Mixer Needed to Record Live Rock Bands

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JayX

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I wrote this for another forum, but decided to hunt for a place that dealt more with the audio side of things (I posted this in the audio subforum of a pro video site.). Any replies would be grateful. My location is the UK so prices will vary here, but I'd like to spend around £100 ($180), and other concerns are size. I simply don't think I could lug a 16 track desk onto the train, nor get anyone to mix the sound whilst the band plays its first song :) I'm not expecting incredible results, just better than my position at the moment, which is filming from the side of the stage or at the back of the stage, taking most of my sound from the backline and monitors, never a good situation! I film a lot, so as long as my £100 can help me get a fairly balanced mix that'll be pleasing to the ear, I should be happy :)

A mixer that has caught my eye is the phonic 5 channel one, and the Behringer Eurorack 1204PRO (No need for FX.. I think?! :) )

My main area of fun with video currently is recording live bands, I've progressed up from filming with a single chip consumer JVC cam with no ext. mic even, to a set of Sonys - TRV950 and PD150. With the 150 I'm blessed with the XLR inputs and plan to make good use of them!

In one club I film at, I'm on good terms with the sound guys, so I get an XLR even feed from the desk and I have the second camera at the back (quite high) with a sony electret mic (MS 908C) set to 90deg for ambience and I can put together a mix I'm happy with (obviously not quite as good as the 16 track desk feed sent thru a MOTU to Nuendo on a friends laptop the other week, but that was very much a one off!).

My main problem is, the main two clubs I go to have no fixed PA. What I was thinking of doing therefore is, buying a cheaper ~5x XLR input behringer or phonic mixer, and taking feeds from the PA guys desk into that, and having someone balance the audio during the first track (unavoidable really, but hey) via solo buttons and making sure the peaks are generally even, as well as a condenser mic (set quite low) then all sent down an XLR feed to my camera at the front of the stage. Even if the mix isn't so even, I'm sure this will give me a better sound than I'm currently getting (basically the electret mic on top of my camera.. which as I'm side of stage means I'm picking up amps/drumkit a bit heavy unfortunately)

Was planning to do something similar for a small PA in a small club that does a similar thing as well, as recording in there is a nightmare currently.

Anyone got any tips or ideas? I'm working on a very low budget, as it doesn't generate income and is simply for fun, but it'd be nice to put together a DVD of really good footage of the various bands, as it all helps promote our local scene.

Thanks!
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The Yamaha MG12/4 is about £120 in the UK, which is stunning value for money, will do all that you need and is not too much to lug around. It's a great little desk for the price.
 
Yep I've seen the Yammy on DigitalVillage, and have a soft spot for the company. Personally I don't think it's going to make a massive different which brand I go for, as long as it meets my requirements, is in my pricerange and is easy to lug around :) I'm just not sure if I've overlooked any aspects.

I believe the sound desk I'll be mainly attaching to is a yammy too, not that this will make any difference of course ;) Its just I'm hoping that I can group things in the way I'm guessing..

Ie say they use 16 channels, 2 channels each guitar, 3 channels for 3 mics, 5 (guess!) channels for the drumkit and the bass DI'd into a channel. Now say I have 4 xlr ins, I'd have:

Ch1 : Bass, Guitar 1, Guitar 2
Ch2 : All Vocals
Ch3 : All Kit
Ch4 : Ambience Mic

I'm guessing these channels SHOULD be fairly evenly mixed within themselves? (Ie the bass and guitars, if solo'd, will sound fairly decent, without one being way too loud/quiet than the others. The DIing aspect is whats possibly going to make a difference perhaps?) will the kit be mic'd fairly evenly? We're talking a fairly small venue, so the desk will be relying on the backline, hence I can't just take a single XLR out of all the channels unmixed, it'd be a mess with very loud vocals and quiet instruments.

Anyway, is that the kind of thing that should work? Is it possible on most desks to make 3 groups like this and export each one via an XLR ? Am I living in a dreamworld? :D

I'll look up the reviews on that yamaha now, and I'll see what prices/stock they have in the various shops in my town. I might be lucky and get a decent deal there and I can talk to the salesthings, I just need to know exactly what I need before going in :)

Thanks for the post.
 
I think you should do a bit more reading on the subject if you think you can spend £100 on a desk to take group outs from another desk and have a decent recording. You'd be better buying an 8 track recorder and hooking it up to the soundboard already in place, that way you could recorf 4 stereo groups = 8 chanels. group1 stereo for drums, Group 2 stereo for guitars (if there's 2) group 3 bass in the left, vocals in the right, group 4 backing vocals in the left and room mic on the right.

That'll give you everything you need as far as seperation goes but there really is a lot more to consider.... once you have your 8 tracks recorded you're gonna need a mixer to mix them down to 2 track stereo with, AND something else to record that 2 track stereo and that's just the tip of the iceberg

Good luck, sounds like you need it
 
A digital 8 track of any description is going to be way over budget tho.
 
what about a second hand minidisk recorder plugged straight into the board then sync it up to your video footage?

There's no easy way to do it on your budget
 
I've got a minidisc deck... but I don't see how on earth a simple 2ch unmixed feed in a small venue where backline plays an important part of the sound will work at all. From experience, vocals will be way high, and it'll just sound like a complete mess.

From what a friend who is a studio engineer has said, with the Yamaha desk mentioned above, I should be able to get a loom connected to the outs of the PA desk into mine, get it mixed to a decent level and then have a feed thats worthy of recording. You'd need to spend around $3,000 to get studio quality feeds, and that just isn't worth it, but I already know this and have had a simple mono XLR feed from a desk before, and with a bit of tweaking in post (reverb/multiband etc) I'm happy with the results.. so if I can do something similar, I'll be happy.
 
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