Mixing / Mastering / Drum job for another group's song.

dastrick said:
Because of time restraints and to cut down on the mixing time, we didn't double track anything. Originally I was going to double track acoustic guitar and vocals, but it just didn't happen.

The acoustic gtr. was tracked with a Studio Projects B1 about 6 inches away from the soundhole and a Behringer C2 about 8 inches away from the 12th fret aimed towards the soundhole.
The electric is an SM57 against the grill of an amp.

Retracking the parts is not out of the question, but unlikely unless Poetic wants/needs me to do so.
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thx for the infos. i understand.
 
PoeticIntensity said:
Every time I post here, I secretly hope to get a "holy crap! This is perfect!" consensus
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That ^^^ made me smile, cause I definitely have some of that going on, and I bet if a lot of other people on here are honest about it, it's probably pretty common :) However...IMHO you are operating at a very high level with your mixes, and you are definitely in the realm where most critiques are just minor nits or personal preferences, so that's a very cool place to be. I bet if everyone just said "this is perfect" it would be a bit of a letdown...lol.

I listened to the three new mixes, and I don't have a strong preference. Mix 4 sounds clear and everything is articulate, but I still think I like the last mix with no spatializer and no chorus a little better overall...it just seems a little more natural/warm sounding to me, and things gel all together better, even though it doesn't sound quite as "pristine" or "separated" or something. I'd take Greg's advice and work on the snare in the last mix and see if getting that to pop a little more doesn't just make everything fall into place. Any of these mixes stand up well though. Great job, Jason. Also, I'm glad to hear things are working out with making this a full time gig...sweet!

Best,

Dave
SoundClick artist: Dave DeWhitt - page with MP3 music downloads
 
It must be what Im used to listening with my own stuff but I prefer the effects on (mix 1) :o

I dont have the ears to recognise anything that wrong with it
 
Greg_L said:
Listened to mix4 - no spatializer nor chorus:
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I'd be interested in your take on the difference between the last 3 mixes, if possible.

Greg_L said:
A nice clean snare crack is all this song needs to be ready.
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Thanks for the critique, Greg... I'd like to see if I can't get the snare to open up a bit more, but at this point, I've got other clients' stuff I'm working on. Good call, though.. Totally agree about the snare / sidestick comment, and I think the answer has to do with compression on the snare track being too high.

karumba said:
ok, as a basis, i like w/o spat and w/o chorus best. but i see that you would like to have more width+depth on the lead guitar (or on the track in general, since it sounds a little bit too "mono" to me). in that case, i would use a longer reverb (maybe 3s) and a stereo delay an the leadguitar. both FX should be leveled that you don't really hear them but when you switch them off it makes a difference. try also to bring it out just a very little of the center. e.g. 0.5-1dB (~10-20%) to the right could help.
the acoustic guitar: did you track/play it twice? if not, i would do so & pan it a little bit more outside, so you have some space. the distorted guitars in the refrain (played/tracked twice?), i would pan even more outside to give it an "open" effect in the refrain.
these are just some ideas you maybe like to try out.
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Thanks for your additional comments, Jan. Reverb and Stereo delay would probably do exactly what is needed for more stereo. Thanks for the suggestion, and I'll keep that in mind for future projects.

dastrick said:
Retracking the parts is not out of the question, but unlikely unless Poetic wants/needs me to do so.
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Sadly, probably not gonna happen at this point. Too much work coming in at the moment, but definitely a good idea to double those tracks.

dewhitt said:
That ^^^ made me smile, cause I definitely have some of that going on, and I bet if a lot of other people on here are honest about it, it's probably pretty common :) However...IMHO you are operating at a very high level with your mixes, and you are definitely in the realm where most critiques are just minor nits or personal preferences, so that's a very cool place to be. I bet if everyone just said "this is perfect" it would be a bit of a letdown...lol.

I listened to the three new mixes, and I don't have a strong preference. Mix 4 sounds clear and everything is articulate, but I still think I like the last mix with no spatializer and no chorus a little better overall...it just seems a little more natural/warm sounding to me, and things gel all together better, even though it doesn't sound quite as "pristine" or "separated" or something. I'd take Greg's advice and work on the snare in the last mix and see if getting that to pop a little more doesn't just make everything fall into place. Any of these mixes stand up well though. Great job, Jason. Also, I'm glad to hear things are working out with making this a full time gig...sweet!
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Thank you for your kind comments, Dave. The studio is doing well, and I'd be interested to see where it all ends up. Kind, sincere words do nothing but help. Thanks again, Dave.

PS - I tried to give everyone rep, but seems like I need to "spread it out" more. bah...
 
kcearl said:
wow my limited experience couldn't offer any advice on the mix like some of the above, even if I could hear it lol


Sounded good to me Jason...pretty clear and separated, nice levels and performance...
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Thanks for the listen, dude. When we gonna hear more of your sweet electronica?
 
not for a while mate (and thanks for the compliment)...I sold a load of kit on ebay this week because Im getting sick of it lying around and need some impetus to try something different, or at least go up a level...so Ive got some gear coming in and just tracked a song with traditional instruments...well guitar and bass anyway

Ill see if I can find the vocals for it and post it up...plus got a collab coming up soon with a couple of lousy talentless blokes from in here lol :D

Any news on the Radius yet?
 
PoeticIntensity said:
I'd be interested in your take on the difference between the last 3 mixes, if possible.
...
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I listened to all 4 mixes. Here's the deal: to me, I still say the "no spatializer no chorus" mix sounds the best. And funny enough, that mix seems to have the most space and the most natural sound. The others seem "spacious" but in an unnatural, odd way. It almost makes me feel queasy. It's like a very very subtle warble that's not quite noticeable, but you can tell something is off. It's no secret though that I'm not typically a fan of a bunch of extra processing stuff on the master bus. So I still vote for the "no spatializer nor chorus" mix. It's the most natural and ear pleasing to me.
 
Mix 4 is good. The other two no this & no that are good but not as "cohesive".
I do have to admit that I find the intro guitar off lead putting: the delay/fx added to the phrase - which to me sounds trunkated - just don't gell from my perspective.
REALLY good caprure & mix!
I'd agree with Greg's comment on the natural space of the No No but I like the other.
 
Jason, nice job. Well how about a third opinion. I like the one with chorus but no spatializer. The lead is playing such a slow soulful line, that to me, without something added it sounds a bit naked. The spatializer is causing some weird volume artifact that makes it sound a bit choppy to me. Also, the background electric that comes in at around 1:10 is hitting some great notes. Any way that can be brought forward a little more. I think it would add some impact to the song. Not necessarily turn it up, just give it more presence? At least that is what I hear.
 
I definitely like any of the Mix 4's better than the original. Mostly because the vocal sounds a little clearer and more defined. Unfortunately neither my ears nor my monitoring chain is good enough to really tell a difference between spatial, no spatial, chorus, no chorus. I can kind of pick up on the "warble" effect of Mix 4, but not a whole lot.


As a side note...the song was written specifically for a marriage conference that our church is hosting. I took the song to the radio station to be played underneath the advertisement and the guy at the radio station liked it and is going to try to get it played in a local spot during a nationally sydicated radio show on Sunday mornings. :D:D:D So that's pretty cool. :D

I had originally given him Mix3 (the first one), but I'm going to take him one of the Mix4's tomorrow. Now I just have to decide which one. :eek::eek::)
 
Ok. I've been straining my ears to try to hear it. It seems that you can really hear the difference spat/chorus & no spat/no chorus when everything is in. Like around 2:55. And at that point I definitely like the no spat/no chorus better than the spat/chorus. I still can't hear a difference in the spat/chorus and no spat/chorus.
 
kcearl said:
Any news on the Radius yet?
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Yeah, dude... I got it, and ended up taking a whole day off work (I never take days off work) just to learn it. I spent a solid 16 hours with it, and feel like I'm barely touching the tip of the iceberg. Since then, I've tinkered with it once or twice, and got some decent loops going, but I've still got a long way to go with it before I can get really creative with it. It's a monstrous tool, though. As soon as I get proficient with it, it's gonna be pumping out a lot of music.

Greg_L said:
I listened to all 4 mixes. Here's the deal: to me, I still say the "no spatializer no chorus" mix sounds the best. And funny enough, that mix seems to have the most space and the most natural sound. The others seem "spacious" but in an unnatural, odd way. It almost makes me feel queasy. It's like a very very subtle warble that's not quite noticeable, but you can tell something is off. It's no secret though that I'm not typically a fan of a bunch of extra processing stuff on the master bus. So I still vote for the "no spatializer nor chorus" mix. It's the most natural and ear pleasing to me.
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Thanks for the listen, Greg. I really appreciate your comments. You've got good ears. Next time, I'm gonna go the reverb / delay route instead of adding a chorus / spatializer.

rayc said:
Mix 4 is good. The other two no this & no that are good but not as "cohesive".
I do have to admit that I find the intro guitar off lead putting: the delay/fx added to the phrase - which to me sounds trunkated - just don't gell from my perspective.
REALLY good caprure & mix!
I'd agree with Greg's comment on the natural space of the No No but I like the other.
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Thanks for the listen, Ray!

guitar zero said:
Jason, nice job. Well how about a third opinion. I like the one with chorus but no spatializer. The lead is playing such a slow soulful line, that to me, without something added it sounds a bit naked. The spatializer is causing some weird volume artifact that makes it sound a bit choppy to me. Also, the background electric that comes in at around 1:10 is hitting some great notes. Any way that can be brought forward a little more. I think it would add some impact to the song. Not necessarily turn it up, just give it more presence? At least that is what I hear.
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Yeah, I really enjoy that 2nd rhythm guitar, too. If I had my druthers, I would have doubled it for more presence. Truth be told, I was under serious time constraints to get this done. I would have liked to spend another 3 to 4 hours mixing it, but - such is life, and all in all, I think it turned out pretty good.

dastrick said:
I definitely like any of the Mix 4's better than the original. Mostly because the vocal sounds a little clearer and more defined. Unfortunately neither my ears nor my monitoring chain is good enough to really tell a difference between spatial, no spatial, chorus, no chorus. I can kind of pick up on the "warble" effect of Mix 4, but not a whole lot.


As a side note...the song was written specifically for a marriage conference that our church is hosting. I took the song to the radio station to be played underneath the advertisement and the guy at the radio station liked it and is going to try to get it played in a local spot during a nationally sydicated radio show on Sunday mornings. :D:D:D So that's pretty cool. :D

I had originally given him Mix3 (the first one), but I'm going to take him one of the Mix4's tomorrow. Now I just have to decide which one. :eek::eek::)
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If there's any way for us to hear the radio broadcast, please let us know. I would *love* to hear it played! Also, yeah.. Mix 4 has quite a bit more done to the vocals (and everything else). I like mix 4 better, too.
 
The only thing I can add to what's been said is that when you collapse the "spaciallized" version to mono the balance of the instruments gets thrown off. Guitar parts tend to get a little more lost behind the vocal - and the vocal sits waaaay out front. The version without chorus and spacialstuff had a better balance in mono. My listening system wasn't good enough to detect any other issues with it.

I also thought the kick was too loud and I noticed a couple kicks that seemed slightly mis-timed.
 
TripleM said:
The only thing I can add to what's been said is that when you collapse the "spaciallized" version to mono the balance of the instruments gets thrown off. Guitar parts tend to get a little more lost behind the vocal - and the vocal sits waaaay out front. The version without chorus and spacialstuff had a better balance in mono. My listening system wasn't good enough to detect any other issues with it.

I also thought the kick was too loud and I noticed a couple kicks that seemed slightly mis-timed.
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Thanks, Triple. I don't think I've mono-checked this yet.. Good call. Also, the drums are far from perfect, but I hadn't noticed anything too crazy off. Got any clues as to which kicks were a bit too far off?
 
TripleM said:
The only thing I can add to what's been said is that when you collapse the "spaciallized" version to mono the balance of the instruments gets thrown off. Guitar parts tend to get a little more lost behind the vocal - and the vocal sits waaaay out front. The version without chorus and spacialstuff had a better balance in mono. My listening system wasn't good enough to detect any other issues with it.

I also thought the kick was too loud and I noticed a couple kicks that seemed slightly mis-timed.
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Thanks, Triple. I don't think I've mono-checked this yet.. Good call. Also, the drums are far from perfect, but I hadn't noticed anything too crazy off. Got any clues as to which kicks were a bit too far off?
 
Really liked mix 4 with no/no better. Takes a good engineer to make an sm58 sound THAT nice imho! Good job man, double tracking the rythym guitar would have been really nice... I understand you couldnt.... but I can TASTE it! lol... kudos on the new venture! might have to hit you up someday...

BTW, my ears might be playing tricks on me... I really like the version you have on your website under clients but I cant figure out which mix it is ;) oh well...
 
I liked the version on the clients page as well...sounded nice and full.

I'm no mixing expert, or even novice really...so that's all I have to offer :/
 
PoeticIntensity said:
Thanks, Triple. I don't think I've mono-checked this yet.. Good call. Also, the drums are far from perfect, but I hadn't noticed anything too crazy off. Got any clues as to which kicks were a bit too far off?
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When the drummer was doing double-kicks - there is one at :38 and another at :58. The one at :58 isn't so bad. But that one at :38 bugged me. There was a late one at around 1:26. Another late one at 2:48.
 
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