Mics for general stage work?

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oldrocker

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Hi, I have played in rock bands for too long to think about and am pretty cool about how to work our PA for live performances and recording. In recent years I have got involved with a local theatrical group also which does plays and musicals. Any kind soul know how can we do sound re-enforcement for these situations? If we have individuals singing we get them to step up to a vocal mike, SM57/8s or similar which is fine, or use a belt clip radio mike.
But what mikes should we use to pick up the general talking, acting and singing on stage? The backing band are off stage in a pit so we rarely need to beef them up. I have thought about a couple of condensors at the front of the stage or perhaps suspended above the stage. Anyone got any advice on this, would be very welcome? Alternative suggestions gratefully accepted!
Monitoring for the cast is also an issue but I don't really want to go there!
 
shotgun mics

a couple of shotgun mics sounds like it would help. Maybe 3, one either side of the stage & one above at stage centre

I have no experience with these mics at all but I'm sure there are others who have

I tried to get the local players group to do this BUT meh don't listen to me I only know what I'm talking about. The old school biddies ranting "we'll never ever use mics" & the modern thesps ranting "we need some sort of mic"
 
I've done a fair bit of FoH work for musicals myself, and while I've been the most happy with the Shure ULX series of transmitters and recievers with a Countryman mic head, that can run $1k per set. The lower end PGX series runs about half as much and it's not that bad. Though I'm fairly sure I saw the PGX set for less then what musiciansfriend was offering for them in a sweetwater catalog (around $350-400), but I couldnt find it on their site.

PGX link: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...ss-Instrument-System-with-Lavalier?sku=270671

And I've always hated using hanging mics (though I haven't tried shotgun micing). They pic up too much of what you dont want, and never enough of what you do want unless the conditions are perfect. And in live theater, they never are. Just stick with micing as many actors as possible.
 
Thanks guys, so far in 24 hrs you have given me more info about the subject than I had gathered talking to other musos in the last six months!
I will look into one or two of your ideas.
Is there another name for a shotgun mic? (You may have guessed that I am from the UK and I have not heard that term before.
regards
 
I followed a number of links about the Crown boundary mics as per SRR (thanks mate) and they seem totally suitable. Have you any knowledge of whether they are prone to picking up stage vibrations? The stage we work on is sprung (and hollow!) and my experience playing on it as a band is that we have to roll off loads of bass in the PA to avoid constant feedback and rumble.)As a bass playing singer with a deep voice this really irksme!)
cheers
 
oldrocker said:
(You may have guessed that I am from the UK and I have not heard that term before.
regards

hey welcome to the UK club, BTW I recorded an album in Lincoln Cathedral. Damn that was a setting and a half

I've only ever heard of them as shotgun mics
 
I see Lincoln Cathedral every day on way to work! very impressive, soon to star in The Da Vinci Code film.
 
oldrocker said:
I see Lincoln Cathedral every day on way to work! very impressive, soon to star in The Da Vinci Code film.

indeed, along with Roslyn Chapel where I also recorded an album
 
oldrocker said:
I followed a number of links about the Crown boundary mics as per SRR (thanks mate) and they seem totally suitable. Have you any knowledge of whether they are prone to picking up stage vibrations?
cheers

They do pretty well. You may have to roll a bit off, but nothing like a mic on a stand. Crown says this is due to good damping, and the verrrry small size of the diaphragm.

Their Boundary mic applications guide is really a good read, if you like things like that. It's on the Crown website, as a .pdf file, under Applications.

http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/appguides.htm

Lots of other goodies there too.
 
When I used the Crown PCC-160's, the only thing bad or some times good depending on your needs they had a tendency to pick up cliky shoes real good. Or in other words, if you had a stage full of tap dancers, just put up on the front of the stage 2-5 of the crowns depending of stage width, and you will have a very nice show. Other then that, no problems used on a stage area that wasn't 100% solid. We of course gave the main characters and singers wireless lapels, and just tweaked in wireless output a little bit so there wasn't a huge drop off in sound from mic'd people to the people who were just mic'd with the pcc-160s. They also work as upstage mics if hung and attached to some pexiglass. And you can even use that same set up for micing a audience, if you have access to catwalks above the audience 2 PCC-160's hung down a little bit mounted to pexiglass can do wonders for picking up croud sounds, thats of course only needed if you are recording the event. Oh one other down fall, tell your actors there is a 3 foot radius around the mic that they shouldn't be in. Other wise be ready to ride the faders. And with out mention, make sure they don't step on one, they are pretty durable just the clunk that it will make, makes the sound guy look stupid. Last bit of advice tape them down with some gaffers tape.
 
Oh and I have used the PCC-160's for sound reinforcement of a harp and I think I tried it in a kick drum once or twice. I don't remember much on the kick drum usage, but the harp did sound nice with it.
 
SRR said:
Oh and I have used the PCC-160's for sound reinforcement of a harp and I think I tried it in a kick drum once or twice. I don't remember much on the kick drum usage, but the harp did sound nice with it.


You can mount one under the drummer, and get a decent spread of the whole kit.

I have only done one "theater" type of performance, and it was for an old time radio show type of broadcast. The guy behind it got the idea from an old issue of db magazine. Anywya, we used Radio Shack PZM's and mounted them to the wooden backdrop and to the table that was onstage, and I'll be quite honest - I was really impressed with them.

Not the new "boundary" type of PZM's that RS sells, but the older Crown model with the removable steel plate.
One thing we did do, though was hardwire 9'volt connectors to the battery terminals, and used 9-volts instead of the AA batteries that they used.

Here's a post I did in 2000 regarding PZM mic's and a picture of the RS version to look for.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=245346&postcount=11


Tim
 
Hi all, just got back after a few days away to find more sound (pardon the pun!) advice.
You have all been a great help, I will have to see what we can afford for mics etc
 
Boundary mics will work OK, but often cause as many problems as they solve. Hanging mics in my opinion are a better option if the logistics of your facility permits it. The SHure mx202's are pretty widely used, and fairly inexpensive. Personally though, a couple of well placed small diaphragm condensors works the best. Shotgun mics are not often used for this sort of application as once again they usually create more problems than they solve, unless you have someone to constantly adjust them.
 
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