mixing distorted guitars

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kcearl

kcearl

I see deaf people
does anyone have any advice on mixing distorted guitars


I find mixing a guitar in with my normal stuff pretty easy but Ive recorded a track with around four or five guitar parts and even though Ive EQd them and panned them they just seem to "bleed" all over each other with distortion

Ive tracked them as well as I can and just when I thought i had the distortion level right I turned it down some...

Is there any tips on mixing these?? as my first attempts are getting a veritable Phil Spector wall of mud thing going on :D
 
Try this

Highpass 100-150 Hz
Dip/cut at 1.5 K (Q 1.00)
Low pass (Roll of highs at 5 K 0r 10 K)

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Another way

Highpass guitar untill you like the sound
Boost at 2K and 10 K

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If you have access to a Saturation plugin I would add that as your first plugin for the guitar...I find it helps to cut through the mix a bit better.

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Also helps if you treat each track a bit different

If you have two Rhythm tracks playing same thing I would perhaps compress one track and not the other.

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I also find it helps if you add a compression plugin on master and mix through that...I also add saturation plugin before comp on master.
 
Ive tracked them as well as I can...

Maybe yes and maybe no. I've felt that many times myself, only to do better the next time around. Getting the best source sounds is extremely important. I've found that for me, "the best" is a sliding scale.

Can you post some samples in the Clinic? Kind of tough to offer advice having not heard what you're dealing with.
 
Forgot to mention split harmonizer...I use it on lead guitar and sometimes Rhythm.

Settings I use are

- 12 cents 14 ms delay 100% mix
+ 12 cents 19 ms delay 100% mix

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I add harmonizer as a send effect and adjust how much is sent to get the sound I want then I re adjust guitar volume to blend.

This plugin really helps to seperate lead guitar tracks

Free plugin is here...Try it out...It works on vocals as well.

http://www.brothersoft.com/split-har...ad-295423.html
 
Thanks for the answers so far guys

Im not too bad at mixing and I havent really started this one Im just asking one of those n00b shortcut questions as I can tell by my very rough initial mix Im going to have a tough time

I know there's no formula and its ears i should be using I just though if its a general rule to cut mids or anything

Maybe yes and maybe no. I've felt that many times myself, only to do better the next time around. Getting the best source sounds is extremely important. I've found that for me, "the best" is a sliding scale.

Can you post some samples in the Clinic? Kind of tough to offer advice having not heard what you're dealing with.

seriously these are as good as Im going to track...Im rather a basic guitarist ans generally its so buried or such a small part it isnt noticed

there are no more than fives chords in my songs, and tracking them isnt the most difficult lol

Ill stick up a mix as soon as I get one as possibly individual tracks wont highlight that sea of mud Im foreseeing :o
 
The best way to do it IMO is to start with different sounds. If you have the same guitar through the same amp settings played the same way, then yeah, it's gonna sound goofy. If you can, use different guitars to start with. Secondly, play the same parts differently. Maybe bang powerchords on one track and open chords on another. Or play the powerchords in different octaves. I do that all the time and it works. Third, if you can, use different amps or amp sims. And probably the most often overlooked part of tracking distorted guitars is - turn the gain down.

Panning and some variety in sound is gonna be the cleanest route. Then you can go tweaking things in the mix if necessary.
 
Gerg stole my answer.

different guitars and amps. if they are sims use a different sim.

If your using an amp sim and have no other guitars at your disposal one trick i learned tha tcan make it hella intrsting is if you record one track with the treble switch on, do a doube track with the switch in the rhythm postion and tweak your amp or amp sim back to to get it soundind like the other track. It wont be identical but you'll have a different sound to play with.

IF your micing, you can use a different mic as well. OR just shift it a little to get a bit different dynamic.


And yes, gain is pain. It records alot differently then it sounds to you ear.


Keep it tuned down. and when it's turned down, crank it back a slight notch further. Youll almost be there.



There are great answers here, but before you get tweaking too much on the post production side try to get the best possible sound on its way in. You'll thank yourself later.
 
yup I used three guitars and different amps (software)

Im going to try and get something together mixed to post because I could just be imagining it as normally my synth stuff is so clean...it might just be that its a bit of a dirty mix....


it certainly doesnt sound anywhere near as clean as some reference tracks Ive used...Muse, Stone Temple Pilots :(
 
KC, all our past disagreements put aside, a couple of serious options here:

Have you considered that maybe five distorted guitar parts are simply too much? It's hard enough to mix five simultaneous *clean* guitar parts, but five distorted parts is almost the very definition of mud, depending upon the arrangement.

First, I'd sit down and listen and make some difficult decisions about just which guitars you actually need to truly get the sound you're wanting. Less is often more. The two options there are either deciding to drop a guitar track or two altogether, or mixing them in such a way where you're using only emphasizing or using the best parts of each track at the best times, instead of a solid wall of everything all the time.

G.
 
KC, all our past disagreements put aside, a couple of serious options here:

Have you considered that maybe five distorted guitar parts are simply too much? It's hard enough to mix five simultaneous *clean* guitar parts, but five distorted parts is almost the very definition of mud, depending upon the arrangement.

First, I'd sit down and listen and make some difficult decisions about just which guitars you actually need to truly get the sound you're wanting. Less is often more. The two options there are either deciding to drop a guitar track or two altogether, or mixing them in such a way where you're using only emphasizing or using the best parts of each track at the best times, instead of a solid wall of everything all the time.

G.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Four guitar tracks at the same volume usually turns out to be a mess in my mixes.
I usually start with my main rhythm guitars (one Left and one Right panned accordingly.) EQ them both slightly different just so they get out of each others way instead of piling up on top of each other. Then I do the same thing for the second set of guitars. I turn all of the faders down on the second set and then bring them back up slowly until I get the desired amount of fullness.
 
I think we can all agree that sounds must be different to get better relationships between the parts when recording distorted guitar...But what I really think is the most important track is the rhythm guitar. Even though you might not want to hear it as much as the leads, you really want to feel it in the mix and don't want it to be worked out of it. I find it works well when doubling rhythm tracks with the same amp settings and take out anything really below about 75hz. Then I record another rhythm track and put it right down the center but back off the level a bit. Then Eq it with much more bass . I find it really helps bring the part out when I add on my leads.
 
Im not keen on doubling parts...but after working on it a bit its sounding better but it took some pretty drastic EQing :(

dunno where it'll end up...cant seem to finish a song for toffee at the moment
 
KC, all our past disagreements put aside, a couple of serious options here:

Have you considered that maybe five distorted guitar parts are simply too much? It's hard enough to mix five simultaneous *clean* guitar parts, but five distorted parts is almost the very definition of mud, depending upon the arrangement.

First, I'd sit down and listen and make some difficult decisions about just which guitars you actually need to truly get the sound you're wanting. Less is often more. The two options there are either deciding to drop a guitar track or two altogether, or mixing them in such a way where you're using only emphasizing or using the best parts of each track at the best times, instead of a solid wall of everything all the time.

G.


In truth Glen they werent all playing at the same time....but yeah it was probably a little ambitious, it was the build up at the end where i tried to pull everything together for the last chorus and fade out

Like I said Im totally comfortable mixing my regular style but once i introduce a few guitar tracks and a real bass my limitations start to show pretty quickly

Im going to retrack two of the parts or just drop them...not sure if the project has enough oomph to keep me interested to the end but thanks for being civil..
 
This thread is a prime example why I don't bother with geetars altogether :D
 
Yo KC..I know it's pretty much been covered but wanted to throw my 2c in cuz ya made me read all that. :p

:D

I've become a big fan of the double tracking and only recently started using octave chords on one track with the regular chords on the other. Not always but in places it's fuller to my ears.

And I keep my gain turned back more than I normally would. Like if my live setting is 8, tracking will be like 6 or 6 1/2.

Often, I'll switch to neck instead of bridge pups if it needs some fatness.

And I'll usually cut the lows from around 100 hz down depending on what I hear.

Happy Friday dude. :drunk:
 
There is a distinct possibility the guitars were recorded with too much gain, too much mid scoop, and possibly too dark. You're using software sims, do you have the naked DI? can you still fiddle with the settings, or do you own these tracks as recorded? I have found I can get some throatiness out of overly fizzy guitars with a multiband compressor, might be worth a try as a band-aid.
 
Yo KC..I know it's pretty much been covered but wanted to throw my 2c in cuz ya made me read all that. :p

:D

I've become a big fan of the double tracking and only recently started using octave chords on one track with the regular chords on the other. Not always but in places it's fuller to my ears.

And I keep my gain turned back more than I normally would. Like if my live setting is 8, tracking will be like 6 or 6 1/2.

Often, I'll switch to neck instead of bridge pups if it needs some fatness.

And I'll usually cut the lows from around 100 hz down depending on what I hear.

Happy Friday dude. :drunk:

Its pretty fat (I think) just when one guitar comes in it sucks the energy out of everything....geez I prefer synths ;)

Thanks man :)

There is a distinct possibility the guitars were recorded with too much gain, too much mid scoop, and possibly too dark. You're using software sims, do you have the naked DI? can you still fiddle with the settings, or do you own these tracks as recorded? I have found I can get some throatiness out of overly fizzy guitars with a multiband compressor, might be worth a try as a band-aid.

yeah I tried to be careful with the gain...but maybe two tracks still have too much


when I use amp sims I try to stay away from presets as they seem to sound great on their own but then just muddy everything up together..I just plug in an amp and take it from there


if anything its a learning curve...Im also using electronic drums and having two kick samples fights the bass more than "acoustic" drums, so that doesnt help


well Im here to learn :)
 
Excellent posts from Greg and Glen.

Im not keen on doubling parts...but after working on it a bit its sounding better but it took some pretty drastic EQing :(

Honestly, it's almost shocking how much double-tracking a guitar part can do for the richness of the sound. This was the single-biggest improvement in all my long history as a low-budget recording neophyte, even bigger than moving from a mic into a 1/4"-1/8" converter straight into my computer's soundcard to a proper firewire interface. Done right, two separate takes can sound way bigger in concert than either of them on its own turned up to the same volume.

It's tough to say why, but someone around here (I forget who, sorry!) once theorized something that made a lot of sense to me. Basically, we're used to "hearing" a guitar in the room, where it's reflecting off the walls and floor and reaching us (where we pick it up from two separate sources, hard left and hard right) at ever-so-slightly different times, with ever-so-slightly different room coloration. Doubletracking, especially if you vary up the tone a bit between takes (say, a bit gainier and heavy on the mids left, and a little cleaner and brighter and not quite as mid-heavy on the right), more closely replicates the way our ears perceive the sound of a guitar in real life.

A couple caveats - one, to do this right, you really need to be pretty damned tight of a rhythm guitarist. This is especially true if you're going for something more adventuresome like quad-tracking your rhythm parts (kind of the modern metal standard these days), where even slight inconsistencies start to snowball into one big muddy mess.

Personally, I rarely use more than two tracks for one simple reason - I write instrumental guitar music, and another guitar will be handling all the melody duties, as opposed to a human voice. I don't WANT a huge wall-of-sound guitar tone, because I need to leave ample room for the melody/solo guitar. So, I guess that's caveat #2 - consider your ultimate objective when you're thinking about the "size" of the guitar part, as in a dense mix a smaller but better-fitting guitar will sound as big if not bigger than a huge sounding guitar.

Caveat #3 is related - this depends on arrangement of course, but generally its worth thinking of the bass guitar as part of the guitar sound. So, you often don't want a ton of low end in your rhythm parts (and I say this as a seven string player, no less) because really the bass will need to be holding down that range. Likewise, you should also try to get a handle on where most of the "energy" is coming from your bass guitar sound, and leave some space there in the guitars - maybe a few EQ notch cuts where the bass really seems to poke out, etc. A huge, deep, super-bass-heavy guitar sound will sound massive on its own, but will just be a nightmare when you try to bring in a bass and a kick. This is only partly about post-processing, too - a lot of it is how you dial your amp and mic up. Why crank your bass up on your amp, if you're just going to have to strip most of that away eventually to get it to play nice with the bass?

Caveat #4 - it's becoming a bit of a cliche, but remember that when you're doubling, if you want clarity you probably need less gain than you think. Again, two doubled tracks will sound much "bigger" than either one on its own, and adding gain tends to compress the guitar, robbing it of a bit of its dynamics. Taken too far this can be a problem, but it's worth experimenting with. Likewise, the guitar is a midrange instrument, and scooping the living shit out of your mids will leave your guitars sounding hollow, empty, anemic, and generally nonexistent in the mix. So, sort of another variation on the theme of "evaluate your guitars in the context of the full mix (including other guitars) rater than how they sound as solo'd takes."

I'm rambling - hopefully some of this helps. :)
 
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