Mic without proximity effect for vocals?

Nola

Nola

Well-known member
how do you feel about using a mic without proximity effect for a vocal? is it good or bad?
the mic is an re-11
 
I'm guessing such a mic would be designed to attenuate the low mids, like an SM57 that is optimized for close micing. Problem is, you're stuck with that attenuation. For home recording, why not just back away as Greg_L said?
 
One thing I really like about using an EV RE20 is that the singer can work the mic, use distance to control volume, and it doesn't really change tone. Most standard vocal mics do change tone somewhat when the singer moves in or out. EV makes a couple of other mics with minimized proximity effect.

Lately I've been using the omnidirectional pattern to record vocals. The room I use allows for this but it may not work so well in a more acoustically adverse situation.
 
Greg_L said:
Lol. What? Just back away.
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Robus said:
I'm guessing such a mic would be designed to attenuate the low mids, like an SM57 that is optimized for close micing. Problem is, you're stuck with that attenuation. For home recording, why not just back away as Greg_L said?
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Not sure that's the question.
Some mics have reduced proximity effect design. Akg made some and a lot, if not all, of the Electrovoice RE line have it. Variable-D...I think someone else said that.

The 57 is really optimised for off axis rejection and durability. In the real world it's just a solid straight forward cardioid dynamic (with proximity effect).


OP, in short, that mic won't get all boomy if you get very close to it.
If your singer works the mic well and doesn't want the tone to change, that's good. If your singer wants to move in close for that bassier more intimate sound then that's bad.
 
thanks guys yeah that's what i mean if the Variable-D would cause problems like making my voice too thin or accentuating weird frequencies. maybe i need a new mic.

on some songs it worked okay but on the song i'm working on tonight it sounds thin and weird.
 
It shouldn't sound especially thin or weird, but you wont get pronounced bass up close.
If that's a feature you normally make use of then you'll want to stick with a conventional cardioid mic.

I have an re11 that I've literally never used. I'll check it out tomorrow if I get time. :)
It's a well respected mic. I went buck-daft buying electrovoice mics a few years ago and never use any of them. :(

I bought an old tape recorder on ebay because I spied that electrovoice/battleship grey in the background of the picture.
It turned out to be 4 (unmentioned) mint do54s. I sold the tape player on it's for more than I paid and kept the mics. ;)
 
Steenamaroo said:
It shouldn't sound especially thin or weird, but you wont get pronounced bass up close.
If that's a feature you normally make use of then you'll want to stick with a conventional cardioid mic.

I have an re11 that I've literally never used. I'll check it out tomorrow if I get time. :)
It's a well respected mic. I went buck-daft buying electrovoice mics a few years ago and never use any of them. :(

I bought an old tape recorder on ebay because I spied that electrovoice/battleship grey in the background of the picture.
It turned out to be 4 (unmentioned) mint do54s. I sold the tape player on it's for more than I paid and kept the mics. ;)
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those re-11s have doubled in price in just a few years i think it's message boards like this. i got mine years ago cheap and now they sell for like $100 each.

i really love the re-11 but it wasn't working for me tonight.
 
Another perspective,,
For 'live in the studio, or just a good all rounder for many recording things, the RE-20's are my flat out go-to's. It works very well in that it's fairly neutral -which means ok for most voices**, can work up on (good for isolation) or off a bit w/o the tone getting too weird or changing much like most mics.
For my vocal 'live gig experience -RE16, it was ok, but I went back to normal mics (currently 767, 967, or OM5's).
I hate the over blown low freq crap that can be had (often heard) of these typical type live voc mics, but that can be mitigated by simply setting sensible pa/tone balancing. So for me that was the full circle- have the proximity effect, but keep the low end in check.

**..no mic is 'great' for all voices.
The RE20 has a bit of odd top 'crinkle tone to it (8k or so?), but not the typical 5-6k peaky' rise of a lot of mics.
 
Nola said:
those re-11s have doubled in price in just a few years i think it's message boards like this. i got mine years ago cheap and now they sell for like $100 each.

i really love the re-11 but it wasn't working for me tonight.
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I did a 'live vocal mics test' for a few friends last week looking to pick one out they liked (in their house w/ pa etc- acoustic electric so not a loud band.
Good for me too as I got to hear them w/o being the one singing.
One picked the OM5 (surprised me :), the other, Sen 935.
By comparison to all the others, the RE16 came off kind of 'blah - Less low end/warmth- perhaps as expected, but not very interesting in the mids-up either.
We didn't try to re-balance/optimize tone for each mic. We could have for RE16..
But that brings up another point ('maybe, 'likely'...)
When you 'show up with a mic that is quite different than 'the norm', are you less likely to have (or get) systems 'dialed in for that mic?
My guess is yes.
 
mixsit said:
Another perspective,,
For 'live in the studio, or just a good all rounder for many recording things, the RE-20's are my flat out go-to's. It works very well in that it's fairly neutral -which means ok for most voices**, can work up on (good for isolation) or off a bit w/o the tone getting too weird or changing much like most mics.
For my vocal 'live gig experience -RE16, it was ok, but I went back to normal mics (currently 767, 967, or OM5's).
I hate the over blown low freq crap that can be had (often heard) of these typical type live voc mics, but that can be mitigated by simply setting sensible pa/tone balancing. So for me that was the full circle- have the proximity effect, but keep the low end in check.

**..no mic is 'great' for all voices.
The RE20 has a bit of odd top 'crinkle tone to it (8k or so?), but not the typical 5-6k peaky' rise of a lot of mics.
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that's interesting mixsit.
the re-16 or re-15, i forget which, was just the re-11s that didn't meet factory specs so they were cheaper. so that's the same mic basically. it's real good and i kinda like it more than the sm57s (i sold mine and kept the re-11). i heard those re-20s are great but i don't have money for a mic right now.
 
Live vocal mics always need channel eq if the PA's overall response is right. Stage volume necessitates proximity to the mic which causes proximity effect. Cutting lows is normal to get a natural tonal balance, and it has the added benefit of reducing plosives. Actually, I've done the tests and singing on the grill (of a ball mic like the SM58) causes less plosive noise than singing off the grill unless you're so far that you can aim your plosives past the mic rather than at it, and then you're too far for a live rock band.
 
For a mic. without proximity effect - use an omni, they don't have any proximity effect.

The cardioid AKG D202, D222 and D224 had virtually no proximity effect - they had a separate capsule for the bass and rear entry slots and the bass capsule was so far away from the source there was almost no proximity effect.
 
John Willett said:
For a mic. without proximity effect - use an omni, they don't have any proximity effect.

The cardioid AKG D202, D222 and D224 had virtually no proximity effect - they had a separate capsule for the bass and rear entry slots and the bass capsule was so far away from the source there was almost no proximity effect.
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So that's how AKG did that! I was aware of some of theirs having dual caps but didn't get that one was set back- or for that reason.
:)
The last I heard one of that series was a podium at an NPR gathering. The effect was very cool- nice not-hyped tone, and very forgiving of the various folks 'eating it -or not.
 
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My 835's have quite a pronounced proximity effect - very similar to a 58. I noted John's comments on the AKGs, and I have some 202s, and never ever thought about using them for vocals. I have an EV RE320, and it's OK for vocals, but not my preferred my for singing. Great for speaking though.
 
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