Midimonkey Design Take I

[frederic]

First, thanks to the folks that helped with this and gave me ideas (Fitz - this means you!).

Anyway, I've attached the diagram of the current design, and I'd like to solicit input/feedback.

When you look at the diagram, you'll see an office area, which is already there, and I intend to pretty much leave it the way it is. The office area has 12' ceilings with a drop ceiling 2' below that point, for a total of 10' of space. The 2nd floor slab is incomplete, meaning that it goes from the top of the diagram to the bottom of the diagram, starting on the left, covering out to rightmost edge of the office area and bathroom. This means that part of the console room and the majority of the ISO1/Airlock booth is covered by this slab, 12' above the existing cement floor.

What I attempted to do with this design is control the "people flow" issue where as I wanted to avoid customers wandering through the office area and/or the console room. This is why the live room and the drum room have doors on the backside, allowing gear and crap to be brought in without going through the console room. This is also why I placed a wall in front of the large tank and the breaker area (right above the tank) so they don't get smacked or fiddled with. I thought double doors was a nice touch - larger openings.

You'll notice towards the bottom center, a strangely shaped room with a rectangular room next to it. The left room is the machine room, where recorders, computers, and other noisy stuff will be hidden audibly from the console room. Through a single wall with a door (to the right) will be the server farm, which will have three racks available for servers. Initially I won't need much of that space, as I'll have a single web/ftp/mail server, a SQL server, an application server, and an audio storage server with a large raid array. Not that much gear at all. In these two rooms the diagram indicates 24U, ignore that, its a cut and paste error. 42U racks will be installed.

In the right corner, is a mastering room. This could also be "console room B" and i know I have some parallel walls to design out, and I will do so shortly. Above that is a midi studio, which will have a workstation, two monitors, and racks of midi gear.

The percussion and live rooms could actually be larger, by making the pair of walls between them longer, thus moving that one corner out more (towards the tank). Not sure if I should do this or not, but there is a lot of wasted space behind them. The stupid square pole/girder of course is in the way, which is why I angled the wall as I did. I might move it out a little bit.

The ceilings in the console room (thats not underneath the 12' slab over the office) as well as the other rooms, will have vaulted ceilings, sloping down towards whats considered the "back" of the room. The maximum height will be 16', and the back of each room will be 12'.

I have a little cleanup to do in the reception area, as to put a reception area back there And you'll also notice one of the loading docks is now colored red. I made it red as I had expected to fill that door in with cinderblocks, but then I decided to block them both in. Now I'm thinking maybe the rear most door should be left, and I move the mastering room and the midi room and bathroom somewhere else.

The problem with this design is I have about 20 of them, and nothing really fits quite right. I think its because I stare at them too much!!!

Anyway, just sharing!

 

[frederic]

Actually thinking about it, I'd like to convert the mastering room to another, but much smaller, console room and maybe I'll move the bathroom against the tank/breaker room, and make the existing bathroom and part of the midi room into a smaller live room.

This way "studio A" comes with an engineer, and for clients that want to do their own mixing and are not weathly, could use the smaller section for their own stuff. I could also relocate the server room entirely above the office space on the concrete slab, and put in a stairwell to go upstairs.

I have to do a stairwell anyway because I'm going to have a "facility UPS" up there to protect all gear from power irregularities. I could even cut up some of the office space for more room (with a 12' ceiling height before any acoustical treatments) and move that upstairs too.

Okay, guess its time to start diagram 21

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Decisions, decisions!!

Too many to make, and as soon as you make one, it changes something else!
But #20 looks great frederic. Thanks for the appreciation. Looks like your on the right track. You do nice drawings too! Keep us up to date on what your doing, and any help I can give is available no charge. I like to do this stuff. BTW, I just got an offer approved on a house/studio(giant old Catholic nuns retreat, built like a tank in 1908, looking over Coos Bay, Oregon). Has 3 outbuildings, one for printing, one for my shop, and the cool one for my studio. Anyway, good luck getting your design finished.
fitz

 

[Rochey]

great post fredric...

I am becoming increasingly envious of your new building... I want one too!!!]

Keep us all updated, and if you can, Take some pictures, so we can all plan our own mega-studios in our own heads... (thats the only way i'll ever manage it, god knows land is too expensive in the UK...)

congrats on a great find

R

 

[Son of Mixerman]

Looks pretty nice. I might add a suggestion or two.

1st suggestion: Add another set of doors in the northwest corner of the live room. The less walking to the bathroom the better.

2nd Suggestion: lose the rectangular shape of the mastering room if you actually plan to master in it. If you do, place the couch in between the mastering desk and the speakers. You want the client to hear as close to possible to what you hear.

Do a rough layout of the equipment in each of the rooms as well. This will help you weed out potential problem of "people flow" when its in full swing.

What? No hottub?

SoMm

 

[John Sayers]

Looking good. One question. How do you get from the control room to the live room and percussion room to change a mike position???

cheers
JOhn

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Me too?

I was going to ask the same thing john, but I figured frederic was still manipulating and
#21 was coming up anyway. But good point. I was also wondering what frederic was doing at the back control room wall? Boy, that much space is wonderful. Oh, I almost forgot, frederic, can you tell me about your mastering room? What are you putting in there? I didn't know you were mastering also. How cool. Maybe you can teach us something about this. Do you master engineer yourself? That end of things is a little vague to me. I've read about it, but don't understand exactly what it is they do and what they do it with Why doesn't the mixer just do it when he has his mix done? I've read that they re-eq among other things. Does that imply that everything on the mix should be flat, as the mastering engineer is going to eq it anyway? Just wondering. Not that I have any need for it. Don't have anything mix, let alone master.
fitz

 

[frederic]

Re: Me too?

what frederic was doing at the back control room wall?

The back of the control room is where all the outboards and other crap like that will go. Starting at the top of the sofa towards the ceiling (embedded in the wall), will be several racks with 18-24U of space for this gear. The consoles I am 80% decided on have enough "inboard" stuff that the outboard stuff won't be used constantly, or even often, so putting it behind two doors seemed reasonable to maintain a clean, sleek look in the room. That was my thinking, anyway. Of course Diagram #21 might very well change that

Boy, that much space is wonderful. Oh, I almost forgot, frederic, can you tell me about your mastering room? What are you putting in there?

The mastering room is a bad design Ignore it completely It should not be rectangular.

What I will be putting in there is a smaller, digital mixer (compatible with the ones in the console room, thus drawing on the equipment/technology shared between the two rooms) for stereo mastering. I want the room to be a dead room rather than the console room which will have a little feel to it (not much, just enough not to give the engineer a splitting headache). Since mastering will be digital, there will be a computer, appropriate software, a digital mixer, a compressor and a parametric EQ for tweaking.

I didn't know you were mastering also. How cool. Maybe you can teach us something about this. Do you master engineer yourself? That end of things is a little vague to me.

Mastering is billable, therefore I shall Anyway, I'd be happy to explain. Picture what happens in a recording studio.

The producer has a "vision" of what the end result (album) should depict.
The producer directs the engineer (who often adds a little taste/art to the mix) and the artists towards that goal.

Lets say, as an end result, there are 10 songs. This is where the mastering engineer steps in. The mastering engineer has two goals:

First and foremost is to balance the 10 songs in my example to each other in both EQ and average amplitude. Since the engineer doesn't mix all 10 songs simultaniously, its nearly impossible for the final output to be identical across all 10 songs. Even more impossible when the engineer has been yelled at by the lead singer for 2 hours that her lemonade has too much pulp

Second is to tailor the final stereo recording for the intended audience.

What I mean by this is determine ahead of time who will be listening to the recording. If the goal of the band is to "boink chicks" well, the final mix is created for car stereos, boom boxes and walkmans. If the recording is for airplay, its EQ/compressed a little flatter because most radio stations emphasize low and high frequences already. For airplay, often a lot more compression is used than "normal" because FM stations only have so much headroom. The noise floor for radio stations is astonishing high, and there is little room for dynamic range. For presentation to Sony, BMG, Capital et. al, I know those folks have high end listening rooms with equipment I can only fantasize about, therefore its mastered more flat, more "pure" more sonically correct. A good mastering engineer has the skills/experience to do this and perform consistantly. The skillset is a combination of technical expertise, audio analysis, artistic ability and experience.

An important point to realize is that an engineer is working with many tracks, working down to 7.1, 5.1 or stereo. The mastering engineer starts with the same number of channels that the final recording will have, given to him/her by the engineer. The mastering engineer doesn't add tracks or subtract tracks, just tweaks the audio data

Hope that helped ya

 

[frederic]

Looking good. One question. How do you get from the control room to the live room and percussion room to change a mike position???

cheers
JOhn

Um, roadies?

Seriously, it didn't really occur to me, thanks for pointing that out!

I guess my control room needs more doors. Diagram #19 has a hallway between the control room front glass and the different live rooms, but I took that out so the view from the console room windows wouldn't be large doors

I shall rework it !!!!

 

[frederic]

Looks pretty nice. I might add a suggestion or two.

Thank you, and much welcomed/appreciated

1st suggestion: Add another set of doors in the northwest corner of the live room. The less walking to the bathroom the better.

Makes sense! There is a bathroom to the right, or did I not label it correctly?

2nd Suggestion: lose the rectangular shape of the mastering room if you actually plan to master in it. If you do, place the couch in between the mastering desk and the speakers. You want the client to hear as close to possible to what you hear.

In revision #21 it will be shaped more like the console room, you're absolutely right. I think I just got lazy having redone this soooooo many times over the last four weeks. But good eye, thank you again.

Do a rough layout of the equipment in each of the rooms as well. This will help you weed out potential problem of "people flow" when its in full swing.

Great idea, thank you.

What? No hottub?

No, afraid not

However this pro space will allow me to not finish the home studio in the magnitude I was working on, therefore I have more room for one at home

The wife is happy about that, for sure !!!!!!

 

[frederic]

I've attached an "in between" version of revision #20, slowly becoming #21.

I'm showing this so those of you who are trying to re-engineer their space, you maybe can pick up a few pointers.

Using most cad software, moving double walls, doors, furniture and the like is a REAL pain in the ass. So what I do is this:

The facility is drawn on layer one, protected against resizing, coloring. and any other type of change. This is because the outer shell is what it is, and not going to be changed.

Layer two, is the stuff I've added. The console room, the mastering room, the wall around the tank/breakers, that sorta thing.

Then I save the diagram as "warehouse##" with ## being the revision number.

Now comes the fun part! I create a new layer, and instead of drawing walls, furniture and move stuff around (moving double walls with properly scaled doors and windows is a real pain) I simply draw really thick red lines approximating the new walls and outline of large sized items, like console tables. I move these lines around until I'm happy, then save it as warehouse## +1.

Then I go back, delete everything in the second layer (which is the non-red-line stuff), then draw walls, furniture, windows etc right on top of the red lines forming the new design.

When all done and things are tweaked a bit, I delete the third layer with the red lines, then tweak a little more.

And there you have it, CAD etch-a-sketch I find this less time consuming then moving all the walls around, paying close attention to space and detail, only to dislike it and start over. The redline thing allowed me to print it out (in color) and take a good look at it and go "what the heck was I thinking" and start over with my only having to click delete on a few red lines.

Anyway, enjoy. #21 should be done over this weekend!

 

[FZfile]

Nice design......

....but....

....not that I know anything at all about REAL studio design, because I dont......

...but I notice that you put the bathroom right adjacent to the live room and the iso booth.

I'm sure that you will have excellent sound isolation (you seem to be very thourough) but flushing toilets and running sinks and rock star singers fooling around with drummers girlfriends do make noise so wouldn't it be just as easy to build the bathroom along the outside wall of that same area and put the couches where the bathroom is????

Although I suppose real rock stars would likely use the couch while the drummer is tracking..

Just a thought.
You have an ambitious and good looking plan there though.

-mike

 

[frederic]

Re: Nice design......

along the outside wall of that same area and put the couches where the bathroom is????

The reason why the bathroom is there, is because its there now, and the hot, cold and sewer pipes are underneath the concrete slab. So, its not moving

But you're right about flushing... making the bathroom off limits will spinning reels is silly. Maybe I can flip it symetrically (the studio, not the bathroom). Hmmmm, good catch.

Now you all know why I posted the picture - I missed all of this!

Although I suppose real rock stars would likely use the couch while the drummer is tracking..

You have an ambitious and good looking plan there though.

Thank you!

 

[matty_boy]

Looks great. I am super envious. Are there going to be doors by the loading docks, or is equipment goint to be toted around the building. Also, having two doors into the bathroom by the reception area could be troublesome, but that is more just a pet peeve of mine I guess. Hate the idea of possibly walking in on someone if they forget to lock both doors.

 

[John Sayers]

Another point frederic is - if you are going to build a control room of this size surely you are going to soffit mount your speakers so you must allow for the speaker depth and installation across the front wall??

cheers
John

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Construction details

Hi frederic, this is probably too soon to think about, although I always think about details when I am designing. Its my thing, as I AM a detailer. Just curious what your doing in regards to actual construction. For one, I haven't seen any space in the rooms designed in for resonators, or diffusers, or other types of room treatments. Have you determined yet what you are going to use? Are you planning any floating walls or floors etc. I'm sure just getting a floor plan down is the first order of business. But from what I've seen on the net in regards to say slot resonators and diffusers, they can take up some serious floor space, at least the ones I've seen. Maybe thats not in your plan. But I thought I would throw that in, just in caseNot that I know shit about where to begin on that end of things. And your so knowledgeable in this regard, I understand you know what your doing. In fact, thats why I am asking, as this will be the first time I've seen an actual room within a room studio being designed
from the point of where your starting. And thats I'm looking forward to seeing how you detail some of the actual construction things, such as all the wall, floor, ceiling,
door, window, connections and any builtin acoustic devices, if any. Are you having contractors do all the work? How about any acoustical devices, are they going to be built by others? I would sure like to see those plans if your planning on acoustical construction. Well, enough questions for now. I'm anxious for you. So you don't have to be. Looking forward to seeing this built step by step!
fitz

 

[frederic]

Another point frederic is - if you are going to build a control room of this size surely you are going to soffit mount your speakers so you must allow for the speaker depth and installation across the front wall??

cheers
John

I'm an idiot!

 

[frederic]

Re: Construction details

Hi frederic, this is probably too soon to think about, although I always think about details when I am designing. Its my thing, as I AM a detailer. Just curious what your doing in regards to actual construction. For one, I haven't seen any space in the rooms designed in for resonators, or diffusers, or other types of room treatments. Have you determined yet what you are going to use?

The rooms that I have drawn on diagrams 1-20 (and now half of 21, which I attached - feel free to laugh at it, I certainly am) I have drawn the wall layouts, but not where resonators and bass traps and the like are going. The assumption I have made is that these items will be affixed to the surfaces of the interior of each room. Bass traps are the exception which just dawned on me when John mentioned soffit mounting the monitors. Of course I'm going to soffit mount the monitors. Did I draw it in? Nope

Are you planning any floating walls or floors etc. I'm sure just getting a floor plan down is the first order of business. But from what I've seen on the net in regards to say slot resonators and diffusers, they can take up some serious floor space, at least the ones I've seen.

Regarding walls and slot resonators, honestly, I haven't gotten that far yet.

The floor is easy - they will all float localized to the indivual room, i.e. the walls will be to the cement floor underneath. Then following John's studio design web page, the floors will float on rubber pucks and the usual wall surfaces that mate with that. Right now i'm just trying to get a basic layout in which I can tweak, having all the rooms I want to squeeze in there, yet have reasonable access to each. I did notice I never included a kitchenette and I tried really hard to not chop up the office area. As you can see from the attached diagram, I'm starting to seriously consider whacking some of that space. With what this is going to cost me in the end, moving a few non-supporting walls is nearly free by comparison.

Above the office space (12' high, 2' thick or thereabouts) is a cement slab with i-beams in it. It only covers the office space, but up there is where I'm going to mount/install the UPS system and batteries, and I'll probably move the office, storage and the like up there as well, and have a nice staircase installed that doesn't take a lot of space. One of those staircases that you travel up 6' on one side, walk around a banister, then travel up the addition 6 feet. In my case, 7' per side. Big stairs actually.

And your so knowledgeable in this regard, I understand

Why do you think my studio is called "MidiMonkey Productions"? I like Midi, and I'm a mere monkey Trust me, I don't know anywhere near as much as I might appear, its all in the writing style.

from the point of where your starting. And thats I'm looking forward to seeing how you detail some of the actual construction things, such as all the wall, floor, ceiling,

The final diagram will have all that. I'm just not there yet, I'm still on the first step - what goes where! And I'm learning quickly what my limitations are. Some things will be expensive to move, such as the bathroom in the center. Moving the walls around is easy, as is turning the fixtures around, but thats the only sewer pipe in the entire place, so the toilet goes there Stuff like that.

Are you having contractors do all the work? How about any acoustical devices, are they going to be built by others? I would sure like to see those plans if your planning on acoustical construction. Well, enough questions for now. I'm anxious for

Undecided. I have an ideal option that I surely cannot afford and while I can do it all myself, I do want the studio completed before the building needs to be condemmed So somewhere in the middle there is a compromising point between what I can afford and how long I'm willing to wait.

The only savings grace is the other side of the building (thats to the right of the diagrams, but not depicted), is already rented out and I got the first check this past tuesday.

And notice I forgot soffits AGAIN and have very poor access from room to room.

What I'm going to do this weekend is stop drawing for a while, and make a list of the rooms I want to put in there, their functions, and what access to other rooms they need. Then from there, maybe I can make some sense of this.

BTW thanks for the compliments on the drawing quality, I'm using boring old Visio. Drag and drop all the way!

 

[John Sayers]

Hey frederic don't get me wrong - I'm not meaning to be critical - what you are doing is the way to go - keep trying different layouts and pick out the parts that work - I do it all the time. Design s grow - they are like a plant that starts from a seed and eventually develops into a fully grown tree.

keep at it - you'll get it eventually

cheers
John

 

[John Sayers]

BTW - try reversing your control room design shape (both control rooms) - the walls should splay away from the speakers. as you've drawn them they are splaying inwards as opposed to outwards.

cheers
john