Mixing Lead Vocal Hard L & R?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BigEZ
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BigEZ

The Devil Has Blue Eyes
Hi all,

I was tracking my acoustic with a Sonar insert called Channel Tools which can split the stereo channel hard left and right. Had a little reverb on there as well. I got bored so I started messing around singing while playing acoustic and I thought the vocal sound was very cool...like a chorus effect but better with so much depth.

What I'm wondering is this. Everyone says to send lead vox right up the middle, but if I wanted to try something like this, how would I do it to make it stand out in the mix? Would I mix everything else closer to the middle and only keep the vox hard left and right? I.e. Drums and bass up the middle, distorted guitars around 25 and acoustics around 50?

Thanks,
 
If you pan the same source hard left AND right by splitting/doubling....that's the same as dead center.

Usually it's the center elements that will stand out in the mix. Things panned hard L/R tend to feel more pulled back.
 
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Experiment. Try it. See how it sounds to you. How would you make a lead vocal stand out ordinarilly ?
 
miroslav said:
If you pan the same source hard left AND right by splitting/doubling....that's the same as dead center.

Usually it's the center elements that will stand out in the mix. Things panned hard L/R tend to feel more pulled back.
Click to expand...

So alternatively, if I do this with my acoustic guitar I'm not moving it off the center of the mix to give room for the vocals? I have been splitting my acoustic tracks using Channel Tools to use less tracks as opposed to having two separate tracks with each panned hard to either side.
 
RokZtaR said:
I have been splitting my acoustic tracks using Channel Tools...
Click to expand...


I'm not sure what you mean by this?

Splitting what...a single guitar track...or a *true* stereo track, recorded with a stereo mic pair?


Splitting a single guitar track and panning hard L/R is not going to do anything...the guitar will still be heard dead center.
Splitting a true stereo track and panning hard L/R is pointless since a stereo track is already L/R.

And what's the need/concern for "less tracks"...? What do you think your saving/achieving...?

Why don't you explain what you are trying to actually do with your production instead of just focusing on splitting tracks hard L/R? I mean, like grimtraveller said...just experiment, no need to ask first if it's OK ;) however, you need to understand certain things about the actions you take, like trying to split/pan a track will NOT make it sound L/R...it will only make it sound louder because you know have 2x the original track.

Also...if you double track or record one source with two mics...watch the possible phase issues when panning or when combining...but again, experiment and let your ears be your guide.
 
Well there's the case with The Beatles that had hard panned vocals. On the original 1970 recording of Jesus Christ Superstar, if there was more than one singer per song, each singer would be panned opposite of each other. It wasn't hard panning, but something like 50%. Considering by 1970 the norm had become centered lead vocals, it was cool. Hearing Murray Head and Ian Gillan on opposite sides of the stereo field arguing with epic rock vocals was pretty badass.
 
Miroslav,

To explain further, lets say I record a mono acoustic guitar track, then convert it to a stereo track in my DAW, then use this Channel Tools insert to split one track hard L&R, this isn't actually clearing the center for vocals? I believe what you're saying is that the only way to do this properly is to have two separate tracks and pan each to either side?

Let me also say that once I insert Channel Tools on the ONE track and split to each side, it definitely sounds like it's two tracks panned to each side. The track sounds right up the middle before the insert.

I am trying to have less tracks to save CPU and memory usage.

Thanks,
 
I was tracking my acoustic with a Sonar insert called Channel Tools which can split the stereo channel hard left and right.
Click to expand...
To explain further, lets say I record a mono acoustic guitar track , then convert it to a stereo track in my DAW, then use this Channel Tools insert to split one track hard L&R, this isn't actually clearing the center for vocals?
Click to expand...

What's foremost is that if the information on both sides of a 'stereo' channel is the same- it is exactly the same as mono.

Which function are you using in the Channel Tool to make the two sides different?
 
Right...splitting anything mono to "pseudo stereo" and panning...achieives nothing more than a level increase.

There has to be a *difference* between the two tracks...like actually playing the part twice, or using a stereo mic rig...
...or at worst case, applying some some delay and FX to one of the tracks...
...otherwise the panning will have NO effect on two, same tracks.
 
I know when I listened to some Deep Purple albums, I noticed that while on headphones, the dry vocal would come out panned slightly one side, but the delay came out the opposite side. It was just subtle enough to have never noticed it when listening on speakers, it sounded center to me.
 
I believe channel tools causes a slight delay in one side, which is why you are hearing a stereo effect. Like Miroslav said, if you use the exact same track and split it left and right, you haven't acomplished anything. Try this. Copy one track to a second track and move it a few miliseconds off the original. Now you"ll hear a stereo effect. The longer the delay (within reason) the more the stereo effect. I use this with vocals depending on the song. It can give a vocal track a kind of etheral effect if that fit's the song.
 
Washburn100 said:
I believe channel tools causes a slight delay in one side, which is why you are hearing a stereo effect. Like Miroslav said, if you use the exact same track and split it left and right, you haven't acomplished anything. Try this. Copy one track to a second track and move it a few miliseconds off the original. Now you"ll hear a stereo effect. The longer the delay (within reason) the more the stereo effect. I use this with vocals depending on the song. It can give a vocal track a kind of etheral effect if that fit's the song.
Click to expand...

One of the things in the Channel Tool slice an' dice menu is easy to dial in very small delay increments for alignment. But I'd be surprised if it did anything if it wasn't asked to ..like nothing.
 
Delay of a vocal is more of an effect than a stereo sort of thing. It does provide space, but it makes things strange. I'd rather have the vocal dead center and add a slap back delay, or have both vocals dead center and have one delayed and pulled down in the mix to add some depth. This will be more natural, and less of a strange effect than delaying when panned. Both work, it just depends on what you're going for.
 
Not familiar with Sonar or Channel Tools, but I'm guessing that this puts a delay on one side which is what is making it seem like two separate tracks to your ears. This is called 'doubling'.
 
mjbphotos said:
Not familiar with Sonar or Channel Tools, but I'm guessing that this puts a delay on one side which is what is making it seem like two separate tracks to your ears. This is called 'doubling'.
Click to expand...

Washburn100 said:
I believe channel tools causes a slight delay in one side, which is why you are hearing a stereo effect. Like Miroslav said, if you use the exact same track and split it left and right, you haven't acomplished anything. Try this. Copy one track to a second track and move it a few miliseconds off the original. Now you"ll hear a stereo effect. The longer the delay (within reason) the more the stereo effect. I use this with vocals depending on the song. It can give a vocal track a kind of etheral effect if that fit's the song.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:
;)

a) Insert the tools' thing
b) Nothing happens

Why do OP's abandon their threads?
 
Been away for awhile. So, if I don't have stereo mics...which I don't...what would you suggest I do with my acoustic? I have the capability to record with an SDC on the neck and an LDC on the sound hole at the same time and could pan these L & R...or I could record the track twice with just the SDC and pan L & R. It is a relatively busy mix so I think I could get away with just the SDC on the neck. Basically I would like to get the acoustic out of the way of the vocal in the sound field. What would you suggest as the best way to do this?

Thanks,

ROK
 
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