Mixing vs Mastering

[atomictoyz]

In my little old opinion. In agreement with Bruce about bouncing thru an analog medium "can" add warmth to digital material, but only if its the right machine. Even some of the $35,000 Otari machines won't do the job, there are specific machine that do better than others. Its great as practice to use a cheap 4 track or whatever just to learn the ropes. One thing that you can do to avoid the portastudio is to rent a nice $2000 multiband compressor for a few days and a dat machine, run your mix thru the compressor into the dat machine directly, its going to be signifcantly more transparent than anything else. You can even record onto your sound card from the compressor. Learning to use compression on the stereo buss correctly is something you have to do sometimes, though not always recommended. Its been the subject of one of the hottest debates over at the Mastering Engineers bbs in the last 2 weeks.
Plenty of studios rent equipment because it more cost effective. When I interned at Momentum, we rented singers too... Plus renting great equipment is invalueable in experiencing true Class A signal processors.

As long as you learn from your experiments....


Peace,
Dennis

 

[Lopp]

Bruce knows what he's talking about. It's generally a safe bet to learn from his opinion/advice (unless he's disagreeing with me).

 

[Deadboyy]

Okay , hold on a sec

Ok ,, I know all the guru's are going to call me stupid , but its ok,, I am , in the technical world of music...... Okay (Mixing) yes ,, seems very important, and has to have a trained ear, with years of experience with there gear and music production.. But mastering just seems gay... I mean come on,, it just sounds like getting all the songs the same volume on the cd... that just seems easy. I dont understand the problem???? ,, why are people charging like 1300 dollars to do this????

 

[JFogarty]

Prepare for the most hardcore flamming you have ever imagined....

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Re: Okay , hold on a sec

But mastering just seems gay...

I mean come on,, it just sounds like getting all the songs the same volume on the cd...

Well... that's only a small part of what's involved in the overall mastering process...... if you really want to know what's involved in the process then pick up a copy of Bobby Owsinski's "Mastering Engineer's Handbook" -- mind you, if you do, you're gonna feel kinda stupid for your above post......

Your comments are kinda like saying -- "eh... what's the big deal about going to a studio to record -- I can do EVERYTHING they do on my PortaStudio for a lot cheaper........."

Careful - your ignorance is showing...............

Bruce

 

[atomictoyz]

Re: Re: Okay , hold on a sec

then pick up a copy of Bobby Owsinski's "Mastering Engineer's Handbook"

Come now Bruce, you know that your not allowed to recommend that book until the are at least a dedicated member

Im going to repeat an anology I think has been posted here, but maybe a little different.

Tracking and Mixing is like building a race car engine. You gather all the parts together, you assemble them with fairly cheap tools and pretty expensive tools and for the most part get an "engine". Cheap tools will get you an engine where the tolerances not are as tight as they could be and you could run into problems down stream.

Mastering, is the tuning of the engine. They make sure you can run the engine to its maximum performance in a variety of mediums. It also has to meet certain standards to make sure it runs like all the other engines its competing with. You can't tune a poorly assembled engine to run like a engine built with exacting tolerances. Ever hear of Grumpy Jenkins? He is the Bob Ludwig of the racing engines in the 70's, great ears......
Tunings cost money...Going rate for a tune up on an engine is over $100 hr...

You can't race a 77 Pinto with a 77 NASCAR spec'd Ford Fairlane or whatever.

Are you starting to see the simularities yet?

Peace,
Dennis

 

[DaveC]

Gary,
Don't sweat it. BearShit is his usual charming self. Always wagging that "pro" shit arrogance out there. Hey beardickhead its called HomeRecording.com. Not wannabePRODICKSHERE.com.

I'm so fucking sick of everyone kissing your lame ass on top of it. Don't respond to people if you get so pissed at how stupid we all are. You are a cunt from wayback. Got a problem with me... make your move, otherwise do myself and probably 1000's of others here, and go fuck yourself NOW.

DUH

Dave C

 

[Track Rat]

Chill Dave.

 

[Lopp]

This thread ain't goin nowheres good.


Die thread, die!

 

[atomictoyz]

This thread ain't goin nowheres good.


Die thread, die!

Heh heh, there is always one subject that is like a dandylion weed, no matter how manytimes you try to kill it, more keep popping up....In comes Agent Orange.....

I SAID DIE YOU BRIGHTLY COLORED WEED!!


Peace,
Dennis

 

[Deadboyy]

WTF???? is wrong with you people??

YA KNOW ????? Just when I want to say screw this site and every washed up cock sucker on it,,,,, but then I get these kool , informative responses from people like that blue bear guy,, and I have to step back and take the good people from the bad.....

Thank you Blue Bear ,, I am very ignorant to the technical side of music production yes I admit that ,,, but thats what this site is for..... and another thing Atomic toyz , Im tired of asking a question about mixing , or mastering ,, or anything else and you treating me like I can't even play a power chord .... PLease !! the get fuck over yourself ,,, half of you cock suckers on here are probly wash up ,, clapton rejects , that think since they play the local bars , or have a shitty ass little record label ,, think they know it all.... If you put 20 years of experience beside your title ,, or 10 years experience ,,,, that just means your a failure in the music industry...... I mean come on ,, if someone says they have been going to college for over 20 years and they havent graduated ,, you would call them a failure.... Trust me you washed up ,, overatted fag,,, If you have been in this for 10 or 20 years ,, and still have time to come on this site 10 times a day,, and have 5000 posts beside your name ,, you obviously arn't doing anything special with your (music experience!)..... And dont try to tell me people like you come on here to help newbie's ,, cause you dont!!! ,, you just like coming on here to make your witty little psuedo intellectuall comments about your so called "music experience".... your probly 35 years old ,, thinking your going to still make it in the music industry..... I hate you,, you washed up fucks , that think they know it all .... your the same kind of pricks I meet when I walk into a music store and ask about a guitar ... You look at music in a soul less mathmatical way,, and it shows when you proceed to be the cock sucker that you are ..........

And I cant believe , you just bashed that one guy that tried to help me , and told me about a book ,,, its just a book,, god damn man ,,, what tha fuck is wrong with you...... That just shows that you dont care about anyone ,,,, telling me I have to be a devoted member to get this info????? I dont want to be a devoted member of this BBS ,, I want to be a devoted member to my music ,,, and just come on here when I need some help ..... your so lost ,,, you have just completely lost yourself in this "pro attitude" that you sport ... ,, so thanks for the info blue bear .... and for atomic toyz , and all the cock suckers on here like him ,,, fuck you. If I ever saw you on the street , and you talked down to me like that , I would smack you like the washed up little fag you are ....... good bye and have a nice day

 

[atomictoyz]

I apologize for offending you!

You obviously lack the sense of humor required for being in public places. If you can't take a little coarse jesting then I suggest that this is not the place for you. I said nothing directed at you as a person, my posts are usually just information in regards to the subject with an occasional poke.
My comments about the book on mastering are a playful pokes at Bruce and Bruce alone.
If you think you wanna take a shot at me, seek some help for anger management. I seriously doubt you would try anything if you saw me on the street. You need to get over yourself. With the amount of profanity in your post, pushing violence and hate over text on a screen you really need to reconsider how you come across.

You seem to think you know so much about people from less than 2 pages of information. As far as your summation of who I am, what I do, and my sexual orientation is as off base as it gets.

Whats wrong with me.... isn't the question you ought to be asking.


Peace,
Dennis

 

[Deadboyy]

Im sorry

ya know , im sorry , I really am.

I guess I do need some anger managment. I guess my prozac has'nt kick in today. I cant even go outside without going into a violate rage. I am so sorry , to call you those names. Sure your not an asshole, your right you just poke fun, how could I have been so stupid. I am very sorry sir and please on get me banned from this site. I mean, were else would I find people to give me 80% harrasment, and 20% information. I just could live without such a wonderfull BBS.


PS .. FAG, COCK SUCKER , MOTHER FUCKER!!! (im just pokin fun)

 

[atomictoyz]

Deadboyy,

I wouldn't even consider asking someone to ban another user of the forum. You are certainly welcome to voice your opinions about whoever you want, for any reason you want. So lets say your entirely correct in your statements, that I do fit the description down to the smallest "poke"?

Ok Im a jerk with an IQ under size 8. I know less than everyone who comes to this bbs and I contribute even less than 20% you quote in your estimate. My dick is small and Im ugly and gay. dumb M-Fkr who only comes in here to make people smarter than me feel stupid. Im 35 an I am still in high school, my parent can't kick me out of the house and Im jobless. I am a complete failure in every aspect of my life, you win..game over... Ill ban myself from this bbs because no one really cares about my stupid sorry butt.

Im big fat liar, please disregard all posts made under the nick name of Atomictoyz. Im just completely worthless, sorry to have bothered everyone with my stupidity, arrogance, misinformation, and poorly recorded material.


Atomic Out!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Gary,
Don't sweat it. BearShit is his usual charming self. Always wagging that "pro" shit arrogance out there. Hey beardickhead its called HomeRecording.com. Not wannabePRODICKSHERE.com.

I'm so fucking sick of everyone kissing your lame ass on top of it. Don't respond to people if you get so pissed at how stupid we all are. You are a cunt from wayback. Got a problem with me... make your move, otherwise do myself and probably 1000's of others here, and go fuck yourself NOW.

DUH

Dave C

You kiss your mom with that mouth asswipe???

Don't get mad at me because you don't have your recording shit together.......

Idiot........

*yawn*


What's your fuckin' problem anyways? I have no beef with you......

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Once again, Harvey's quote is SO applicable....

"Which would you choose; someone with a 50/50 smattering of knowledge and very polite,
or 97% accuracy and blunt?"

If you don't want a smart-ass answer, don't phrase your question in such a fuckin' ignorant way....

 

[bean 123]

Hey there Deadboyy, Bruce at times may seem a bit
arrogant (see Mastering in SF) but the gut definately posts some usefull stuff. I think sometimes he is simply direct. I had thought before that he was arrogant, but I have found he adjusts his response style to the question. Bang back a bit and read..... Don't jump to conclusions.....I think we can all learn a bit from the guy.

 

[dobro]

How's this one:

Mastering is to the individual songs on the album as mixing is to the individual tracks in each song. In other words, you make the different elements work well together.

As for making the different people on this site work well together, that's much more difficult...

I've got a lot of respect for engineers. I've also got a lot of respect for my listeners (at last count, it was about 20 people, I think). Here's a test I'd really like to run. I'd like to play my mix of a song for them, and then play the same mix that had been well-mastered, and ask them if they hear a difference. So, I think I will do that. I really wanna know.

A short time ago, I played my wife two versions of the same tune, one recorded in 16-bit, the second recorded in 24-bit. She spotted it right off.

"Why's the second one sound better?" I asked.

"Can't say, exactly. It just sounds better. Smoother."

If I hear a comment like that about a mastered mix of mine, I'm getting the rest of my stuff mastered. But if the listeners in the cheap seats can't spot it right off, then I'm saving my money and calling mastering another case of the emperor's clothes.

 

[Lopp]

Heh heh, there is always one subject that is like a dandylion weed, no matter how manytimes you try to kill it, more keep popping up....In comes Agent Orange.....

I SAID DIE YOU BRIGHTLY COLORED WEED!!

For the record, I wasn't taking any sides aside from the death of this thread because I couldn't justify the tone of either side by the time I made my post. Albeit, one certain poster went waaay over the edge. I always think it's funny when a party to a discussion has to resort to cursing and name calling.

May Satan himself rise up and drag this thread down to the fiery depths of hell.

Die Thread!

 

[dobro]

Okay, maybe I won't get my stuff mastered by someone even if it sounds better. Maybe I'll buy Izotope Ozone and spend a number of years mastering my own stuff badly and having a lot of fun.