Microphone feedback. Ouchies!

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mikeeb

Whats the best RAP MIC??!
Whats up guys. My question should be pretty easy for you guys. I have an sm7b hooked up to my DMP3 which was then hooked up to my amp. When my band would play live, the singing would be way to low, so I would go from the low impedance switch to high impedance. Then, trying to get as loud as I could, I would slowly raise the volume knob. Meanwhile, my amp that it was hooked up to was very low. So I try to change the volume on both to get it louder, and I get a terrible screech. What could I do to avoid this awful feedback from the microphone while playing live. I need to go as loud as I can, so what is the deal. Thanks!
-Mikee
 
Don't point the mic at the speakers. Do make sure the speakers are in front of all microphones and are pointed away from the microphones. If you're still getting too much feedback, use EQ to cut out parts of the signal as needed. A graphic EQ can be useful for this sort of thing.
 
the mic picks up the sound coming from the speakers and that creates a loop that causes feedback. keep the mic away from the PA speakers. if you're in a small room there's not much you can do. just play at lower volumes. i bet your playing too loud anyway.
 
Whats up guys. My question should be pretty easy for you guys. I have an sm7b hooked up to my DMP3 which was then hooked up to my amp. When my band would play live, the singing would be way to low, so I would go from the low impedance switch to high impedance. Then, trying to get as loud as I could, I would slowly raise the volume knob. Meanwhile, my amp that it was hooked up to was very low. So I try to change the volume on both to get it louder, and I get a terrible screech. What could I do to avoid this awful feedback from the microphone while playing live. I need to go as loud as I can, so what is the deal. Thanks!
-Mikee

Everything you're describing is a recipe for feedback. Make sure the mic is behind the amp...the amp shouldn't be behind you firing into the mic. :eek:

Frank
 
thanks guys! Frank, do you have any other tips to help get as loud as I can without having feedback?
 
Every system, no matter how large or small, regardless of the space has a potential for gain before feedback. How that system is setup, how things are positioned, the equipment used and the skill of the operator plays large into how high or low that potential is. The number one way to avoid feedback is through positioning. Make sure that the mic is never in front of the mains. That said, if you're trying to get 125dB out of a tiny club, feedback will be a part of your show. No way to avoid it.

Frank
 
Mikeeb, what are you using for an amp? You need a PA that is designed for an XLR mic input. The DMP-3 puts out a +4dBu line level signal. Does your amp have an input called "line in"? If not, you have a major impedence matching issue.-Richie
 
Hey Richie. I have 2 different amps that I try. First is a small peavy $100 amp. The next is a crate v32 palomino. It is a big white one. I just use the 1/4'' cable from the line out of the DMP3 into the input jack on the palamo or the peavey. I would like to use the peavey for vocals so I could use the tube for the guitar but idk, you tell me. This will not work? I really do not have the funds to buy a PA system, is there any way around this?
 
Unfortunately, no. A guitar amp is not intended for use with a microphone, as a rule. Instrument inputs are not mic inputs, and they aren't line level either. PA's often have instrument inputs as well as mic inputs, but damn few guitar amps have mic inputs (and they are usually acoustic guitar amps, not electric guitar amps). Aside from that, guitar amps are usually designed to produce distortion on purpose, even on the "clean" channel, the last thing you want in a PA. Your biggest problem, aside from lack of money, is that you are trying to use equipment for purposes it wasn't designed for. And- you are trying to plug equipment into other equipment that it is not compatible with. Some guitar amps have a line level input, which is usually -10dBV. That's consumer line level-what a cassette, CD, or MP3 player puts out of its headphone jack or "line out". If you had that, the lower output switch on the DMP-3 would be (sort of) compatible with it. No amount of wishful thinking, however, is going to make a line output and an instrument output the same thing. And- plugging a perfectly good recording mic preamp into the instrument jack of a guitar amp could potentially damage both pieces of equipment.-Richie
 
Alright so I guess the question is, do you have any recommendations for a good cheap microphone amp?
 
Have a look around for an active speaker with a mike input . . . that's probably the most economical option for you. EV, DB, Yamaha and others make pretty good models . . . though they can get a bit pricey. But I expect there are budget ones around. As time goes on, you may be able to afford another, then a small desk.
 
OK, it's time for a basic PA tutorial. Every PA, from small and cheap to huge and Oh-My-God, has certain components- A mic preamp with one or more mic inputs, a power amp, and one or more speakers. The preamp raises the weak mic level output to line level (like your DMP-3). The power amp raises the line level signal to something that can drive the speaker array. Most PA's also contain some EQ, which can boost or cut (attenuate) specific frequency bands to improve sound and help control feedback. They often also include basic FX (effects), such as reverb, delay, or compression.

There are several ways a PA can be configured. The system always ends with speakers, which are either active, which means the power amp is built into the speaker, or passive, which means the speakers need a power amp somewhere else to get their power. The mic inputs into a mixer, which controls the relative levels of the mic inputs. The mixer can be powered, which means it contains a power amp to drive speakers, or unpowered, which means it needs a separate power amp. A powered mixer that is designed only to drive PA speakers is called a PA head.

So, it can work in any of these ways:

1: Unpowered mixer > power amp > passive speaker

2: Powered mixer/PA Head > passive speaker

3: Unpowered mixer > active speaker

The speaker described by the previous poster is an active speaker with a built-in mic preamp, but they are not as common, and as he says, likely to be pricey. I got it- pricey is right out.

The other factors to be considered here, other than overall quality, is component matching, partacularly impedence and power matching. Impedence will be expressed in Ohms. If an amp has an 8 ohm output, it wants to be plugged into an 8 ohm speaker. PA speakers are usually 4 ohms or 8 ohms. Power matching is also critical. Plugging a 400 watt amp into a speaker designed to handle 80 watts is a prescription for trouble. The speakers will usually use a 1/4" jack, like a guitar amp, or a speakon connector, a specialized connector used almost exclusively for live speaker arrays.

So we get down to- what can work for you? Obviously you are a beginner in this area, so trying to match components without the technical knowledge is, IMHO, a bad idea. You need components that are already designed to work together. Secondly, money is a big issue. I can't make that go away, but the good news is that small PA systems are a hell of a lot cheaper than they used to be. In 1980, I paid $800 for a *used* 100 watt PA system, and that was an OK deal. Today, if I did that, anyone on this board would call me a sucker.

Next question- how much power do you really need? The good news is- not that much. We are talking about a practice PA, which would normally be used in a small room for practice, or for a solo acoustic artist to do a coffee house. That's about 80-250 watts. A serious band doing a good sized club would need 1000+ watts. Also note that watts will be expressed as program power (the home stereo people will say RMS), or as peak or peak music power. The program power is what we are talking about, that's what you can use. Peak power is what an amp puts out about 1 second before it blows up! Oddly enough, if you stay in the music scene, you'll find uses for a very small PA that you never anticipated, once you learn how to connect different pieces of equipment. The main speakers, which initially are your whole system, may be pressed into service as stage monitors later on, when you own a bigger PA. All of that said, here's a system that could meet your current needs:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Squier-4Channel-PA-System?sku=608003

I could get you down to about $200, but the system is so cheap, and the company that builds it so fly-by-night, that I can't recommend it at all. I wouldn't be doing you any favors. If a Fender product breaks, you have a fighting chance to get if fixed under warranty. Is it powerful? No. You can't afford power right now, and you need a PA. It should work fine with your SM7b. If the budget goes up, I can scale recommendations up to match it-easily. In conclusion, here's a link that will give you a more complete and more complicated explanation of the tutorial above, with a glossary:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document?doc_id=99523

What you need now, more than anything else, is knowledge, because people on the board who are trying to help you are assuming that you know stuff that you don't. For instance, the poster above mentioned a "desk". That is a term for a good sized mixer. When it gets big enough to impress girls with all your cool knobs and dials, we call it a "recording console". Best of luck. We have all been broke, we have all been clueless, and we all started somewhere.-Richie
 
Wow Richie I truly appreciate you taking the time to help me so in depth. I guess I will start saving up and hopefully when I get like 400 or 500 bucks I can buy something pretty okay. Thanks again man
 
Here's an example of a reasonably priced active speaker with a mike input:

http://www.proaudio.com/product_info.php?products_id=5407

Interestingly, Richard notes the terminology . . . I referred to 'desk'. There are many terms used: mixer, mixing desk, desk, recording console and so on. There is a usage that could vary acording to the size of the device, but I think there may be a geographical factor. Where I am (Australia), most of my mixing and recording colleagues refer to all mixers as 'desks', irrespective of their size.
 
Quite right, Gecko! Even when we are not using jargon, there are regional differences in terminology- eg.-your "valve", my "vacuum tube". My point here, is that when you are dealing with a guy who is jacking the +4 line level output of a mic pre into the instrument input of a guitar amp, you have to be careful about the words you use, whether they be jargon, slang, or just the specialized technical terminology of this hobby we all love. We can easily hand out a complete and correct answer that does the bloke no good at all. And of course, we all ultimately fail. Every one of us, certainly including myself, is guilty of using terms that can go right over the heads of newbies. On the other hand, when we try to avoid that by defining our terms in layman's language, we can be perceived as talking down to people who actually know quite a bit. In the end, you can't win, you can only try. And I hope you didn't think I was on your case about it, it just came to me that most likely, when Mikeeb sees the word "desk", he is visualizing a piece of furniture.
In the end, one of the reasons I try so hard to help people like Mikeeb is that I'm not really that far from where he is. I'm no engineer, and the finer points of electronics are totally lost on me also. The advantage I have is that I've been jury-rigging rock and roll equipment since before the invention of recording tape, and I've learned how to make things work-mostly. I find that not having advanced technical knowledge often makes it easier for me to explain things so that the technically challenged can get it. I don't know enough to really confuse people. The other reason is that Mikeeb, like so few of the clueless, understands that I am trying to help him, and is grateful for the help.

There are more than enough people asking similar questions on this board who respond to reality checks with arrogance and hostility. As long as I have something to offer that is relevent, and Mikeeb doesn't kick me in the teeth for trying to help him, I'll be there for him. And that goes for anybody. That's also why my first album's credits include some thanks to a number of posters on this board who went out of their way to help me when I was a little more clueless than I am now.-Richie
 
Heres a novel idea...Sell the peavy and get a roauge PA from Musicians friend...they are arround $150
 
That looks pretty sweet. Low cost and pretty solid reviews. If i went from my mic to my pre amp to that, it would work good? What if I went from my mic to my pre amp to the yamaha to my peavy which I guess would be the active part of the set up?

Thanks again for takin time to help me
 
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