Mics/equipment purchase

[michigan~]

Hi,

I'm hoping to record a demo for my band. Our goal is to set up a home studio capable of producing good recordings that we can sell. I have read these forums a LOT and come up with a list of gear to order. Please keep in mind that our budget for this is $2000 and I have some good rooms to record in.

Instrumentation is drums, electric guitars, acoustic guitars, lead and backup vocals, saxophone, keyboards, electric bass.

Presonus Firestudio Project .. 465.00
MXL V69m .. 282.95
Audio Technica ATM 450 (2) .. 319.90
Sennheiser e609 (2) .. 199.90
Audix i5 .. 86.95
AKG D112 .. 179.95
Nady RSM2 ribbon .. 169.95
Mogami Gold Cables (6) .. 143.70
SE Electronics Pop Screen .. 39.95
Boom Stands (5), misc. .. 89.95
-------
$1978.20

Now for the discussion: Is there any way to improve this setup with different mics/equipment WITHOUT exceeding $2000? Is this setup (or another setup under $2000) capable of meeting our goals?

I have done the research necessary to make this purchase, I just need some opinions on the setup as a whole from those who have more experience

P.S. - I know we will have to buy monitors etc. later to mix the songs. Right now we're just worried about tracking.
P.P.S. - We plan to record everything individually, if that wasn't obvious from the number of mics

 

[CoolCat]

I was just reading some mic articles.
its a very safe bet to grab SM57's...snare, guitar cab's at $90 each.

then there's the Seinheisser 421 and the Shure SM7 that seems to be on platinum albums and yet all over the studio form a guitar amp to kick drum to vocal!! then if you want the "crisp" hi-end maybe get a ribbon cable or something...

maybe a 421 "or" a SM7....so you still have some cash left over.

I don't know, but I'd leave the experimentation for the pro's with money and comparisons....and go with "tried & true".


here's some mic stuff in a new article......

http://mixonline.com/recording/tracking/audio_maroon_2/

 

[michigan~]

Oh and P.S. - I already have 2 SM57's.

 

[dgatwood]

Upgrade the transformer on the RSM-2. It can make anywhere from a noticeable difference to a world of difference in the sound. I suggest the Lundahl LL2911 or 2912. The latter is much easier to wire in. Pretty easy mod unless you do something nuts like I did.

 

[cavedog101]

A list of gear does not in any way effect to possible outcome of a recording. The experience and knowledge of the user of the gear will have the largest impact on this.


Since you say you are going to record everything individually, why would you need anything more than a couple of mics, a decent preamp, a decent vocal channel, and good A/D/A conversion. You say you dont have monitors yet so I am assuming you are going to be working under phones for the tracking. I dont see a good set of phones in the budget.

As for the mic choices.....yes, an SM7B is a great mic. It needs a crapload of gain as it doesnt have a lot of output. This will require a preamp that doesnt put out its own set of noise at higher gain staging.

You can buy ALL of the drum mics you have listed used, for a lot less money and unless you know these particular mics firsthand I hope you demo them as best you can before purchasing them. The D112, while a very good kik drum mic, is very limited to what it SOUNDS like....so, if this is the sound you want you're good to go. If its not then you need to have some decent EQ available to get it where you want it. The i5 is a no-brainer and it works wonders on guitar amps.

Since your list doesnt really specify what your intentions are for the mics listed I can only assume due to the general opinions regularly bantered around about the uses of each.

Again, mic usage is entirely subjective and trial and error is the only real teacher.

 

[michigan~]

I understand that experience and knowledge will ultimately determine how good the recording will sound. That's why I've been reading these forums for a long time to learn as much as I can.

Basically what I'm looking for is a setup that will get the most bang for the buck as far as quality and usability of the equipment. Though I am recording all of the instruments (drums, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, electric bass, keyboards, sax, vocals) individually, I would like to have options and combinations of mics that I can use on different sources to achieve a sound that I like. I need versatility in the mics.

I already have some pretty expensive Shure headphones and a good pair of Sennheiser headphones to track with. I plan to get monitors to mix the tracks a bit later. I've also spent a lot of time reading peoples opinions on each mic and listening to samples of the mics on the net. That's about as close to knowing what they sound like as I get come right now.

Here is what I was planning to do with each mic:

MXL V69m - vocals, guitar amps (in combo with a dynamic?,) sax (in combination with ribbon?), some acoustic guitar

Audio Technica ATM 450 (2) - drum overheads, acoustic guitar, etc

Sennheiser e609 (2) - toms, maybe guitar amp,

Audix i5 - snare, maybe guitar amp

AKG D112 - bass drum, bass amp

Nady RSM2 ribbon - room mic, sax, combo with diff mics for different things

Obviously I would experiment to see which mics get the best sound when performing different tasks.

If i threw in an SM7 what would you recommend taking out? Do you have other recommendations for more versatile/better mics?

 

[kojdogg]

If i threw in an SM7 what would you recommend taking out? Do you have other recommendations for more versatile/better mics?

Why not get the MXL 960 instead of the V69ME? It's been established (first advanced by Harvey Gerst here) that they basically have the same electronics and capsule and that the 960's may have a more acoustically favorable body/grill while actually selling cheaper than the V69ME. I believe those are going for $150 at Musicians Friend. Also, if you just used the 57's you have for toms and amps instead of getting two e609's, that money saved plus the price difference from the 960 should be more than enough for an SM7b.

 

[Soundmind??]

Ditch the Mogami gold cable, way overpriced...any mid grade cable will do for half the price.

 

[dgatwood]

Ditch the Mogami gold cable, way overpriced...any mid grade cable will do for half the price.

I was going to say a tenth the price, but yeah. Agreed.

 

[Somnium7]

I didn't notice any software listed but you mentioned the Firestudio. Unless you are gonna run cracked programs it might be a good idea to leave room in your budget for some decent DAW and VST software. You'll find that no matter how staight ahead an approach you have for recording you'll always need to fix things in the mix. The better tools you have for that the less of a headache it will be.

 

[Lumpy]

I understand that experience and knowledge will ultimately determine how good the recording will sound. That's why I've been reading these forums for a long time to learn as much as I can.

Basically what I'm looking for is a setup that will get the most bang for the buck as far as quality and usability of the equipment...

Two SM57s, a minidisc recorder, two stands, a set of headphones,
and $10 worth of adaptors will record anything you want
for a total of about $200.

I think your statement that experience and knowledge
will "ultimately determine" is understated. It's not "ultimate"
at all. It's "essential".

Someone here has a great sigfile "If you can't make a hit
record on a XXX, you can't make it on a YYY". However
it reads, it's just way too correct.

The album below was recorded on a simple Korg multi tracker,
one mic, two pair of $9 headphones, two mic stands. Total
cost of equipment, about $800.

Lumpy
www.CraigAndHeather.net

 

[kojdogg]

I didn't notice any software listed but you mentioned the Firestudio. Unless you are gonna run cracked programs it might be a good idea to leave room in your budget for some decent DAW and VST software. You'll find that no matter how staight ahead an approach you have for recording you'll always need to fix things in the mix. The better tools you have for that the less of a headache it will be.

firestudio project is a hardware/software bundle with cubase le and a number of plugs and le applications, though i would say from my experience with previous "le" versions of cubase, that leaving $50 in your budget for reaper 2.x would be a great idea.

 

[Somnium7]

Thanks for the update kojdogg, I hadn't seen the product description till you mentioned it. I assumed it only came with the usual useless trial bundle packaged with most interfaces.

 

[kojdogg]

I agree with the spirit of your post Lumpy, but...

Two SM57s, a minidisc recorder, two stands, a set of headphones,
and $10 worth of adaptors will record anything you want
for a total of about $200.

I wouldn't recommend recording the OP's band with this set up if he has the means and wants to invest in a better setup. 57's are nice workhorse mics-- I have a couple of old USA unidyne III SM57's that I dig, but dynamics just can't offer the same kind of transient response that condensers can for things like drum overheads, acoustic instruments, etc. For many, but not all vocalists, this will be the case as well (some vocalists will sound better with good dynamics-- hence many folks' recommendations for sm7's). Plus minidisc is a dying format-- you wouldn't want to be locked into something like that.

Someone here has a great sigfile "If you can't make a hit
record on a XXX, you can't make it on a YYY". However
it reads, it's just way too correct.

I think it's something like XXX = Studer and YYY = Tascam or something to that effect. In either case it's a top of the line multitrack tape machine vs. a consumer grade one, not a top of the line multitrack tape machine vs. consumer grade tape recorder. That's my S.A.T. analogy analogy

The album below was recorded on a simple Korg multi tracker,
one mic, two pair of $9 headphones, two mic stands. Total
cost of equipment, about $800.

Lumpy
www.CraigAndHeather.net

It's nice, but it sounds like it's just vocals and guitar-- a somewhat different endeavor imho than the op's needs.
Incidentally, why did you need two mic stands for one mic ?

 

[docmattic]

ditch the v69 and get 2 mxl 960's. better sound half the price

musician123.com

 

[michigan~]

Two SM57s, a minidisc recorder, two stands, a set of headphones,
and $10 worth of adaptors will record anything you want
for a total of about $200.

I think your statement that experience and knowledge
will "ultimately determine" is understated. It's not "ultimate"
at all. It's "essential".

Someone here has a great sigfile "If you can't make a hit
record on a XXX, you can't make it on a YYY". However
it reads, it's just way too correct.

The album below was recorded on a simple Korg multi tracker,
one mic, two pair of $9 headphones, two mic stands. Total
cost of equipment, about $800.

Lumpy
www.CraigAndHeather.net

I know that experience is essential. There's really nothing I can do except gain experience and learn what I can on these forums. I have recorded the band a lot with a couple of 57's and a basic fostex multitracker.

Here is a post of a recording I did with 1 57 and a couple of crappy Fender P.A. mics months ago: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=240296

What about this list of mics as compared to the first:

MXL 960 - vocals, guitar amps (in combo with a dynamic?,) sax (in combination with ribbon?), some acoustic guitar

Audio Technica ATM 450 (2) - drum overheads, acoustic guitar, etc

Sennheiser e609 - high tom, maybe guitar amp,

Sennheiser e602 - floor tom, maybe bass cab if i want to mic it as well as the D.I.

Sennheiser mk421 - I like how this mic sounds on kick drum and guitar amps, and i've heard great stuff about it for a general dynamic mic

Nady RSM2 ribbon - room mic, sax, combo with diff mics for different things

(Keep in mind I have a couple 57's for snare, guitar amps, etc.)


Again, I would experiment to find which mics work best for which application. I just want to get the right mics so that I'll be covered for the different instruments in the band and have a little flexibility about which mics I use. Is this a better combination of mics?

As someone else said, the Firestudio Project comes with Cubase LE. What other software would you guys recommend? Someone mentioned Reaper...