Micin' a snare

[MadHatterTCM]

I learned a cool trick and I was wondering how common this is or what you guys think about it.

I've gotten a really good sound from normal mic placement on a snare, but also, adding a small condensor at the hole to pick up the air. Mixed in well it gives the snare a nice sound. Supposedly this is how the snare on the frays album was done. If you listen to "how to save a life" at the very end you can kinda hear what I'm talking about

 

[scrubs]

I've used a port-hole mic - gives a more "crackly pop" without all the extra rattle of an underside mic, imo.

 

[mrface2112]

watch out for that POOF of air coming out the hole, but other than that, yes, i've used this to great success in the past too. try different spots on the shell--you'll get a different tone depending on where you are in relation to the strainer, etc.

i find this side micing technique to be very handy when doing a song with a cross-stick beat. really helps in getting some meat back in the "tick".


cheers,
wade

 

[mystasynasta]

does anyone have a picture example of how to do this? im interested to know. when putting a mic underneath it sounds too crackly. When i use only the top one it does capture the sound of the actual snares enough. do you think using a condenser on top would help catch those higher frequencies?

 

[iancl]

I've never actually tried this. I liked two mics for about a week, and then went back to one (partly because I got a second snare, and moved the second mic to that - but also because I just thought two mics was unnecessary with good positioning). I'll have to try again I think, since I haven't done it in a long time. Side-micing definitely seems to make sense. Pick up the drum sound as a whole slightly more than top/bottom micing. I'm sure mixing could help me come up with some nicer snare sounds!

 

[mystasynasta]

iancl, was it a condenser underneath or dynamic?

 

[iancl]

Sorry, was what a condenser?

When I used to do it, I had a dynamic underneath. It was a Beta57. The only problem really was that I was using mic clips for almost every close mic, not having enough stands. That limited the positioning possibilities for me, and since I was using a stand for the top mic, I couldn't use a stand to move the Beta57 to the shell rather than the bottom.

I'd originally bought an NT-3 for the bottom (speaking of condensers), thinking of the 'extra detail' of the snare wires! DUH! Overloaded the mic totally. Luckily, I was allowed to take it back, and got the Beta57, plus a little bit of store credit for I forget what exactly - possibly the mic stand I used on the top mic, in fact!

I think for other kinds of music, when the drummer wouldn't be smacking the hell out of the snare, a condenser might be the better option. Just gotta make sure it's not too loud.

Also, one thing is that the Beta57 runs a REALLY hot signal to my mixer. Occasionally, with pre-gain entirely down, it still peaks on a really loud hit.

 

[iancl]

does anyone have a picture example of how to do this? im interested to know. when putting a mic underneath it sounds too crackly. When i use only the top one it does capture the sound of the actual snares enough. do you think using a condenser on top would help catch those higher frequencies?

Do you mean is DOESN'T capture the sound of the wires when you only use one mic?

If it does, then what do you need to change?

 

[MadHatterTCM]

watch out for that POOF of air coming out the hole, but other than that, yes, i've used this to great success in the past too.

Yeah, I use a small condensor for it which had a good SPL (is that correct?) against that the air and placed about a 2 inches away from the hole.
And as far as micing goes, honestly I sampled a gretsch snare that I have doing that technique and about 4 other mics dynamic and condensor and when I record a kit I just use 1 mic on the snare and drumagog with those samples. Honestly, because of the airy sound it produced I like my personal sample then a lot of the samples that you'd spend $200+ on.

 

[MadHatterTCM]

does anyone have a picture example of how to do this? im interested to know. when putting a mic underneath it sounds too crackly. When i use only the top one it does capture the sound of the actual snares enough. do you think using a condenser on top would help catch those higher frequencies?

Like I mentioned in my other post, for the hole thing: I used a small condensor, about 2 inches away from the snare hole.

And yes, if done right, a condensor on the snare top can be done and sounds good. Also remember that alot of natural sound (and the higher frequencies) can be well captured with well mixed overheads.

here's a rough mix of something, but the snare is extra loud so you can kind of hear the sound I'm talking about. Mind you there is no verb on there snare, just the natural airy sound from the mic.

here's an mp3

 

[mystasynasta]

Do you mean is DOESN'T capture the sound of the wires when you only use one mic?

If it does, then what do you need to change?

Yes, i meant doesn't. I seem to just get the body of the drum without the higher snares against the bottom. I would really like to be able to mix the overheads separately for drummers who hit the cymbals too hard. It's tough to get the cymbals where they need to be when you are restricted to getting the snare to sound good through the overheads. i also am recording in a carpeted room and that seems to absorb the snare sound quite a bit. I figure if I can get a good snare sound with 2 or 3 mics ill be happy. then the overheads can be adjusted separately. I've been able to get a pretty good snare drum sound (listen on my myspace) so far it just takes alot of adjusting and mixing to get it just right. Most of my time mixing is spent trying to get the right sound.

Thanks guys!

 

[mrface2112]

I figure if I can get a good snare sound with 2 or 3 mics ill be happy.

well, getting a great drum sound with only 2 or 3 mics requires a good drummer who knows how to properly play and balance his kit, good well-tuned drums, a good sounding room and good mic placement technique. if any of those things are missing or lacking, you will find your drum tracks coming up a little short.

more often than not when it comes to home recording, it's a matter of compensating for one (or more) of those above things coming up short.

Most of my time mixing is spent trying to get the right sound.

if that's the case then you need to spend more time getting the sound right before punching the record button. mixing should be a simple process--push up the faders, flip the polarity on a couple channels and sweeten to taste. the basic "sound" should already be there, provided you've done good tracking.

please note that i'm not trying to talk smack or anything.....i'm just trying to help. it just sounds to me like you need to take some more time in "getting sounds" before punching the record button, that's all.


cheers,
wade

 

[iancl]

I think he means 2-3 mics ON THE SNARE.

 

[mystasynasta]

yeah 2-3 mics on the snare. my room does not sound too bad that i track in. a little dead though. Again what i want to do is get good sound from just the snare mics so that the overhead mics can be independent from them. The last band I had in the studio the snare sounded excellent in the room, and it sounded good when tracking also. But as I was mixing and being a little more critical, i noticed that the bottom mic had way too much crackle and it did not sound natural with the snare. The top mic did not capture the sound of the snares almost at all, just the body of the drum. If I boosted the highs to regain the snares on the bottom then it boosted the hi hat leakage too much. I think it has a lot to do with the mic i chose on top. Im going to try a few other ideas and experiment to find another mic with a tighter pick up pattern and i am going to experiment with placement of the condenser so that it still picks up the snares but not so close to pick up the nasty crackly sound. Any other ideas would be appreciated. SORRY I DID NOT MEAN TO HIGH JACK THIS THREAD! i just found it useful. thanks guys.

 

[Schloo]

I would not listen to that song again to save my dick from falling off.

 

[mystasynasta]

which song? how to save a life?