Micing guitar cabs

  • Thread starter Thread starter PlnsMstkn4Jacob
  • Start date Start date
P

PlnsMstkn4Jacob

New member
Two questions:

Do most of you prefer to crank your guitar amp super loud(like the volume you would use when practicing or gigging) or do you like to keep it relatively quiet? I know lately I have preferred the results of turning it up super loud. I recorded a punk band and did this and it made for a much heavier brighter tone. This was a tube amp and as most of us know tube amps sound way better cranked up loud.

Other question, what do most of you use as far as mic's and mic placement on guitar amps? I'm currently using a Sennheiser e609 towards the edge of the speaker, it sounds pretty good but if I wanted to upgrade, what mic should I upgrade to? I'm seeking bright tones.
 
I use lots of mics. Usually a few dynamics and a few Condensors. I like the e609, an sm57, an MD421 the Beyer M201, SDC's I usually use a few feet out and LDC's I use at distance. I've used up to 8 mics on one speaker... I know people who use 4 per amp with 8 amps all at the same time...that's 24 mics for one track!

I know people who say the best sound you'll get on the grill is a Large Diaphragm Dynamic like an MD421 or the SM7 or RE20 in conjunction with a sm57/e609 and a ribbon of some sort like Royer's 121 or the Nady series...then have at least one dynamic at distance....

Jacob
 
doesnt it take a lote of care to own a ribbon mic? what if the ribbon breaks?

i currently use an e609, i have sm57's but i dont use them as much. im looking to get an md421 soon. i've never seen someone say an re20 for a guitar cab. that was a first for me to hear. im also having problems finding a beyr m201 :/
 
AKG D770 $55
E609 $90
EV ND468 $140 (my current favorite....hotter and crisper and more accurate than the others I've tried on my amp....beats the SM57 hands down)

The large diaphragm mic like an RE20 or MD421 would sound good if you are going to crank it up loud. They handle the extra SPL better than a smaller dynamic mic will, but you'll have to adjust your tone slightly because they are not as bright as a small dynamic.
 
If you are talking distorted rythym guitars using master-volume amps with a lot of pre-amp gain, I've found the way to a bigger sound is less gain than you would think...it also allows the EQ section of the amp to be more useful to get your brighter tone. (New strings help a lot, too.) Ever notice that AC/DC's guitar sound is so huge and cutting, while a lot of hi-gain metal sounds kinda thin and Fisher-Pricey? Megadeth comes to mind, or early Ozzy...tiny-sounding. That's because AC/DC's rythym guitars are basically pretty clean.

One guitar stompbox that every studio should have, IMO, is the Z-Vex Super Hard-On. It is not a very exciting pedal, basically it is a signal booster, but it's best feature is HUGE input impedence. So it keeps the magnetic field of the pickups around the strings instead of leaking down the cable. Instant brightener. Takes the blanket off the amp. I use it on every electric guitar I record. That's what you should get before a new mic.

The other great thing is, it is basically a preamp. It has two outs, so one goes to the amp, and one goes into an insert and gets recorded direct in case any re-amping is needed. One thing, though...its volume knob basically re-biases the circuit, so it crackles. Loudly.
 
corso said:
If you are talking distorted rythym guitars using master-volume amps with a lot of pre-amp gain, I've found the way to a bigger sound is less gain than you would think...it also allows the EQ section of the amp to be more useful to get your brighter tone. (New strings help a lot, too.) Ever notice that AC/DC's guitar sound is so huge and cutting, while a lot of hi-gain metal sounds kinda thin and Fisher-Pricey? Megadeth comes to mind, or early Ozzy...tiny-sounding. That's because AC/DC's rythym guitars are basically pretty clean.

One guitar stompbox that every studio should have, IMO, is the Z-Vex Super Hard-On. It is not a very exciting pedal, basically it is a signal booster, but it's best feature is HUGE input impedence. So it keeps the magnetic field of the pickups around the strings instead of leaking down the cable. Instant brightener. Takes the blanket off the amp. I use it on every electric guitar I record. That's what you should get before a new mic.

The other great thing is, it is basically a preamp. It has two outs, so one goes to the amp, and one goes into an insert and gets recorded direct in case any re-amping is needed. One thing, though...its volume knob basically re-biases the circuit, so it crackles. Loudly.
Click to expand...
im a little confused at how this works. so its almost like a DI box?

so this box , in the signal chain would go:

guitar > super hard-on > amp > mic > preamp


im not sure if i made that make sense, but would this require blending the mic and the direct signal from the hardon? or am i miscontruing what you said. the way i understand is that either its blending the sound with a mic, or your basically bypassing the amp all together.

or do you place it between the mic and the preamp/insert:

mic > super hardon > insert

i would love a more indepth explanation, as i am very interested in this item.
 
If I turn up too loud it really kills the recording because there is too much sound pressure in my small room. Of course the amp sounds better when it's louder so it's a bit of a trade off.
 
thexflamesxburn said:
im a little confused at how this works. so its almost like a DI box?

so this box , in the signal chain would go:

guitar > super hard-on > amp > mic > preamp


im not sure if i made that make sense, but would this require blending the mic and the direct signal from the hardon? or am i miscontruing what you said. the way i understand is that either its blending the sound with a mic, or your basically bypassing the amp all together.

or do you place it between the mic and the preamp/insert:

mic > super hardon > insert

i would love a more indepth explanation, as i am very interested in this item.
Click to expand...

You are right both times. It's just a stompbox from a high end boutique pedal maker, Zachary Vex. He makes a bunch of cool, weird pedals,which are handpainted, signed and dated etc. The most "boring" thing he makes is the Super Hard On, which means it's probably the most useful.

So, yeah. It has two outputs, and one goes to the amp and the other one is like a DI. That track can be used later with an amp-simulation plug-in, or for "re-amping" which is where you send that track out to a guitar amp and record it again. I have never in my life actually done that, but it's pretty common. So, I record a track of direct guitar "just in case". And, yes, there is a delay between direct guitar and a miked amp. Sometimes it sounds good, has a thickening effect. If it sounds bad, in a digital audio program you have to nudge the files to line them up.

But as for the SHO, it is in my live guitar rig, too. If you use it first in line after the guitar, it has that brick-wall impedence effect. Makes weak, muddy pickups sound brighter, and it has a LOT of boost. It is basically a buffer/preamp/line driver, so first in line it will negate the tone loss from a lot of pedals or long cables.

It has to be used first in line for it to work that way, though, otherwise it is just a line driver. It sounds great slamming overdrive pedals, which in turn slam the amp. Big Fun.
 
corso said:
That track can be used later with an amp-simulation plug-in, or for "re-amping" which is where you send that track out to a guitar amp and record it again. I have never in my life actually done that, but it's pretty common.
Click to expand...

That's really odd that you mention that, because just last night I had the idea of doing that, but I wasn't sure if it's even something you can do. I have some guitar tracks recorded that sound bad but I want to "re-amp" them, but i guess I can't do that unless it's being done with the D.I. signal. What does the D.I. signal sound like recorded? Like the sound of strumming your strings without your guitar plugged into an amp?
 
Sort of...it sounds like a very clean electric guitar. Basically what you are doing is recording exactly what your amplifier would be "amplifying". So if you send that track into the input of a guitar amp, it would, all things being equal, sound the same as if you were plugged in and playing...but instead, it is the recording playing. The idea being you could try different amps and really dial in a sound you like, because the performance remains the same.
 
Well from your description, it sounds like you made use of the equal loudness curve without knowing it.

Basically, it's a concept that states how we perceive a source's eq response at different volumes. The higher you go, the more level the response might *seem*, but that's not always a good thing.

Also, the higher you go, the more compression you enforce on the microphone's diaphram. So you probably enabled a natural compression from high volume.

Kind of like when your ear drums "charlie horse" to protect themselves from high volumes. So the end result is an edgy and more "impactful" guitar.

Not that it's always nessessary or advisable.

-If you need brightness, then you already know you're probably going to go with some type of condenser. Also look into the difference between tube and solid state.

-If you want a thicker coverage, then you know you're going to need a large diaphram.

-Alot of great guitar sounds where a combination of emaculate EQ, microphone layering, environment (especially at loud volumes), microphone preamp selection and added FX.

At the other end of the spectrum,

Some great sounds where just one shitty microphone, mixer and recorder.

So those are some things to think about before you buy.
 
My advice is simple. Slowly build up to having a lot of mics, all different. Know every mic you own exactly how it is. Get a good incoming sound (this one I know everyone has heard before and most of you say well I know I should do that thats obvious, but most people overlook this even though they "know" they should do it. It may take hours or days to get this. And it could be at loud or soft volumes). Don't be affraid to experiment with a mic (got a 57? sounds bad up close? move it away 3 feet and see how it sounds). And combine features (a dynamic sdc and ldc are going to sound very different, Combined they could pick up everything that you need covered).

A couple of weeks ago I was doing a mic test on guitar amps with a 57 up close an mxl 603s up close, and a shure ksm 27 above the speaker facing it about 4 inches away so also up close. Each mic sounded odd on its own: 57 was edgy with no high end or bass, big mid boost. MXL was very high tinny and thin, no low end. KSM was very scooped with tons of low end and a natural high. All together they spaced well and created the greatest representation from the amp, but muting one track would completely ruin it.

Ben
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top