LeeRosario
New member
ez_willis
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does anybody have circuits laying around their desk on perfboard that they are mixing on?
Half of the users in the Analog Forum.
And as a side note, I am still shocked to see the level of activity that forum gets. Seriously. Analog?
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XLR
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Gearslutz IS the technical standard.
NL5
Unpossible!
mshilarious
Banned
Further to that, most modern outboard reverbs are running algos on internal processors = fancy computer. Those in the know will say the DSP required would make a PC cry, plus the makers aren't stupid enough to release their proprietary algos in VST format where they can be easily stolen. All good points, but some will "mix" "OTB" so they can use their digital outboard . . .
ez_willis
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mshilarious
Banned
It's a computer, just not very fancy. Like an HD24 can store but it can't mix.
LeeRosario
New member
Sure, we can create a definition that requires analog summing. But once you drift into the debate, some people feel what's important is the workflow on a console, not analog summing. That could be a digital console. Others feel that analog summing in and of itself does not distinguish a mix, you have to have the entire signal chain of the console.
Like I said, Gearslutz thread
And isn't everything in a box anyway? I mean, does anybody have circuits laying around their desk on perfboard that they are mixing on?
I think this is more the point I wanted to make
Good call.man and I was about to bust out an old 9000J manual I had...get all bill nye in these piece. Probably risk getting yelled at and everything.
I guess I'm realy just a big fan of analog gear. So I admit I have a bias bordering on "digital racism". Preamps and summing debates aside, I can't remember a day when a digital plug-in or process really made me laugh with joy cause it sounded so good.
Just something about that (insert gearslutz thread romantic novel about analog circuitry and how badass it sounds) analog that gets me every time.
Gearslutz thread averted.
ez_willis
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agreed .
NL5
Unpossible!
I got 5 bible sized books laid out and nothing in here has a wtf-to-duh converter. No way I'm opening that can-o-worms.
I've been migraine free 3 days now.
I'll just go with the "digital and analog in a marriage of perfect harmony and sunshine is the way to go" answer.
I guess you lost me here.
There is no way to make 1+1 not = 10 in ANY digital device. DAW Apps sound different for MANY MANY reasons, none of which have anything to do with summing. Summing is simple addition. Think back to kindergarten - remember "finding the sum"? The beauty of math is that it's universal. You really cannot change that fact. There are tons of threads proving this with null tests, or are you one of those "just because it nulls, they are NOT the same crowd".
Like I said, what constitutes "ITB" could be debated forever. Almost everybody is doing some sort of Hybrid system. Unless you have 2", a console, and outboard or are strictly digital with just plugins and no outboard, you have a hybrid system. I agree too, that is the best way to go (at least for me
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noisewreck
New member
That's what conventional wisdom gives you, but I disagree with this somewhat. Even though analog by definition means that you are dealing with continuous signals, it doesn't mean that those signals don't get distorted in some usually nonlinear way in the analog domain. What about adding tape hiss and wow and flutter? How about the frequency nonlinearity of tape in general?
So, I don't think analog will give you the complete picture either, just because the picture will be distorted in some way or another.
Now, whether one likes pixellated vs. oversaturated pictures... I suppose that's where the debate is
NL5
Unpossible!
What?!?!?!
What about all those fancy light, and buttons, and knobs, and levers?1!?!?!?!?
My computer is literally a black box with two tiny lights. I'm sure yours looks way cooler.
mshilarious
Banned
Gearslutz thread averted.
Here's how to avert the 500 page GS thread:
- People who choose to mix all analog and can't produce a decent track suck.
- People who choose to mix all digital and can't produce a decent track suck.
- People who use a hybrid approach and can't produce a decent track suck.
- People who think anybody who doesn't use the same approach as they do sucks suck.
- You suck.
- I suck.
- GS sucks.
That about covers it, I think . . .
LeeRosario
New member
I guess you lost me here.
There is no way to make 1+1 not = 10 in ANY digital device. DAW Apps sound different for MANY MANY reasons, none of which have anything to do with summing. Summing is simple addition. Think back to kindergarten - remember "finding the sum"? The beauty of math is that it's universal. You really cannot change that fact. There are tons of threads proving this with null tests, or are you one of those "just because it nulls, they are NOT the same crowd".
Like I said, what constitutes "ITB" could be debated forever. Almost everybody is doing some sort of Hybrid system. Unless you have 2", a console, and outboard or are strictly digital with just plugins and no outboard, you have a hybrid system. I agree too, that is the best way to go (at least for me
my bad, I was trying to go with the 1+1=10 joke thing...I'm bad at internet comedy.
But yeah, that's all insanely true. I mean how many summing threads are out in the world...like I said, I didn't wanna be the one blow open another summing crusade.
Cause by the time we get to A/D converters and aliasing and all this doo doo that kills good audio, even crickets wouldn't touch this thread with a 10 foot poll.
Keeping it simple for our esteemed readers out there. Times like this makes me wish I had a bad ass studio to invite yall over and we'd do the experiments for ourselves.
LeeRosario
New member
damn, too bad I can't spread good reputation around. You just earned the "perfect gearslutz summary award for 2009.
NL5
Unpossible!
Ummmm, I wasn't joking. It's a fact.
But yeah, that's all insanely true. I mean how many summing threads are out in the world...like I said, I didn't wanna be the one blow open another summing crusade.
Cause by the time we get to A/D converters and aliasing and all this doo doo that kills good audio, even crickets wouldn't touch this thread with a 10 foot poll.
Keeping it simple for our esteemed readers out there. Times like this makes me wish I had a bad ass studio to invite yall over and we'd do the experiments for ourselves.
Yeah, I kind of sidetracked the debate from analog vs. digital, to digital vs digital. You could argue all day about A vs D, but in the end, it's all subjective. My only point was that digital summing is all the same. You cannot add two numbers together in one computer, and do the same in another and get a different answer unless there is something VERY wrong with one of them.
And, at the risk of being ridiculed, I own a Trident 80, but sum digitally!
LeeRosario
New member
And, at the risk of being ridiculed, I own a Trident 80, but sum digitally!
are you NUTS?! you own a trident and you're wasting time typing in HERE?!
Nah, don't feel bad. Chris Lord Alge apparently still mixes from this ancient digital 80s to early 90s mulitrack recorder that makes a mix system look like a 2009 BMW. Unless you figured out a way to turn a commadore 64 into a commercial grade DAW, you're uber set.
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