mixing at the right time

  • Thread starter Thread starter dobro
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dobro

dobro

Well-known member
About ten days ago, I was listening to some stuff I'd recorded, and I could quite plainly hear what was wrong with it. There I was in the morning, sipping my coffee, listening to what I'd recorded the previous week or so, and it just sorta jumped out at me. Boxy acoustic guitar sound. Yuk. I made a note to myself right then and there, didn't I? Note to self: deal with it.

So tonight I sit down and listen to 28 songs I've recorded. Intellectually, I knew what was wrong with some of them, because of the understanding I'd gained 10 days earlier. But it was much more difficult to *hear* it.

Conclusion: hearing what's going on in a mix is like a window that opens when the time is right, and you better be paying attention, taking notes, and making the appropriate adjustments, because it might not be coming around on the wheel of time and events anytime soon.

Anybody have this experience?
 
Sure! It happens consistently if you try to mix immediately after tracking... you simply can't do it.

Ears adjust to (or get used to) the sound of something so if your normal frame of reference gets skewed, your mix can be off... this is why it's important to keep a mix reference going while you mix to keep your ears "grounded"!


Bruce
 
Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about - you're talking about losing reference points in the heat of battle.

But I'm talking about 'not hearing and comprehending the same thing' ten days down the line.

Maybe we're talking about two variations of the same phenomenon. There's another big word - phenomenon.
 
Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees. It helps me to listen to stuff a few days later in the cold light of dat with fresh ears. That's when the subtle problems seem easier to hear for me.
 
Sure dude, that happens to me all the time. Sometimes the problems are so flamingly obvious that I can't believe what I'm hearing!

Slackmaster 2000
 
I agree dobro I've definitely encountere times when, regardless of how much I've been working that day week whatever, it just clicks and the answers just fall into place. I question how good it is to listen to really well mastered recordings (Floyd, Radiohead, etc.) before you put your ears to work. I know it's important to rest your ears but sometimes listening to such recordings seems to kinda open up deep, integral parts of my hearing and hence allows for more responsive listening in the studio.


Laj
 
I've noticed that I hear high frequencies best around 4:00 am in the morning, after I have been awake all night. I would think that my hearing should be best right after I wake up, but this is not the case.

I am thinking its something like the nose thing, you know, where we can smell cologne little in the morning and our noses get more sensitive as the day progresses.

I also think the time factor might be involved. If you leave a mix to sit for some days, the next listen will reveal a lot of things, maybe its because we are listening more to the music and more subconsciously.
 
Dobro,

Good point, I am constantly trying different levels on my vocals.

Since I'm not that crazy about my voice, I find it very hard to be objective. Seems like there is no one right time to do a mix.

One way I check my mixes, since I record in my garage (car hold), with a rug.

I open the garage door, turn the mix up loud, and circle the culdasack on my daughters bike (I don't have a bike). Just another perspective.

Sometimes I listen through the garage door.

This seems to help with vocal levels, or maybe I just want to be the best one man garage band that I can be.

Who the hell know's what music makes you think!

Does anyone else have trouble being objective about their vocal mix level?

GT
 
"Does anyone else have trouble being objective about their vocal mix level?"


All the time. I can rarely really "hear" it until I've mixed it down, burnt it to CD and played it on my hi-fi. I'm hoping that'll change now I've got real monitors instead of halfway-house ones.

Vocals often sound too loud on commercially produced CDs to me. I don't know if it's because I'm focusing on them and that is causing my objectivity to go to pot. I've also wondered if the whole CD has been compressed further for the CD format and this is making the vocal more dominant than on the original vinyl.
 
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"One way I check my mixes, since I record in my garage (car hold), with a rug.

I open the garage door, turn the mix up loud, and circle the culdasack on my daughters bike (I don't have a bike). Just another perspective.

Sometimes I listen through the garage door."

Dude, I bet your neighbors *love* you.

"Hey, Grace, he's doin' it again..."

"What this time?"

"Riding round and round on a girl's bike."

"Maybe we should phone the police."

"No, not yet - I like it when he gets off the bike and listens to his garage."

Vocal level: first I thought the vocal should stand out a little bit above the rest of the music. Then I thought I was just falling in love with my own voice, and so I humbled it down. But these days, I'm thinking that if the words are worth singing, they're worth hearing, so I'm raising the level on the vocals again.
 
I'll go one step past that. Not simply mixing, but my actual playing sounds different after a decent "time out". I've played guitar parts that I thought sounded great, I listen to them two days later and think "what the hell was I thinking?" And I've had the reverse happen occasionally too, something sounds better later.
 
mixing mixing

Yeah, I also try to put a lot of time between finishing recording and starting to mix, if I have the luxury of waiting - and the patience... ;)

It ALWAYS turns out better for me that way - I'll spend a little time on a rough mixdown to capture my ideas, and maybe make some notes, then try to leave it alone for a week or two, then just play it around the house for a while - THEN do the real mix. Usually wind up playing my mixes on the living room stereo, but sitting listening in the kitchen. (Don't have a garage... or a bike, or even a cul-de-sac...)

For me at least, the elapsed time lets it change from being a RECORDING in my mind, into being a SONG instead... ever notice that you listen differently to one of your old recording, that you haven't heard for a couple of years? Getting those consumer ears out is hard...

As for lead vocal levels, I found a great solution. I set up the mix the way I want it. Then I let my wife set the level of the lead vox, while I leave the room and take a break. Never fails to give the best result - after all, she LISTENS to the music. I just make it.

For a reasonable fee, I'm sure she would be happy to come set your vocal levels also... :)

cheers /Tommy
 
mixing time

I just wish that I had the kind of time that some of you have.

Wife+2 Kids+ Schoolteaching+ coaching= songs recorded over a long period of time, without more that two or three hours available at a time (usually more like one).

I have a friend thAt I really trust, and he is my objective ears most of the time. Just an idea for those of you that really trust somebody else.
 
I recorded a band over the weekend, bunch of 16 year olds, nice kids but they brought their dad who was very 'insistent' that I mix the same day aside of all my professional recommendations to him and my own alarm bells going off inside my head.

So 12pm we do the tracking, goes nicely done in around five hours, it's only two songs. I send them away for an hour and a half and I leave the studio for an hour, coming back in time to get the drum sound sorted before I had their eagle eyes watching my every move.

We got finished around 10pm, I burnt CDs for every band member etc. So, bet you're all wondering how it came out?

Well, listened to the mixes for the first time since the session this morning. The second song I mixed, drums are a little too 'there' but overall the mix is good, first song is great.

The band phoned the studio owner to complement me on the work and to rebook for more recording in April.

So, I got away with it but if you really can mix another day, mix another day.

Anyone got any tips on handling stroppy customers when you really really need the business?
 
I just tell people "I'll do what ever you want to do but if you want to change something after the fact, it'll be a minimum charge of three hours to go back into it and then the normal hourly charge after that. Ass, gas or grass, nobody rides for free.
 
>So, I got away with it but if you really can mix another day, mix another day.
>
>Anyone got any tips on handling stroppy customers when you really really need the business?

Sounds like you did a really good job, rich!

Here's an analogy I get away with more often than not when people want to mix the same day...

I ask them if, when they repaint a room in their home, if they insist on moving all the furniture & stuff back in place immediately after the last brush-stroke... or if they wouldn't usually rather wait for the paint to dry first...

To me the only valid reason to rush is if they are in an EXTREME hurry - in situations where the deadline is actually more important than the quality of the work...

I usually try to schedule the booking right from the start with mix set at least two days after final recording, preferrably more... if that's in the agreement right up front, it's easier to avoid those situations...

My worst horror story was a really time-pressed situation, for a band that recorded a few demo songs for a promo CD single (DAT tapes had to go to the pressing plant following morning). It was a low-budget time-squeeze deal, they were booked in an amateur studio, no mastering, etc etc. I was there to "semi-produce" like help with some ideas & arrangements, pointers, overall sound etc. They were actually really good as were the songs, and the mix turned out fairly decent - considering it was done at 2 am right after a full weekend of tracking... right after closing the mix, the guys dropped the DAT tapes in an envelope and mailed them off...

Almost had a cardiac arrest when I eventually got the record - the whole damn thing was phase-inverted, due to a faulty cable going to the studio's DAT recorder... couldn't be heard IN the studio, since one of the cables going back were turned around as well...

It was kinda funny (eventually) to hit the "Mono"-button on my stereo and hear about 60% of the instruments & voices disappear completely...

Even worse was checking out the sleeve, and seeing that they credited me as the producer...

Oh well, these things happen. Felt like Spinal Tap.

cheers /Tommy
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Ears adjust to (or get used to) the sound of something so if your normal frame of reference gets skewed, your mix can be off... this is why it's important to keep a mix reference going while you mix to keep your ears "grounded"!
Click to expand...
Hi Bruce!

I hopefully will get my Tannoy reveals those days so i have 2 pair of monitors (old Pilot m1).
I borrowed the reveals a week ago from a friend, tried them and found that i maybe gain better results if i switch between my pilots and the reveals from time to time. The thing is, that i mainly do electronic stuff all by myself plus sometimes recording additional bass and guitars of friends. On the electronic genre i actually do not split explicitely between tracking and mixing, instead doing both all the time while composing...
So i end up with 2 questions:
1.) What do you think? Is it better to use 2 pairs alternally or better stick on the reveals (and get used) and listen to a reference record between mixing?
2.) Should i try to seperate harder between composing/arranging and mixing?

txs, Mark
 
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