Mixing using headphones ot monitors ?

[gilwe]

To get the best results should headphones or monitor be used ?

I noticed that the mixing I do using headphones sound great listening with the headphone but not as good when listening to the recordings on my home audio system.

My home audio system is an old great analog Kenwood anp and Mission 702 GREAT loudspeakers.

Lately I started to use the 702 while mixing instead of the headphones because I "know" how my desired sound should sound on my home system.

Or should I move to studio monitors ?

 

[dobro]

You'll enjoy the move to monitors if you decide to do that, because you'll be hearing more than you heard before in your mixes. Details. That's what you'll hear.

 

[littledog]

I use headphones to check certain mix details, but mixing exclusively on headphones has a number of problems.

First of all, most people don't have high enough quality headphones, or a decent headphone preamp.

Secondly, certain elements like stereo imaging and reverb tend to be difficult to judge on headphones in a way that translates well to speakers. Part of this has to do with the fact that if you mix on speakers, even in the near field, you are still geting an interaction with a real acoustic space (the room). Although everyone's room will differ, almost anyone listening to your mix on their own speakers are going to be in SOME kind of room. Headphones, on the other hand, completely eliminate room interaction.

I think you will find an investment in studio monitors to be a significant aid to your mixing.

 

[Retro]

Another element you lose with headphones is the ability to hear both channels with both ears (i.e. hearing the left speaker with the right ear as well as the left one). This affects how the brain process the sound and determines location.

I have also noticed that headphone can make things that are slightly off sound ok - in other words, they can lie to you. Mixes that I have done on headphones never seem to translate well to other systems (wihtout making numerous corrections).

That said, I do a lot of mixing on headphones out of necessity because my "studio" is in my living room until I can relocate it. I also don't have good monitors (I have a subwoofer pc system ). I have to check my mixes on different systems after I mix and then go back and make adjustments - a very long and tedious process. I rely on my car stereo a lot because I know what a mix should sound like on it.

 

[tubedude]

Thing is, you WILL mix better on GOOD headphones than you will on crappy monitors. There is nothing even NEAR the pricerange of a pair of Sennheiser 580's or 600's that will give you anywhere NEAR the definition that these provide. A pair of 600's that are about $300, will serve you better than a pair of monitors at twice the price alot of times. Plus, you can tweak in the middle of the night. The 580's can be had for $199 at headphone.com Keep in mind that if you get an audiophile headphone amp, you'll get even MORE clarity, and its truly amazing what you'll hear that you never heard before.
Monitrs are great, and nothing is like them, but at the same time, a pair of monitors to match the $300 headphones are about $1500... so, take it from there...

 

[Phloodpants]

I just got a pair of Etymotic ER-4S canalphones and let me tell you... They are the most dead balls-on accurate things I have ever heard!

http://www.etymotic.com/product_lis...y_id=1&product_type_id=2&product_number=ER-4S

I also have the Grado SR-225 and Sennheiser HD-600, which are both considered some of the finest headphones available, and I love them, but when it comes to revealing the truth, the Ety's are just unbeleivable! It's like a cybernetic implant. The music is piped directly into your brain with no coloration. Phenomenal.

I haven't tried it yet, but I think they are going to work well for me to set EQs on tracks. Then use the monitors for the actual mixing.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Thing is, you WILL mix better on GOOD headphones than you will on crappy monitors.

Sorry TD, I gotta disagree...... 99% of the time, a headphone mix simply doesn't translate very well to monitors...

Once you've adjusted to the sound of crappy monitors, you'd be able to turn out translatable mixes.... it takes far more "adjusting" to learn how to translate headphone mixes so that they sound correct on monitors!

Bruce

 

[tubedude]

Hey Phloodpants... how old are your Hd-600's? Wanna sell them? Email if you do.. musikaldude@aol.com

Blue bear... I like monitors just as much, but as far as detail and quality of sound, you cant touch a pair of $300 headphones with a pair of $300 monitors. NOt that I have found anyway.

 

[Track Rat]

Tube, I have to disagree too. Things happen with speakers in free space that just can't happen with headphones. Reverbs and time based effects levels sound differently in headphones vs monitors. It's very cool to check mixes on phones and as many different speaker systems as you can but using just headphones to make mix dicisions is a losing proposition.

 

[shackrock]

when it comes to "studio monitors". whats the difference from, say, a pair of modified RtR's - (that my friend beefed up for me for 20 bucks for both..)..., to a pair of "studio monitors"?

in addition, can i find a pair that would be WORTH it for 100 bucks or less? lol

 

[tubedude]

I'm not disputing the benefits of good monitors at all... I'm just saying that for level of detail and quality of listening, you'll be hard pressed to find a pair of $600 monitors that get close to a pair of $300 headphones. And with something like the Hd 600's, well, they are probably flatter and more accurate and detailed than any studio monitors that are under $1500 a pair... that doesnt make them perfect for mixing, but it sure makes for an eye opening experience. And if you are in a situation where having monitors would be a problem, you would be well served by a set of excellent cans, and can accomplish TONS of good mixing with some great cans and a decent reference system to listen back on.
My favorites so far, beleive it or not, are the Mackie monitors. They really sound nice, and have lotsa juice, too. A tad more than I can afford, though... I've been looking at the Tannoy Reveals, they sound super nice, but something just seems a tad weird about them. Cant pinpoint it though.
And finally, check out headphone.com they have a headphone amp that causes the left ear/right ear delay and HF rolloff that you would get with real monitors to help things sound more realistic on the phones. Dunno how good it is, but it could be cool.

 

[volltreffer]

High!

I also disagree with you! IMO, the problem is that you somehow hear completely different with phones on. I don't know why, but somehow you hear instruments in the phones that you wont hear later, The separation of instruments seems much better than it does later... I even find it really disturbing to hear hard panned instruments with headphones - it sometimes almost gives me a headache. Perhaps your amp MIGHT help, but I'm afraid this is not much better than Rolands Mic modeling or EQing crappy monitors - you may learn to get along with it, but will induce other problems... It might help in your special case, though...

As I mix at home, too , with my kids sleeping in the next room, I simply HAVE to do a lot on my phones, but then I always do one mix, listen to it on my monitors, stereo and car stereo the next day, and try to find out what disturbs me in these mixes. If there is a track too low, I raise it by lets say 1dB, 2dB and 3dB in different mixes. Those will be checked the next day... All in all a very boring process


Ciao

Axel

 

[gilwe]

Well, mix that is done using my Sony headphones doesn't sound as good as on my home system, and vice versa ... Than I check the mix on other headphones and the vocals seems to be too loud (or not...)

I think that best reference monitors, or headphones, are a must for correct mixing. Otherwise you're gonna ping-pong from your car audio to your home audio to your discman and never get over with it !

As I don't have the budget for best monitors, I think I'm gonna get one of these Sennheisers !

Than I can check the mix on my home system as a reference for how good the sound and mix is...

I definately agree that "perfect" headphone mix is not translated well to speaker systems. You need to find that kind of mixing "formula" or balance that you know that is gonna sound good with headphones as well as on speakers, when headphone mixing and monitor mixing as well ...

 

[chessrock]

I think you should use as many different methods of monitoring as you possibly can. If you can get things to sound decent on monitors, your stereo, your car, and a set of head phones, then chances are you have a pretty good mix.