed.

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

Thanks for the good conversation, everyone.

In my situation, I had the opportunity to hang out wih the band as they were polishing their tracks the other day. They work really well together, take each others' suggestions seriously, and handle differences of opinion really well. It was really encouraging. Of course, they were in the think of some fun creative stuff and having a blast.

So far, so good. I'm meeting with them this evening to talk about what direction they want to go with it and listen to the other songs they want their work to sound like. They aren't quite done editting rolleyes so it'll be a few more days I actually get the tracks- just as well, I'd rather not be making editing decisions on each drum hit for them.

If all goes well I'll be mixing them this Saturday, but I have a feeling their edits won't be done. We'll see. I *really* don't like doing that part and would *much* rather the other engineer do that with them. Editting and mixing are TOTALLY different headspaces...

Take care,
Chris

 

[faderjockey]

Mixing..

I have a rule....No one there while i'm getting the mix together. People never shut the hell up...I have a lobby but they have to leave in the control room...

So I do mixes with out... They come in and listen once I have something together. But the last God...can't even remember 5 projects, Clients don't want to be there. They all want to sit home and let me send them 192k MP3 just to check... I love it. Because these same clients that don't mind a 192K file wouldn't know what the hell I did or why.

But the best part (besides them not being there to kill my mix Vibe) they hear it were they listen. I've found over my many years that back in the day when mixing to 1/2" or Dat or whatever. Clients had to be there for playback. They weren't use to the monitors...So they wanted changes you knew weren't needed. Now with this MP3 thing. Clients can quickly make cdr listen in the home stereo or car...I find there are less changes... They dig it faster because they are on speakers they know.

That's how I roll....

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

What a mess- it did work out well, though.

I had the band with me the entire time. (sigh) They did well enough but it took me too long to figure out that everything they wanted could have been easily summed up:

"Mister Mixing Engineer, could you please squash the snot out of this mix and make it sound like the latest hit record by our favorite band?"

I'm sad to say that the mixes didn't turn out all that well. Since they were analog mixes (which I still maintain was a good idea) there is no remixing to be done- so I spent some time WITHOUT the band present mastering the project (i.e. making it squash well) and they were elated. The grumpy drummer was actually bopping along to the flattened tracks and said "Wow. We sound like a real band!"

(groan)

I had no idea the number of problems I was inheriting from the tracking engineer. To start, the sessions were tracked 48k but clocked to 44.1... I had force clock it to 44.1 but the final files still came out sounding like Alvin and the Chipmunks. I ended up doing an analog layback to 2 tracks of the 1/2" 8 track because I couldn't figure out a better way to quickly get the tracks to the right clock in the box- while the tired band waited late into the night for their CD to blast in the car on the drive home.

The drum tracks were odd. The mics must have moved over the course of the session because the kick only sounded good on one song and got progressively worse. The snare just sounded bad the whole time (BONG!- 57 on a rim clip, batter head) and I ended up having to pull some "crack" out of the over heads...which were probably 1/8" away from the cymbals... They miced the hih-hat, which was also deafening in the overheads, but not the bottom of the snare. Getting a decent kit sound was like pulling teeth.

The guitars were recorded with 2 mics each take. Then the guitarist decided he hated one of them and loved the other- leaving me with mono guitars. The guitarist was also *extremely* sensitive to any EQ changes in the midrange. So everytime I tried to carve out a little space for the limited-range singer he'd notice. I like that- he knew what he wanted and had gotten it on tape- it just made it hard for me to mix.

The guys were great, though, and the discussions about what to do and why were fun and creative. It was both a great mixing session and exactly what I was hoping it wouldn't be: 10% mixing, 90% educating the band about the process of mixing. Not my best work, but I was able to give them what they wanted with the final delivery.

Anyway...just thought I'd vent... er, wrap up the story.

Take care,
Chris