Microphone Modeling - real world experience?

[laptoppop]

I've been looking into microphone modeling (specifically Antares) and I wonder if anyone with real world experience with it has any comments about some musing of mine:

1) the more similar a microphone is to the one you are trying to reproduce, the more likely you are to come closer to the reproduction - for example, to come closer to modeling a high end large diaphram condensor mike, use a large diaphram condensor mike as your input.

2) the emc8000 because its designed to be so flat, may be a darn good choice to record with if you are trying to model a medium size condensor.

3) microphone modeling may not reproduce ANY particular microphone exactly, but it could still help give the sound you desire.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
-lee-

 

[Track Rat]

Lee, I have the Anteres modeler and it has some uses but modeling microphones isn't one of them. You can't turn a ECM8000 into a U-47. But it can be used to change the timber a bit of recorded sound. I've used it on things like guitar tracks that were too harsh to round them off and things like that. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have bought it. Anteres auto tune on the other hand is indespensable.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Just consider mic modelling another effect to play with. Not a replacement for good mics.

 

[chessrock]

glorified eq

I've used it mostly as an eq tool. Some mics are desirable not as much for their sound quality, but for their freq. curves. The 57 is a good example of a mic who's curve happens to be ideally suited for electric guitar and snare drum, for example.

Well, suppose your 57 gets lost, but you were smart and had an extra ecm8000 lying around. In a pinch, you could just use that, and try modeling it to the 57 and see if you like it.

Probably a more likely use would be to model a 57 or something else to a d112 if your bass drum mic was out of commission.

But then none of this is anything you can't do with eq, I suppose.

 

[laptoppop]

So far, sounds like what I tried to say in point 3 -- its more an effect than a reliable way to get a sound like a particular mic. I really appreciate the comments from folks that have it before I put out my own money!

Its supposed to model a whole lot more than just EQ -- attack, transient response, etc... not having seen the code, I dunno.

I still wonder if it works best if you are using something close to the mic you want it to sound like as your input mic. Seems like that would be the best possibility for it working well. I don't see it turning a $50. mic into a $5,000. mic, but I wonder if it can make a $500. mic sound pretty darn close to a $1,000. mic....

Just a thought,
-lee-

 

[Gargamel]

First amp modeling.....now mic modeling. Mic Modeling is basically a boutique EQ with some presets named Neuman, AKG ...blah blah blah. I actually enjoy using the antares mic modeling plug in. It has its uses. I've hooked quite a few guitar tracks with it. But please do not fall for the corporate brainwashing marketing tactics the try to get us to believe that we can make a CRAP 3000 TUBE MIC sound like a u87. They are insulting our intelligence with that drivel. One would be better off to be patient and save some cash to buy a solid pre and a couple of decent mics.

 

[chessrock]

. . . I wonder if it can make a $500. mic sound pretty darn close to a $1,000. mic....

They already do.

 

[Guardian]

fun

Like people are saying, it's an effect..and from what i know, they don't even have an ECM8000 preset..you need to pick your source mic, if they have it..and then pick a destination..you CAN do some fun stuff, like crank up the 'tube' setting, to add some distortion, and say you recorded a guitar amp with an MD421, you could then clone the track, and model it to a 57, and then mix the 2, and pan them around..it's a toy to have, but nothing you couldn't do with careful EQ..it seems likely the presets are just EQ settings...like -3 @ 15hz on the source, and the destination maybe is -3.1 .. it would dip 15hz by .1 ...etc

It's not worth the money however, in my opinion.

-Sal

 

[chessrock]

They don't have the ecm8000 listed, but they do have two earthworks models to choose from. I'd think you could use the ecm8000 and use one of the earthworks' as your "source mic" instead. Both have very similar, flat freq. curves, so results would be very close.

 

[Guardian]

ah

good call..I forgot about Behringer's philosophy..copy copy copy

--Sal

 

[Griffinator]

Did any of you consider the Mic Modeler as a very quick and effective "doubler"?

Instead of recording two individual guitar or vocal tracks that mirror each other, clone the channel you want to double - use the Mic Modeler on one side with a drastically different mic setting and some distance and a touch of drive - blammo - instant re-tracking! Repeat as desired, for that extra thick tracking....

 

[ap]

The latest HomeRecording, April 2002, has an article on Todd Rundgren in which he says he's been using an AKG digital mic alot.

" "Obviously the advantage of a mic like that is the digital signal path, which is completly pristine," says Rundgren. "Utilizing that and the supposedly flat charactieristics of the mic, I can do mic modeling with Pro Tools and Antares Microphone Modeler and essentially have it behave like any mic that I want. So I'm looking at this being the potential future of recording-the ability to standardize on some smaller range of microphone by applying modeling to them as necessary."

 

[pratt]

I think that the mic modeler is a fun tool...I don't use it with the exact intention of getting a cheaper mic to sound like a more expensive mic (well, sometimes maybe)...but rather to just make the cheaper mic sound better...though I must say I use an AudioTechnia drum 'kitpac' mic for my bass drum....and when I model it to 'sound' like a Shure Beta 52 or AKG D112...it actually does a pretty admirable job (having recorded with both Beta52s and D112s)...

I don't think that the modeler does anything that you couldn't do with some good EQ, etc....but it's a nice all-in-one package


griffinator - yes, I've done that quite alot - not just with the mic modeler though - you can do the same with alot of different 'effects'; sometimes I'll copy&paste the guitar track to another track - pan the original track a bit left - add some processing to the second guitar track (eg. slight chorus) and pan it a bit right - this really widens/thickens up the mix....you can also do stuff like pitch-shift the second track....doesn't always work real well...but can be fun to fool around with

 

[laptoppop]

Re: fun

Like people are saying, it's an effect..and from what i know, they don't even have an ECM8000 preset

Not that it changes anything much, but there are the mics that ship with the product, and then other mics that have been modeled that you can download. The ECM8000 is available for free download. My thought is that because it is designed to be pretty darn flat, it is a good starting point for EQ modifications.

-lee-

 

[Guardian]

where?

Antares only has like 5-6 'packs' of models, and the ECM8000 isn't in any of them..?

-Sal

 

[laptoppop]

Interesting - I don't have the plugin, so I saw from the front page on their website that it was one of the ones for download, but I don't see it in the packs either.

Maybe the 8500 is close enough? Especially since this is just an effect, afterall

-lee-

 

[Griffinator]

Re: where?

Antares only has like 5-6 'packs' of models, and the ECM8000 isn't in any of them..?

-Sal

each of those packs have some 40 mic models in each of them - you gotta understand, Antares was shooting for the vintage mics first, now they're working more towards getting current with their available mics...

 

[Guardian]

hmm?

We must be thinking of different things..those packs have like 5 models each...? These are the 'packs' I see available on their site, www.antarestech.com, and the mics they include...there's no Behrginer ECM8000..??

-Sal

AKG SolidTube
Audix SCX-one
Shure Beta 58
Soundelux U95S

AEA R44C
Audix CX-111
Behringer XM8500
Tannoy Large Ribbon

Audix D-1
CAD VSM1
Neumann U89i
Tannoy Small Ribbon

Audix OM-6
Brauner Valvet
Oktava MK-219

Beyerdynamic M500
Electro-Voice RE55
Neumann M147

AKG C 535 EB
Audio Technica AT4051
Shure SM98A
(no polar mod)

AKG C 12 VR
AKG C 12 VR (w)
Neumann TLM 103

AKG The Tube
Earthworks QTC1
Electro-Voice RE15

Electro-Voice RE16
Electro-Voice N-D868
Marshall MXL 2001P

 

[Riku]

Hey guys

Behringer XM8500 is is abit different mic compared to ECM8000
http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=XM8500&lang=eng

It is dynamic one....

Let's ask Antares that they could make model out of ECM8000...