I am micing drum sets in small rooms using a Shure Beta 52 for the kick, a Shure SM-57 for the snare and two AKG C-1000s as overheads. I'm recording with a Fostex VF-16 digital multitracker. Any someone give me some advice on placement? I have been putting the Beta 52 about half way into the kick drum air hole... it sounds pretty good, but it seems to be missing that slap I want. Also, does having blankets in the kick drum affect this? I tend to put enough blankets in to take out some of the "boom". I have been putting the 57 facing straight down about an inch from the head in the upper left corner of the snare... this seems to sound okay, but maybe too much low end and not enough high end. I have been placing the C-1000s on the left and right sides of the kits... the left side about one or two feet above the high hat and pointing down towards it and the snare. On the right side I place it about one or two feet above the ride pointing down towards it and a low tom. I get a nice stereo sound... cymbals sound great, but toms sound kind of weak.
Micing Drums
- Thread starter Accroya
- Start date
Markd102
New member
Accroya
In my limited experience in recording drums, I've found that with overheads, you go for one of two things. A good tom sound, which will make your cymbals sound like gongs..... or a good cymbal sound, which will make the rest of the drums sound thin.
I go for the latter and mic the toms separately. You've got to remember that you are recording ONE instrument, so go for a good but thin mix from just the overheads, making sure your cymbals are nice and brite without cutting too much, then bring in kick, snare and toms to round out the sound. It's the opposite theory to live mixing and can take a while to get out of the habbit.
I'm not familiar with the Fostex, but if you can't record up to 8 tracks simaltaneously, you'll have to use an external mixer. You really need a minimum of 6 tracks to record a kit properly in stereo. 2xoverheads, kick, snare and stereo tom mix. Ideally you should have separate tracks for each tom and also add a hi-hat mic and a room mic.
I've found the new and well tuned skins are very important. Also the way the drummer strikes the drum. A good drummer will make an ordinary kit sound OK simply because he hits it right. There are so many variables that you'll get different results every time you record. drummer/drums/skins/tuning/room/mics. Hell....I've got some killer drum sounds doing desk tapes live in a nice big stage/room with just a kick and one overhead. Many old recordings were done with one mic placed in front of the kit.
Ultimately you need to experiment with mic placement and EQ and see what works best in your environment. If you're in a dead room, go for more mics... if you're in a "live" room go for less.
Hope this helps.
Mark
In my limited experience in recording drums, I've found that with overheads, you go for one of two things. A good tom sound, which will make your cymbals sound like gongs..... or a good cymbal sound, which will make the rest of the drums sound thin.
I go for the latter and mic the toms separately. You've got to remember that you are recording ONE instrument, so go for a good but thin mix from just the overheads, making sure your cymbals are nice and brite without cutting too much, then bring in kick, snare and toms to round out the sound. It's the opposite theory to live mixing and can take a while to get out of the habbit.
I'm not familiar with the Fostex, but if you can't record up to 8 tracks simaltaneously, you'll have to use an external mixer. You really need a minimum of 6 tracks to record a kit properly in stereo. 2xoverheads, kick, snare and stereo tom mix. Ideally you should have separate tracks for each tom and also add a hi-hat mic and a room mic.
I've found the new and well tuned skins are very important. Also the way the drummer strikes the drum. A good drummer will make an ordinary kit sound OK simply because he hits it right. There are so many variables that you'll get different results every time you record. drummer/drums/skins/tuning/room/mics. Hell....I've got some killer drum sounds doing desk tapes live in a nice big stage/room with just a kick and one overhead. Many old recordings were done with one mic placed in front of the kit.
Ultimately you need to experiment with mic placement and EQ and see what works best in your environment. If you're in a dead room, go for more mics... if you're in a "live" room go for less.
Hope this helps.
Mark
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
if you have another sm57 put it on the beater to get the click...pretty close...if there still isnt enuff click ive heard of people taping a coin or something to the head to help out......then you can use the 52 for the bottom end.....
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39030&highlight=drum
http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/1997_articles/dec97/drumiking1.html
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/7CA9E089FD033AE78625699C006D968A
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39030&highlight=drum
http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/1997_articles/dec97/drumiking1.html
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/7CA9E089FD033AE78625699C006D968A
John Sayers
Solar Power!!
As you only have overheads i'd mike it differently. Keep the kick and snare but put one C1000 about a foot above the high tom(s) and the other about the same over the floor tom. Get the drummer to hit the Snare and balance the mikes so the snare is center in the monitors., now add the snaremike and the kick. Ajust the height of the C1000s so the toms are balanced. Because they are low to the cymbals (i.e. off mike) the cymbals will soften providing they are mounted high. Set the level of the stereo overheads so the toms are at the right balance.
cheers
john
cheers
john
Accroya,
I have a slightly different approach for you to try.
I believe that if the drums sound good to begin with, all you need to do is capture them.
To do that, I would put the 1000s in an x/y pattern about 4 feet infront of the kit. Use the height (or angle relative to the ground...) you place them at to balance the volume of the parts of the kit. Then use your spot mikes on the kick and snare to bring them into focus.
Maybe I'm the lone ranger, but I don't think "overheads" always have to be overhead.
Try it, it may work.
Another thought... With the setup you detailed, you could be having some phase problems with your overhead mics and your snare mic.
I have a slightly different approach for you to try.
I believe that if the drums sound good to begin with, all you need to do is capture them.
To do that, I would put the 1000s in an x/y pattern about 4 feet infront of the kit. Use the height (or angle relative to the ground...) you place them at to balance the volume of the parts of the kit. Then use your spot mikes on the kick and snare to bring them into focus.
Maybe I'm the lone ranger, but I don't think "overheads" always have to be overhead.
Try it, it may work.
Another thought... With the setup you detailed, you could be having some phase problems with your overhead mics and your snare mic.
harley96
New member
I need some advice!!!!
Last night, I started recording a hardcore band in my studio and man there is a major difference in recording this kind of band versus a good old rock n roll band.I spent probably 2 hrs trying to get the kit to sound right before we rolled any tape. Normally, I leave eq out until mixdown whenever possible but the drums needed to sound metallic right from the get go so the drummer could feel his double kick and tom rolls the way they normally sound when playing live. He and the rest of the band were using headphones and double kick, and toms without eq kind of threw the whole band off in there headphone mix. So, I eq'd everything to portray a live situation and that helped to keep them tight in the headphone mix but that also went to tape with the eq. I am wondering I have a Mackie 24/8 and there is a mix b bus.Can I use the mix b bus with full eq control and send that to the cans and monitors while recording without eq? Then on playback after the session use "eq in" on each channel strip that I applied eq to in the cans so they will hear the tape playback with the eq settings they had in there cans?This way in there cans during recording there hearing what they want to hear than on playback there hearing what they want to hear all the while eq is not on the tape? Sorry, when I bought the board the owner's manual was missing and mackie manuals tend to be more confusing than helpful.Anyway's, I used a d112 for kick, at4041 hi hat, sm57 snare,toms1,2,3, octava mc012's for overheads xy configuration and Thursday I think I'm going to place the overheads farther apart over the cymbals as to pick up more of the cymbals than toms and the rest of the kit considering the toms and everything else are already miced.
Last night, I started recording a hardcore band in my studio and man there is a major difference in recording this kind of band versus a good old rock n roll band.I spent probably 2 hrs trying to get the kit to sound right before we rolled any tape. Normally, I leave eq out until mixdown whenever possible but the drums needed to sound metallic right from the get go so the drummer could feel his double kick and tom rolls the way they normally sound when playing live. He and the rest of the band were using headphones and double kick, and toms without eq kind of threw the whole band off in there headphone mix. So, I eq'd everything to portray a live situation and that helped to keep them tight in the headphone mix but that also went to tape with the eq. I am wondering I have a Mackie 24/8 and there is a mix b bus.Can I use the mix b bus with full eq control and send that to the cans and monitors while recording without eq? Then on playback after the session use "eq in" on each channel strip that I applied eq to in the cans so they will hear the tape playback with the eq settings they had in there cans?This way in there cans during recording there hearing what they want to hear than on playback there hearing what they want to hear all the while eq is not on the tape? Sorry, when I bought the board the owner's manual was missing and mackie manuals tend to be more confusing than helpful.Anyway's, I used a d112 for kick, at4041 hi hat, sm57 snare,toms1,2,3, octava mc012's for overheads xy configuration and Thursday I think I'm going to place the overheads farther apart over the cymbals as to pick up more of the cymbals than toms and the rest of the kit considering the toms and everything else are already miced.
knownuttin
New member
Replying to the original post, I suggest using the over-the-shoulder technique taught by the part-time pope Harvey Gerst. His illustration shows how to use it for acoustic guitars, but I apply it the same way: several inches to the right of the drummer's right ear. The idea is to get the drummer's perspective of the whole kit as he "mixes" it. The kick and snare mics are supplemental in this scheme. PS-yes this is mono. Stereo drums in rock and roll are mostly lost on the average listener.
If you must have more cymbals, you could still put up an overhead. If you're limited on inputs as it sounds (4 right?), I'd take someone else's earlier suggestion and stick another dynamic near the beater on the kick, though you may need to flip the phase switch. Regardless, experiment with different positioning on the mic you've got inside the shell. You may need to get closer to the head and angle away from the snare.
And don't forget to angle the snare away from the cymbals!
If you must have more cymbals, you could still put up an overhead. If you're limited on inputs as it sounds (4 right?), I'd take someone else's earlier suggestion and stick another dynamic near the beater on the kick, though you may need to flip the phase switch. Regardless, experiment with different positioning on the mic you've got inside the shell. You may need to get closer to the head and angle away from the snare.
And don't forget to angle the snare away from the cymbals!