Mixdown inspiration

  • Thread starter Thread starter S8-N
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Here is my take, I am an idiot.
I'm taking this way too personal, maybe It is because I love my mustache and I love Boston.
Thanks for pointing this out to me, Ed.
And Slackmaster, I apologize.



[This message has been edited by Brad (edited 10-08-1999).]
 
Uh, Brad, I think that you may be missing the fun here buddy.

I appreciate everything that Slackman has to say. He is as entitled to his opinion about music as the next guy. And since this thread asked for an opinion, it is only fair that anyone can express what they feel, without being judged because they differ from what the consensus thinks.

I have found Slackmans views to be something that I look forward to seeing on a daily basis. I seriously doubt that in his heart he really is jealous of anyone. I think that he has found a thread that he can express a very distinct opinion without feeling like anyone is going to shoot him down for it. That is cool with me. At no point has he made any personal judgements towards me, and I have been the one opposing him from the get go. I show him the same respect by not expressing any personal judgements towards him. All in all, I would say that at the least, we have used words, and created theories in this thread that has made us all think, at least in a fun way.

So please, don't beat up on the guy that chooses to express himself on here. Join in. State what you think on the subject without making judgements towards others that may express something that differs from the norm. Slackman is obviously a very intelligent guy. He deserves some respect regardless of his preferences in music. I will always give him that. And so should you.

I have downloaded some stuff from people that post on here. I found that Slackmans was actually some of the better sounding stuff. I of course took into account that he threw his two demo songs together in a very short amount of time. I thought that under the circumstances, it sounded pretty darn good. And hey, he plays blues guitar pretty well. Not something that every guitar player can do.

That is all from me. Remember everyone, nobody is above anyone else in here. We all have our own ideas about things. I have learned from everyone on here in one way or another. I am greatful that all you people spend the time to post whatever you post.

Ed
 
Do goatees figure into all of this???
I can't really rant with any kind of knowledge about pre 80's music... I didn't start to listen to music seriously untill around 1983 and when I did start to go back and listen to older stuff... It wasn't faggoty hair bands like boston. (O.K. I did listen to STYX a bit but they had psuedo-satanic implications... but in the end they, too were faggs...)
I just looked through my CD collection (around 300) and I only see four bands that were pre- 80's... Zappa, Doors, Hendrix, and 1 lonely Skynyrd (Yes...Lynyrd) CD.
I did get into pink floyd when I was around 16 (Discovered drugs !!!) but they didn't survive the cassette to CD conversion of 1991... When Waters left someone forgot to tell them that they then sucked.
I just went through my entire collection again and only found 10 CD's out of 300 that are pre-1990... Just as a matter of record I'll list them...
1. Carnivore ( Became Type o negative)
2. Coroner ( defunct Swedish death metal trio)
3. Dead Kennedys
4. Misfits
5. Gwar's 1st album
6. The Melvins first
7. Slayer ("Reign" and "South")
8. Stevie Ray Vaughn ("weather")
9. Tad (early pioneers of Seattle grunge, never made any money, still around)
10. White Zombie (hard to find major label debut)

I guess the point here is that you can't live in the past... If you want to be a part of the music scene today, listen to todays music. There are some great bands on independent labels... you just have to find them...
I always thought that it would be cool to pass a law that when a musician died... you were prohibited from playing his music on the radio ever again... Free up some of that airtime for new bands...
S8-N

P.S. My own equation for suck level favors testicle diameter over dick length.
 
Oh. yeah...
Hey Doc,
I'm glad you discovered the first Mr. Bungle album... I can listen to that bastard every day and not tire of it... Their other two albums are just as friggin' unbelievable.

S8-N
 
"We avoid future mistakes with an understanding of the past". Benjiman Franklin might have said that. But I don't know for sure. I just read a funny email that stated that if you made up your own quote, and used his name as the author, people would listen more closely to it..... :) Hope that it worked here. LOL

Anyway S8-N, it may be hard to fathom a world where 8 track cassettes, vinyl LP's, and bell bottoms were the in things. But the attitude was the same then as it is now. I think that you will find that most successful musicians have musical roots that are quite firmly rooted in the past. This is how we learn how to do things. It would appear that you may one of the youngest people that are posting on this thread. I have no problem with that. Just don't give us "old" guys any shit about living in the past. We have a lot more past to live with here. You are just getting into the things that I was doing over ten years ago. What were you doing ten years ago? Probably playing doctor with the neighbor girl, or catching frogs. This is the stuff that we grew up on. It is what made our foundation for music. We will swear by it for the rest of our lives. When you are "old", you will do the same with the bands that you are really into right now.

But if you were to really sit down and break down a lot of modern music, you would find that bands like Nirvana really just changed some Beatle's tunes around with some out of key singing. Pearl Jam mostly took from Zepplin and Neil Young. I won't even go into all of the bands that copied Sabbath.

The point is that a lot of us grew up with pop music coming into a very elevated state of technicality. Pop music has not changed much since the early 80's. It really couldn't because so many bands came out in the late 70's and early 80's and used up all of the note combinations...... :) Kind of hard to write songs anymore in the rock context because it has mostly all been done. So, we like to sit back and talk about the old days, when everything was fresh and new. So much of the production that is taken for granted now was cutting edge when I was young. Why, well I first was listening to rock, they didn't have digital reverbs. Many studios still had Chambers for reverb. They all had Plate reverbs. This is stuff that has been replaced mostly by Lexicon products. And what the hell, it is easier to use and configure.

But, easy accesibility to great sounds and tools tends to make people drop the ball in the production and writing aspects of recorded music. It just all sounds so damn good now. You don't even really need any talent to put out a really high quality demo these days.

Way back when, people has to discover all of this production stuff. They also had to perform their parts very well because digital editing was not around then. So, listen to those old albums and remember that they didn't have SSL console with full digitally controlled analog automation, and Dolby SR, and PCM 80's. They were getting those great sounds with gear that is considered way to old school for most recent recordings.

I get to work on all sorts of new, cutting edge music in my studio. I am finding though every day that these newer artists are doing stuff that is pale in comparison to older recordings. They usually lack the imagination that was prevelent way back when.

Off the ever wearing out more soupbox for me...
Ed
 
Some may not like his style, but I think Beck was very creative when he did the "Mutations" album. VERY interesting production!
 
Holy crap. I hope that nobody's actually taking me serious here! It's true that I don't like Boston, but I honestly don't think that YOU shouldn't like Boston. Threads like these are for expressing opinion and having some fun. And I let it go for a long time before getting silly.

S8-N:

I haven't quite figured out the goatee thing. I've been trying to grow one for a while but I just end up with what looks like a crotch on my chin. Therefore I think that the government might somehow be involved. When I get some good data I'll let you know :)

As far as the "listen to old music" "listen to new music" thing. It's true that older people sound older when they say things like "in my day, music meant something", and it's true that young people sound younger when they say "why live in the past, you have to listen to today's music!"

I think that's all bullshit. Here's what you do...scribble out all the dates on all the albums that you own and pretend that they were all released yesterday. Then sort out the good from the bad. I think that Nirvana Nevermind and Pearl Jam Ten are two of the greatest rock albums of all time, not to mention Soundgarden's Badmotorfinger. However, I also think that one of the best musical performances off all time by any rock band is Pink Floyd's "Shine On" parts 1 through howevermany which is almost 25 years old!

I don't think that we have nearly as MUCH great music today as what came out during the late 60s and early 70s, but there's still great music being made.

I'll like it if I like it, I'll hate it if I hate it. Whether it's on Pop radio or I found it in some obscure record store.

Oh, S8-N, I noticed that you mentioned SRV's Couldn't Stand the Weather. Is it just me, or does that album SOUND really cheap? The playing is great of course, but the overall sound is lacking in dynamics...and it almost sounds monotone? Maybe it's just my ear.

sonusman: Thanks for having a sense of humor!

Later,

Slackmaster 2000
 
Ok, I'm actually going to be serious for a moment.

I picked up Son Volt's album the other day, and while overall it turned out to be a total snoozer, the first song "Straightface" sounds excellent.

I really like how the drums sound muted but still pack a narly punch. I also like how they hard-panned the toms...sounds real cool with headphones.

Not to mention the guitars are real smooth dispite their dirty sound and the harp is absolutely perfect.

I don't think I would even like this song if they hadn't done it "just so."

Slackman
 
ten bucks says satan was making the neighborhood girl eat the frogs that he caught and then stepped on... :D
- eddie -
 
Okay - look at this thread. We need a new forum or two. One for good professional or commercial mixes, one for good music found on recordings. They're not the same thing. The one for talking about professional mixes definitely belongs on this page, the one for talking about the music... what a lot of fun, but I don't know if it belongs here. What do you think? Think the big, green, scaly one will go for it?

[This message has been edited by dobro (edited 10-08-1999).]
 
Hey Ed,
Just as a point of reference...In a few months I will be 30. I did my first studio session 9 years ago as well as played my first live show. I still have that first session on CD...I should post that stuff, It's pretty bizarre... Chilli peppers meets Slayer... Anyway... In the past 9 years I have been in 4 bands in 3 states that did 6 studio sessions and played around 60 live shows... All original material... around 55 songs... 1 cover: Aretha Franklins' Natural Woman... I guess you had to be there... Anyway...
I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that I may be new to home recording... but I've been around the music scene... All but my first band have been three piece bands with me doing vocals and guitar...
Gimmie clout mofo, or I'll flood your ass with MP3's of shit you'll never forgive me for...
You know... I'm an old bastard considering the genre of music that I am a part of... I hope you don't misinterpret my preference for new music... I just can't listen to the same shit for years and years on end... If I listen to an album 30 times, I'm done... Unless it is of rare quality (like the Mr. Bungle albums...)
I have a theory that most peoples musical intelligence stops developing around age 17... This may coincide with losing ones virginity but I'm not sure... The majority of adults today still prefer to listen to the music that they were listening to at age 17...
When I was age 17 I was listening to Ozzy, Metallica, Van Halen, All of the guitar heros... But now I couldn't play that stuff at home with a straight face... Because music has come so far since then...
It is kind of like movies... Back in '87 one of my favorite movies was "Evil Dead" but I watched it the other night and struck me as being painfully cheesy.
Another of my fave's was "Raiders of the Lost Ark"... yet a recent veiwing left me feeling let down... It just didn't stir my coffee like it did ten years ago... I think music should be the same way...
There some awesome bands out there today(and you won't hear them on the radio) I guess it is a matter of taste... Most people don't like the music that I do, but my tastes have been GROWING throughout the years...
I'm not still listening to Quiot Riot "Metal health" and Twisted Sister "Stay Hungry"... I work at a night club where hundreds upon hundreds of losers come lay down their hard earned cash to hear poor versions of "Margaritaville" and "Sweet home Alabama"... The same shit that they were listening to when THEY were 17...
I guess my point is this... When you stop growing... you start dying...


Getting off of the soapbox now,
S8-N
 
Dobro:

Perhaps it's all subjective. Most people seem to like the mixes on the music they like...in fact I didn't hear anyone say, "I hate so-and-so, but what a great sound!"

This issue is probably just unique to this thread. Anytime someone starts a topic with "What's your favorite...", opinions are going to start flying. Having a forum just for music might inspire too much cheesy "Steve Vai vs. Joe Satriani" debates. They're fun every now and then....but.... :)

Slackmaster 2000
 
I hate to do this, but I have a statement (opinion) about great mixes. After all of the debates about new music vs old music maybe I'll get blasted, but here goes!

For acoustic recordings, John Denver (our now dead singing fly-boy) had some of the best guitar sounds on vinyl. The exception would be Country Roads (a little thin sounding). I have to mention Gordon Lightfoot, Dan Fogelberg and Simon and Garfunkle here too. Great tone and "live" sound to many of these artists' albums.

Many people have talked about guitar albums that have great sound. Stanley Jordan has some great albums. His live shows are fantastic mix-wise and should not be attended by the light of heart. His shows make picking up the guitar nearly impossible for 2 - 3 months afterwards.

Live Albums--call me an old fogey (I'm only 36 actually) but it is hard to beat Neil Diamond's "Hot August Night." A masterpiece of live recording. Frampton's "Come Alive" is also another good blue print on how to record live.

Manheim Steamroller (the band that puts out all that "Fresh Aire" stuff and comes from my hometown of Omaha)--if you are into eclectic music, you will enjoy the first 3 "Fresh Aire" Albums and number 5. Since I left Omaha I haven't really heard much other than their TV Christmas shows.

Other bands from rock-n-roll with great productions that I haven't seen listed yet:
Queen (now, here is the studio being used to its fullest potential), ELO, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, and Yes. Maybe these bands no longer exist or haven't had a top ten album in a decade, but these bands put out some masterpieces in their day and should never be overlooked by anyone serious about learning the fine art of recording.
 
I said it before and I'll say it again...

Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
 
Good one! I have always loved that album for the music, but I just pulled it off the shelf for a listen, brilliant production/mixing, etc.

"All the Girls Love Alice" one of the more awesome tunes that a lot of Elton fans don't even know about. That whole album rocks!
 
Mr Marquard - you're right about John Denver and Lightfoot - the guitars are clear and present.

[This message has been edited by dobro (edited 10-13-1999).]

[This message has been edited by dobro (edited 10-13-1999).]
 
Brad, "All the Young Girls Love Alice" was the song that a friend of mine used to test people's hifi systems with...you hadda feel that last bass note from the synth riff to pass! I still crank that one up sometimes just for fun. But damn, that whole album has such incredible S/N...vinyl just doesn't do it justice!
 
some old great mixes
any old Cure stuff
Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine
early Ramones
Cult - Electric
Melissa Ethridge - Melissa Ethridge
George Benson - Breezin
J. Hendrix - specifically - Easy Rider
Radiohead - Paranoid Android
Violent Femmes - Blister in the Sun

I think that a good mix forms around the 'feeling' of the band itself. Sure those old Ramones tracks sound primitive compared to modern standards, but if you get what the Ramones were about then you'll understand why those low quality sounds were perfect!
A really good mix doesn't stand out and brag. Many bands (Metallica, Tool, Def Leppard) have killer early albums that sounded just 'wrong' enough to work. Then they polished and spifified everything so much that they lost that killer vibe. The production sounded better but the impact was lessened. I like a mix that follows the bands direction, providing a means for extending their feel of a song in a transparent manner.
 
Yeah, Melissa's stuff is killer. I sing in her key, and if I ever finish my first CD, I have a slightly re-written version of "Your Little Secret" with the main premise of the song turned upside down (i.e. poly-friendly).
 
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