Mixing secrets by sonusman

[PD9L]

http://marsh.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/8354/?SQ=2e8b8c71466ecb6a12216f5c498a8733

http://marsh.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/5026/?SQ=c55661cbd444ebceba6271b4f69f1488


As a moderator at the Marsh I should like to take a moment and refute your specious and ill-informed commentary.

Above are two typical discussions found at The Marsh in the technical fora. Both are informative and I would imagine quite useful to any number of recordists looking to expand their horizon of personal knowledge. Most of the posts in the technical fora are generally within the grasp of most hobby recordists and recording 101 is an area of the forum specifically geared toward the least informed among us....you might want to make special note of that!

We have a number of intelligent, well informed contributers who bring a plethora of knowledge and experience to the many diverse topics that have found their way to our virtual pages. I suggest there is little a novice could ever ask that has not been well answered in our humble corner of the net.

FYI...It is always helpful to have a sense of humour at the Marsh and in particular Mixerman's forum. Drop by sometime and visit, you may just learn a few things about mixing, both sonically and socially!


Cheers,
Aardvark

7 years ago, when I started posting here, your site was rubbish and full of snobs. That is what led to the success of HR.com

I have been "there". It was a bit stuffy. It might have changed, but, you know that thing about first impressions.

I "mix" socially just fine. I achieve the effect I am after.

 

[mshilarious]

What I was getting at, is that if you are indeed a Montrealer, you make me ashamed to admit I hail from that great province

However, I have my doubts, because most Montrealers I grew up with are educated enough to know the difference between Washington state and Washington DC

I've only been to Montreal twice, but I'm pretty sure it's not a province

I was there for the city's third greatest sporting moment ever

 

[fraserhutch]

I've only been to Montreal twice, but I'm pretty sure it's not a province

I was there for the city's third greatest sporting moment ever

Well, yeah,OK, let me amend that: the world's greatest city in the province of Quebec

Oops.

 

[AardvarkPSW]

Ah, now you change your location to Canada. Whereabouts? Montreal?

Nevermind, that would be the Song Critique Forum.

And why slam Mixerman?

Uhhhhh.....hehehehe...he is my buddy as is Kenny the drum sample pimp...I was taking the piss to them as it were!

Sense of humour and all!!

Trying to take the sour edge off of the tone one of your posters has contributed!


Oh well...

...Wrong crowd...



Go Habs Go!


Cheers,
Aardvark

 

[fraserhutch]

Uhhhhh.....hehehehe...he is my buddy as is Kenny the drum sample pimp...I was taking the piss to them as it were!

Sense of humour and all!!

Trying to take the sour edge off of the tone one of your posters has contributed!


Oh well...

...Wrong crowd...



Go Habs Go!


Cheers,
Aardvark

I apologize, I was just getting a little tired of the slammin' here, and misinterpreted your post. My bad.

And yes, les habs rock!

 

[snow lizard]

I am still waiting for Mixerman to step up and offer some mixing tips/tricks/etc...

You know, that is really what seperated this place from all the BBS's that the "pro's" hang out at. People would come here and get GOOD ADVICE on how to approach aspects of audio production. Usually, they had tried all the places the "pro's" hang out, and were generally frustrated because they were dotted on, given overly vague tidbits, or just generally ignored. Sorry, but Mixerman comes from such a site, and so far, the stuff he has shared here has been mostly USELESS overly generalized stuff. This disturbs me. He get's credibility for offering NOTHING so far.

Fuck that. Plenty of snob BBS's out there just chewing up bandwidth to offer newbs nothing at all. Guys like him will turn this place into another one of them.

I STILL think he is just here to make a presence so as to increase book sales. Only he can change that perception by actually getting his hands dirty and actually offering up useful help.

I am not holding my breath.................

Actually Ed, he was the moderator of another forum before he went to PSW (before the book came out) and he was giving out advice on r.a.p a couple of years before that. What do you suppose motivated him before the book came out?

The book itself is a series of online diaries that was posted to PSW in realtime in 2002. 60% of it is still there. Damn near all of it once was - that's where it came from.

I think the idea for a book may have come from Marv Ellis, but this is speculation. There were people on r.a.p asking for a book. You can google it up if you want.

Mixing with a spectrum analizer is another popular internet idea. Is this that "good advice" you're talking about? Who knows? Maybe in the future we'll have mix plugins so you can just click on Brian Eno or Bob Clearmountain and forget about it. It sounds like bullshit to me, but if anyone disagrees I'm ok with that.

I like the various and many pros we have here that like to debunk stuff. That's what makes this a great forum for me to read. Sometimes people disagree. It's nice to get different opinions.

Yes, a wave editor can be useful. That's obviously not your mission here.

I'm enjoying Mixerman's input here. Mostly in just about every thread other than this one he's posted to so far, but he's brought up some good points in here too.

And I like 200k on a bass.


sl

 

[AardvarkPSW]

7 years ago, when I started posting here, your site was rubbish and full of snobs...

The Marsh is a little over a year and a half old.

Again, I suggest you drop by and thusly be informed about the Marsh should you choose to comment about it again!


Cheers,
Aardvark

 

[snow lizard]

I've only been to Montreal twice, but I'm pretty sure it's not a province

In the words of our former prime minister, it's a graet cosmeupolutain seiteh. I'm not really sure what that means.


sl

 

[PD9L]

The Marsh is a little over a year and a half old.

Again, I suggest you drop by and thusly be informed about the Marsh should you choose to comment about it again!


Cheers,
Aardvark

Well then, it is just an upstart that would have never happened had this place never been successful!

 

[PD9L]

Actually Ed, he was the moderator of another forum before he went to PSW (before the book came out) and he was giving out advice on r.a.p a couple of years before that. What do you suppose motivated him before the book came out?

The book itself is a series of online diaries that was posted to PSW in realtime in 2002. 60% of it is still there. Damn near all of it once was - that's where it came from.

I think the idea for a book may have come from Marv Ellis, but this is speculation. There were people on r.a.p asking for a book. You can google it up if you want.

Mixing with a spectrum analizer is another popular internet idea. Is this that "good advice" you're talking about? Who knows? Maybe in the future we'll have mix plugins so you can just click on Brian Eno or Bob Clearmountain and forget about it. It sounds like bullshit to me, but if anyone disagrees I'm ok with that.

I like the various and many pros we have here that like to debunk stuff. That's what makes this a great forum for me to read. Sometimes people disagree. It's nice to get different opinions.

Yes, a wave editor can be useful. That's obviously not your mission here.

I'm enjoying Mixerman's input here. Mostly in just about every thread other than this one he's posted to so far, but he's brought up some good points in here too.

And I like 200k on a bass.


sl

Dewd you are all over the map here. Stay on a topic at least!

And if wave editors are not my "mission here", what do you suppose is? I fucking hate jackazzez that come in with "leading" comments, but don't bother to say what they really mean? In the real world, I am a contractor, I am used to up front and frank discussions. If you have something to imply to me, SAY IT!

I see, let's gang up on the messenger because he calls bullshit on a "celebrity" that comes in with a fucking attitude talking shit about something he obviously misread in the first place.

And some wonder why I talk trash!

 

[Mixerman]

And one last thing. Certainly, I have dealt with my fair share of clients that hang out in the studio and want to "assist" in the mixing process.

The most simple and effective thing you can do is "suggest" some parameters (ask them to pick their battles for the greater good per se) and remind them of those if they start to cross the line. If they don't show any interest in your suggested parameter, simply, you must give them what they want. THEY PAY YOU, and your job is to provide the service they want from you. If they think they know better than you about how their mix should sound, in the name of good relations and customer service, you give it to them, even though you know they will regret it later. Trust me, if you set parameter early in the game, and THEY ignore them and you just give them what they think they want, you will earn FAR MORE RESPECT that way than to try to battle it.

Remember, you get paid no matter what, and YOU are the "pro". If they want to take it out of your hands, let them. You will certainly be booking hours down the road to remix what THEY FUCKED UP, and they will at least respect you for trying to help early on.

Get it?

So, how did THAT help you with mixing? Notta!

Personally, I believe a mixer should charge for his mixes and not for his time. This prevents the mixer from allowing the band to shoot themselves in the foot in order to generate more billable hours.

When I'm done a mix with a band, everyone is happy and signed off on it. I want to avoid recalling or redoing mixes because I feel that the best energy of a mix is usually captured on the first attempt. As a mixer, particlarly without a producer, but often even with one, I am the leader. If I'm going to allow the band to go over the cliff, I'm going with them.

I don't allow bands to take the mix out of my hands. I find that more often than not, my vision is similar to their vision. When they differ, I go their way, and if I feel their vision is wrong, I will give them detailed explanations and comparisons, and strive to demonstrate precisely where I think they are missing the boat. I find this kind of respect goes further, than treating them as merely renters of my time.

Charging per mix has the added benefit of keeping clients relaxed, and unworried about the clock. In my case, that's not too much of an issue, because I usually mix 2 songs per day on average. But in general, I look for anything I can to keep the clients relaxed. A relaxed client is one of the more important aspects of mixing effectively.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

 

[A Reel Person]

Is Jeff Lynne selling his diaries?

....................

 

[PD9L]

Personally, I believe a mixer should charge for his mixes and not for his time. This prevents the mixer from allowing the band to shoot themselves in the foot in order to generate more billable hours.

When I'm done a mix with a band, everyone is happy and signed off on it. I want to avoid recalling or redoing mixes because I feel that the best energy of a mix is usually captured on the first attempt. As a mixer, particlarly without a producer, but often even with one, I am the leader. If I'm going to allow the band to go over the cliff, I'm going with them.

I don't allow bands to take the mix out of my hands. I find that more often than not, my vision is similar to their vision. When they differ, I go their way, and if I feel their vision is wrong, I will give them detailed explanations and comparisons, and strive to demonstrate precisely where I think they are missing the boat. I find this kind of respect goes further, than treating them as merely renters of my time.

Charging per mix has the added benefit of keeping clients relaxed, and unworried about the clock. In my case, that's not too much of an issue, because I usually mix 2 songs per day on average. But in general, I look for anything I can to keep the clients relaxed. A relaxed client is one of the more important aspects of mixing effectively.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

Haha. I liked how you said more or less what I did, but somehow make it sound different. LOL

 

[snow lizard]

Dewd you are all over the map here. Stay on a topic at least!

Sorry I made a typo - 200Hz, not 200k.

And if wave editors are not my "mission here", what do you suppose is?

Only you can supply that.

I see, let's gang up on the messenger because he calls bullshit on a "celebrity" that comes in with a fucking attitude talking shit about something he obviously misread in the first place.

He gave his viewpoint. I don't think he was talking shit, but that's just my opinion. You may have misread the shit he was talking about. Perhaps you have serious comprehension issues, but I doubt it. It's a tough call though.

You did manage to trump his attitude, so you've got that going for you. Just sayin'. No, I'm not trying to "gang up" on you, just pointing out the obvious.

And some wonder why I talk trash!

Nah, being a troll is a popular internet phenomenon. I think you've explained your position very well, even if a lot of your arguments are wrong.

Best of luck to you.


sl

 

[PD9L]

LOL

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

Now tell me Chris, how did that help you learn ANYTHING about actually mixing something?

He and the others answered the question that I asked- giving some insight into working with the band during the mixing process. Granted its not earth-shattering stuff and not nearly as sexy as "peak boost 40-60 on a weak kick, but shelf everything below 30...", but its exactly what I was asking for: insights on working with the band.

Its as much a part of being a successful mixer as the mixing itself- I've lost clients over pitfalls I discovered with them. I thought it might be wise to ask around and see what others have run into so I don't have to run blindly into the same things.

Anyway, I've also discovered the joys of charging by the project- no easier way to take the pressure off the artist and relax while working. Haven't tried it with mixing, though, and I haven't worked out a good way to say "Its thi$ much for a song, but you can't call me to make changes twice a week for the next 6 months...OK?"

-C

 

[PD9L]

You know, mixing something for a price isn't always the best thing to do at a more "local" demo level. With more experienced artists, I am far more willing to approach it that way, but to the average run of the mill band who I KNOW is going to insist on doing bonehead things in the mix, it just doesn't pay! It is far easier for them to "accept" what they got when they are faced with paying for it again to fix THEIR mistakes in the mix.

Yeah, I would rather just set a price myself. But too often, you get burned with crappy bands doing things this way. You KNOW they are never going to be fully happy with it. No use going into the process with pretentions at all. I will spend as much time as they like on a per hour basis.

Myself, I just got tired of giving away hours of my time to products that were going nowhere. When I do contracting work, we talk about what is going to get done, and as long as my price isn't out of this world expensive, the homeowner gladly pays me what I ask to do that work! They sign a CONTRACT and if they want anything in addition, they KNOW they will be paying extra for that! That is how business should be done.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

P.S. Hello Bruce, long time...go Habs go!

Hey AV -- nice seeing you here!

Having some of the PSW crowd here to share their experience here is excellent.... now where's Wayne?!

 

[A Reel Person]

This is a cluster-fuck, if there ever was one!

.....................

 

[Gidge]

Trust me when I say: Dragon is not NEARLY smart enough to "orchestrate" a "debate" like this.

hes smart enuff, he just has better taste......unlike you.........

so you stalk and harass Bruce because you say he doesnt have the chops to back up his posts......are you saying Mixerman doesnt?......