mixing, bussing, & mutlitrack recording

[o-ron]

I'm looking into hopefully eventually being able to simultaneously record 4 (mono) tracks on my computer recording system, and I'm now looking ino a mixer (instead of borrowing my brother's mackie all the time).

I've been looking at a few 8 and 12 channel mixers which would seem sufficient for my use - and most of them have 2 or 3 or sometimes 4 busses. Now I'm really new to this, so I'll just get my questions out of the way.
Busses:
I'm assuming this means I can rout any combination of input tracks to a particular bus, and then have that bus as an output for my recording equipment, right? Now, is a buss usually a stereo channel? In other words, would a 2-bus output really be 4 physical jacks (LR1, LR2)?

Also, As far as monitoring, aside from listening to what's going through on the recording equipment, is there any way to hear the output of the mixer with a headphone jack on the mixer? (how would this compare with the bus mix?)

Thanks!!

 

[BrettB]

No, sorry, busses are mono. If you want a stereo bus, just pan one left and the other right and link them.

Most mixers have a monitor out, so that isn't a problem either.

 

[Dolemite]

Do you have a brother named En-ron?

 

[Track Rat]

How about L-Ron?

 

[o-ron]

"No, sorry, busses are mono. If you want a stereo bus, just pan one left and the other right and link them. "

Ok, let's say i get an 8-channel mixer, and i have 8 mics in each (hypothetically). I then want to down-mix those 8 mics into 4 mono channels (and not necessarily 2 mics per channel - 1 channel may have 1 mic, another may have 2 or 3) and then have the mixer output those 4 discrete channels to my recorder.

Is this possible? What should I be looking for in terms of specs for a mixer that will do this? A mixer with a 2+2 bus - what does that mean?

I know these are bonehead questions, but i'll never know unless i ask!

Thanks!

 

[Track Rat]

I'll give you a hypothetical situation. You have a drum set you want to record. Kick drum mic plugs into channel 1 on the mixer. You find the the channel 1 insert point and grab signal there and send that to track one on your recorder. Snare drum mic goes to channel 2. Find the channel 2 insert point and grab signal there to send to track 2. Now you have two rack toms and a floor tom and you have a mic on each one plus two overhead mics for a total of five mics. Those you make a sub mix of and assign to sub groups 1 and 2 which you patch to tracks 3 and 4 of your recorder. Do you get the picture? I'm anticipating your next question; what is a channel insert? A channel insert is designed primarily for two things. First is to provide a point to "insert" a device like a compressor or and EQ on one individual mixer channel. The other purpose is a place where you can steal signal from an individual channel to, among other things, send it to a multi track recording device. The inserts are usually configured right after the mic preamp/ trim controll and before the EQ/Fader section of a channel strip. These are VERY handy things to have.

 

[o-ron]

wait, so let me get this straight, the "insert" is actually a signal output from tha one particular mixer channel?

This is great. The example that comes to mind for my next recording gig would be the following setup:

1 lead vocal (1 solo mic)
1 guitar (1 or 2 solo mics picking up amp)
1 bass guitar (1 solo mic picking up amp)
1 drum kit (3 or 4 mics picking up various parts)

Now, i would want to mix these to 4 separate mono tracks (1 for each performer/instrument) and record those simultaneously.

All effects (except possible compressor) will be added post-facto with my software.

Eventually I might get to the point where i will do multitracking where I add tracks layer by layer at a time, but for now this is all that is needed by the performers i'm recording (these people wouldn't be comfortable enough with laying down 1 instrument track at a time).

THANKS!

 

[Track Rat]

The insert is actually an in and an out on a stereo connector, one side is the send and the other side is the recieve but you can utilize the send portion of this setup as a direct channel out. Sounds like you're starting to get your arms around the concept though.

 

[PowerCouple]

Wich Mackie you borrowed?

The vlz1202PRO lets you track separatelt up to 8 tracks!

Peace...

PC

 

[o-ron]

the vlz1202PRO has 8 channel bus outputs??

 

[PowerCouple]

nope

Didn't said that...

Just use the 4 inserts on the rear till you reach the first "click", don't plug em full inside...there you have the first 4 channels.

Then use Alt outputs 1&2 on the rear and mute channels 5&6 in the mixer and pan nº 5 hard left and nº 6 hard right...there you go with channels 5&6 (if you mute them, the signal is routed to the alt outputs...)

Then you can assign tracks 7&8 to the master output and pan 7 hard L and 8 hard R and use the main output for each of them... you have tracks 7 & 8...you still have a Cue Mix output...

good routing can help!

Peace...

PC

 

[o-ron]

I've found the older 1202VLZ on Ebay for quite a considerably good price - the best of anything for what I'm looking at.

However, would I be missing big improvements between it and the 1202VLZ-PRO? Also, this mixer doesn't have slider bars - i've never used a mixer w/out fader bars - is it a nuisance to not have them?

Thanks!

 

[o-ron]

one more bone-head question...

I presume it is possible to plug in mics into the stereo channel inputs, however:
1. do these channels provide phantom power
2. do you lose mic pre-amp quality on these channels
3. or maybe this isn't possible at all

??

THANKS!

 

[PowerCouple]

Oh...I was talking about the VLZ1202PRO...

I know it doesn't have faders, but the friend from whom I borrowed it once, got used fast to the knobs. It's a small price for the other features...

Channels 1 to 4 they all have phantom power and cool preamps...

5 to 8 you can use dymamic mics or guitars, bass, keybs...

Peace...

PC

 

[pratt]

Re: one more bone-head question...

I presume it is possible to plug in mics into the stereo channel inputs, however:
1. do these channels provide phantom power
2. do you lose mic pre-amp quality on these channels
3. or maybe this isn't possible at all

unfortunately - you presume wrong - the stereo channel inputs on that board (1202VLZpro) do not have preamps and since they don't have XLR connections - they don't have phantom power - only channels 1-4 of that board have preamps.

If you want more to use more mics than 4 - you'd have to get an external preamp and route the signal into the mono side of one of those stereo channels

 

[o-ron]

can anyone recommend some mixers that are in the 10-14 channel range, but have mainly mic preamps as opposed to having half or more dedicated to stereo line ins?

For example, the perfect combination for myself would be 8 xlr mic inputs, and 2 stereo inputs, thus creating a 12 channel mixer.

Anything like that out there?

Thanks

 

[cbcbd]

I would say that the Mackie 1604VLZ would be a good bet for you. It has 16 mono channels, 4 busses, and it has direct outs for channels 1-8.
Another good board is the 1642VLZ. Main differences are this one has 10 mono channels and 2 stereo channels. It also has 4 busses and direct outs for channels 1-8. It has 2 less Aux sends.

Having the direct outs is good to have because in the future you might want to record to more than 4 tracks at once (fyi: you have channels on a mixer, you have tracks on a recorder).

Quick reference:
Direct Out - Are usually post-fader and post-eq (this means that the signal leaving is affected by the channel fader and eq). The connection used is usually 1/4" balanced or unbalanced.
Inserts - Are usually pre-fader and pre-eq (the signal leaving from here is not affected by anything done to the channel fader or eq). The connection used is 1/4" TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve) - One section of the connection sends the signal the other receives it back - it's mostly used for sending a signal out to processing (FX, Compression, etc) right as it enters the mixer.

Good luck,
CBCBD

 

[Downside Studio]

Re: nope

Just use the 4 inserts on the rear till you reach the first "click", don't plug em full inside...there you have the first 4 channels.

Then use Alt outputs 1&2 on the rear and mute channels 5&6 in the mixer and pan nº 5 hard left and nº 6 hard right...there you go with channels 5&6 (if you mute them, the signal is routed to the alt outputs...)

Then you can assign tracks 7&8 to the master output and pan 7 hard L and 8 hard R and use the main output for each of them... you have tracks 7 & 8...you still have a Cue Mix output...

LOL, and there you have the essence of homerecording